frames question for xpert

P

Patrick

Hi experts,

I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame view.
The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored) margins
and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's like
that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once. Here is the
frameset index file:

/*entire index.htm file */

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Frameset//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Computer Parts Source.com</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<FRAMESET border=0 frameSpacing=0 rows=5000,* frameBorder=0>
<FRAME src="cpsv1.htm">
<FRAME src="about:blank"></FRAMESET></HTML>

*/ top part of cpsv1 */

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>ComputerPartsSource.com</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<LINK href="cps.css" type=text/css rel=stylesheet>

Most of the rest of the code is tables that set up top and lefthand menus.
But these tables have width=100% and yet are NOT 100% of the screen. Why not
is my q? The middle of the page is blank for new items etc.

The site may or may not be up right now: http://www.computerpartssource.com

TIA,
Patrick
psully at eatel dot net
 
S

Steve Pugh

Patrick said:
I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame view.
The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored) margins
and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's like
that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once.
Click to expand...

It's probably like that because whoever designed it doesn't understand
the web as a medium.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Frameset//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Computer Parts Source.com</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<FRAMESET border=0 frameSpacing=0 rows=5000,* frameBorder=0>
<FRAME src="cpsv1.htm">
<FRAME src="about:blank"></FRAMESET></HTML>
Click to expand...

Pointless. You have one frame that's 5000px tall and then one frame
that uses all the remaining space. You'd be better off dropping the
frames altogether, they do nothing at all.
*/ top part of cpsv1 */

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>ComputerPartsSource.com</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<LINK href="cps.css" type=text/css rel=stylesheet>

Most of the rest of the code is tables that set up top and lefthand menus.
But these tables have width=100% and yet are NOT 100% of the screen. Why not
is my q? The middle of the page is blank for new items etc.

The site may or may not be up right now: http://www.computerpartssource.com
Click to expand...

Because the tables have an empty cell on the left and right and then
all the content is in a 770px wide cell in the middle.

Drop the frames, drop the tables, drop the fixed width, do it
properly.

Steve
 
J

JDS

Because the tables have an empty cell on the left and right and then
all the content is in a 770px wide cell in the middle.

Drop the frames, drop the tables, drop the fixed width, do it
properly.

Steve
Click to expand...

To clarify, the content frame -- the only frame with anything in it -- can
be used and *just* that frame. It is already an independent HTML page.

So get rid of the frameset entirely and just use the page in the middle,
which, by my estimation, is http://68.148.3.127/public_html/index.php

Not sure why the frameset loads a page that resides on a
numerically-addressed site, but my guess is *that* is why frames were used
-- to obfuscate the actual page location. Just a guess.
 
M

mscir

Patrick said:
Hi experts,

I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame view.
The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored) margins
and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's like
that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once. Here is the
frameset index file:
Click to expand...

<table border="0" width="770" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
height="120" bgcolor="#A2C0E4" align='center'>

To keep the existing layout, try changing 770.
Mike
 
K

Karl Core

mscir said:
<table border="0" width="770" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" height="120"
bgcolor="#A2C0E4" align='center'>

To keep the existing layout, try changing 770.
Click to expand...

Please do not give out any more HTML advice. Ever.
 
P

Patrick

Ok, crossposting is ok if done with cc, I never heard of that. I just could
not see any of my messages anywhere.
 
M

mscir

Karl said:
Please do not give out any more HTML advice. Ever.
Click to expand...

Why do you say that?

If he couldn't find out why the width was fixed, he's probably pretty
much of a beginner with HTML and has his hands full right now. I debated
whether I should suggest he learn CSS but it didn't seem appropriate. I
learned what CSS I do know after I became comfortable with HTML, maybe
that doesn't work for everybody but it worked for me, assuming this has
anything at all to do with your comment.

Mike
 
R

rf

mscir said:
Why do you say that?
Click to expand...

Mr Core is one of those who has determined that tables are for tabular data
only and if you use one otherwise you will suffer eternal damnation :)
If he couldn't find out why the width was fixed, he's probably pretty
much of a beginner with HTML and has his hands full right now. I debated
whether I should suggest he learn CSS but it didn't seem appropriate. I
learned what CSS I do know after I became comfortable with HTML, maybe
that doesn't work for everybody but it worked for me, assuming this has
anything at all to do with your comment.
Click to expand...

FWIW I concur with your assessment. If someone is trying to learn how to
build a sand castle you don't hand him a front end loader.
 
D

Duende

While sitting in a puddle rf scribbled in the mud:
FWIW I concur with your assessment. If someone is trying to learn how to
build a sand castle you don't hand him a front end loader.
Click to expand...

You do if you want them to build you a BIG sand castle.
 
K

Karl Core

mscir said:
Why do you say that?

If he couldn't find out why the width was fixed, he's probably pretty much
of a beginner with HTML and has his hands full right now. I debated
whether I should suggest he learn CSS but it didn't seem appropriate. I
learned what CSS I do know after I became comfortable with HTML, maybe
that doesn't work for everybody but it worked for me, assuming this has
anything at all to do with your comment.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry. I thought the above snippet of markup was of your creation.
 
M

mscir

Karl said:
I'm sorry. I thought the above snippet of markup was of your creation.
Click to expand...

I thought about it a lot, whether I was giving lame advice, and I have
to agree I could have given a lot better answer. e.g. recommend that the
OP eventually try the following:

1. validate the HTML:
http://validator.w3.org/
2. learn CSS and format all page elements w/CSS
3. validate the CSS:
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator-uri.html
4. don't use frames:
http://www.apptools.com/rants/framesevil.php
5. don't use tables for layout:
http://www.saila.com/usage/layouts/cssvtables.shtml
http://glish.com/css/
http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts
6. usa a more liquid approach: variable table width:
http://www.mvd.com/webguide/style2.shtml

I didn't want to appear to be coming down too hard on a beginner, but I
think I did him a disservice by not giving a more comprehensive answer.

Thanks,
Mike
 

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