frames question for xpert

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Patrick, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. Patrick

    Patrick Guest

    Hi experts,

    I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
    have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame view.
    The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored) margins
    and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's like
    that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once. Here is the
    frameset index file:

    /*entire index.htm file */

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Frameset//EN">
    <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Computer Parts Source.com</TITLE>
    <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
    <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
    <FRAMESET border=0 frameSpacing=0 rows=5000,* frameBorder=0>
    <FRAME src="cpsv1.htm">
    <FRAME src="about:blank"></FRAMESET></HTML>

    */ top part of cpsv1 */

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
    <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>ComputerPartsSource.com</TITLE>
    <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
    <LINK href="cps.css" type=text/css rel=stylesheet>

    Most of the rest of the code is tables that set up top and lefthand menus.
    But these tables have width=100% and yet are NOT 100% of the screen. Why not
    is my q? The middle of the page is blank for new items etc.

    The site may or may not be up right now: http://www.computerpartssource.com

    TIA,
    Patrick
    psully at eatel dot net
    Patrick, Feb 16, 2005
    #1
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  2. Patrick

    Steve Pugh Guest

    "Patrick" <> wrote:

    >I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
    >have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame view.
    >The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored) margins
    >and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's like
    >that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once.


    It's probably like that because whoever designed it doesn't understand
    the web as a medium.

    ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Frameset//EN">
    ><HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Computer Parts Source.com</TITLE>
    ><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
    ><META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
    ><FRAMESET border=0 frameSpacing=0 rows=5000,* frameBorder=0>
    ><FRAME src="cpsv1.htm">
    ><FRAME src="about:blank"></FRAMESET></HTML>


    Pointless. You have one frame that's 5000px tall and then one frame
    that uses all the remaining space. You'd be better off dropping the
    frames altogether, they do nothing at all.

    >*/ top part of cpsv1 */
    >
    ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
    ><HTML><HEAD><TITLE>ComputerPartsSource.com</TITLE>
    ><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
    ><LINK href="cps.css" type=text/css rel=stylesheet>
    >
    >Most of the rest of the code is tables that set up top and lefthand menus.
    >But these tables have width=100% and yet are NOT 100% of the screen. Why not
    >is my q? The middle of the page is blank for new items etc.
    >
    >The site may or may not be up right now: http://www.computerpartssource.com


    Because the tables have an empty cell on the left and right and then
    all the content is in a 770px wide cell in the middle.

    Drop the frames, drop the tables, drop the fixed width, do it
    properly.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Feb 16, 2005
    #2
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  3. Patrick

    JDS Guest

    On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:37:34 +0000, Steve Pugh wrote:

    > Because the tables have an empty cell on the left and right and then
    > all the content is in a 770px wide cell in the middle.
    >
    > Drop the frames, drop the tables, drop the fixed width, do it
    > properly.
    >
    > Steve


    To clarify, the content frame -- the only frame with anything in it -- can
    be used and *just* that frame. It is already an independent HTML page.

    So get rid of the frameset entirely and just use the page in the middle,
    which, by my estimation, is http://68.148.3.127/public_html/index.php

    Not sure why the frameset loads a page that resides on a
    numerically-addressed site, but my guess is *that* is why frames were used
    -- to obfuscate the actual page location. Just a guess.

    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
    JDS, Feb 16, 2005
    #3
  4. Patrick

    Dave Patton Guest

    Dave Patton, Feb 16, 2005
    #4
  5. Patrick

    mscir Guest

    Patrick wrote:
    > Hi experts,
    >
    > I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
    > have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame view.
    > The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored) margins
    > and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's like
    > that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once. Here is the
    > frameset index file:


    <table border="0" width="770" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
    height="120" bgcolor="#A2C0E4" align='center'>

    To keep the existing layout, try changing 770.
    Mike
    mscir, Feb 17, 2005
    #5
  6. Patrick

    Karl Core Guest

    "mscir" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Patrick wrote:
    >> Hi experts,
    >>
    >> I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
    >> have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame view.
    >> The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored)
    >> margins
    >> and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's
    >> like
    >> that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once. Here is the
    >> frameset index file:

    >
    > <table border="0" width="770" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" height="120"
    > bgcolor="#A2C0E4" align='center'>
    >
    > To keep the existing layout, try changing 770.


    Please do not give out any more HTML advice. Ever.


    --
    Karl Core
    Hell To Pay, Baltimore Hardcore: http://www.eightninethree.com
    Karl Core, Feb 17, 2005
    #6
  7. Patrick

    Patrick Guest

    Ok, crossposting is ok if done with cc, I never heard of that. I just could
    not see any of my messages anywhere.

    "Dave Patton" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns95FF9416A53EEmrzaphoddirectcaold@24.71.223.159...
    > "Patrick" <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > Hi experts,
    > >
    > > I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit.

    >
    > Answered in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
    >
    > What is the accepted way to share a message across multiple newsgroups?
    > http://smjg.port5.com/faqs/usenet/xpost.html
    >
    > --
    > Dave Patton
    > Canadian Coordinator, Degree Confluence Project
    > http://www.confluence.org/
    > My website: http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
    Patrick, Feb 17, 2005
    #7
  8. Patrick

    Duende Guest

    While sitting in a puddle Karl Core scribbled in the mud:

    >
    > "mscir" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> Patrick wrote:
    >>> Hi experts,
    >>>
    >>> I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit.
    >>> I have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame
    >>> view. The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but
    >>> colored) margins
    >>> and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure
    >>> it's like
    >>> that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once. Here is
    >>> the frameset index file:

    >>
    >> <table border="0" width="770" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
    >> height="120" bgcolor="#A2C0E4" align='center'>
    >>
    >> To keep the existing layout, try changing 770.

    >
    > Please do not give out any more HTML advice. Ever.
    >
    >


    Seems like the advice fits the question. :)

    --
    D?
    Adults die young.
    Duende, Feb 17, 2005
    #8
  9. Patrick

    mscir Guest

    Karl Core wrote:

    > "mscir" <> wrote in message
    >
    >>Patrick wrote:
    >>>Hi experts,
    >>>I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
    >>>have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame view.
    >>>The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored)
    >>>margins
    >>>and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's
    >>>like
    >>>that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once. Here is the
    >>>frameset index file:

    >>
    >><table border="0" width="770" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" height="120"
    >>bgcolor="#A2C0E4" align='center'>
    >>
    >>To keep the existing layout, try changing 770.

    >
    > Please do not give out any more HTML advice. Ever.


    Why do you say that?

    If he couldn't find out why the width was fixed, he's probably pretty
    much of a beginner with HTML and has his hands full right now. I debated
    whether I should suggest he learn CSS but it didn't seem appropriate. I
    learned what CSS I do know after I became comfortable with HTML, maybe
    that doesn't work for everybody but it worked for me, assuming this has
    anything at all to do with your comment.

    Mike
    mscir, Feb 17, 2005
    #9
  10. Patrick

    rf Guest

    "mscir" <> wrote

    > > Please do not give out any more HTML advice. Ever.

    >
    > Why do you say that?


    Mr Core is one of those who has determined that tables are for tabular data
    only and if you use one otherwise you will suffer eternal damnation :)

    > If he couldn't find out why the width was fixed, he's probably pretty
    > much of a beginner with HTML and has his hands full right now. I debated
    > whether I should suggest he learn CSS but it didn't seem appropriate. I
    > learned what CSS I do know after I became comfortable with HTML, maybe
    > that doesn't work for everybody but it worked for me, assuming this has
    > anything at all to do with your comment.


    FWIW I concur with your assessment. If someone is trying to learn how to
    build a sand castle you don't hand him a front end loader.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Feb 17, 2005
    #10
  11. Patrick

    Duende Guest

    While sitting in a puddle rf scribbled in the mud:

    > FWIW I concur with your assessment. If someone is trying to learn how to
    > build a sand castle you don't hand him a front end loader.


    You do if you want them to build you a BIG sand castle.

    --
    D?
    Adults die young.
    Duende, Feb 17, 2005
    #11
  12. Patrick

    Karl Core Guest

    "mscir" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Karl Core wrote:
    >
    >> "mscir" <> wrote in message
    >>>Patrick wrote:
    >>>>Hi experts,
    >>>>I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
    >>>>have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame
    >>>>view.
    >>>>The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored)
    >>>>margins
    >>>>and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's
    >>>>like
    >>>>that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once. Here is the
    >>>>frameset index file:
    >>>
    >>><table border="0" width="770" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
    >>>height="120" bgcolor="#A2C0E4" align='center'>
    >>>
    >>>To keep the existing layout, try changing 770.

    >>
    >> Please do not give out any more HTML advice. Ever.

    >
    > Why do you say that?
    >
    > If he couldn't find out why the width was fixed, he's probably pretty much
    > of a beginner with HTML and has his hands full right now. I debated
    > whether I should suggest he learn CSS but it didn't seem appropriate. I
    > learned what CSS I do know after I became comfortable with HTML, maybe
    > that doesn't work for everybody but it worked for me, assuming this has
    > anything at all to do with your comment.


    I'm sorry. I thought the above snippet of markup was of your creation.


    --
    Karl Core
    Hell To Pay, Baltimore Hardcore: http://www.eightninethree.com
    Karl Core, Feb 17, 2005
    #12
  13. Patrick

    mscir Guest

    Karl Core wrote:
    > "mscir" <> wrote in message
    >>Karl Core wrote:
    >>>"mscir" <> wrote in message
    >>>>Patrick wrote:
    >>>>>Hi experts,
    >>>>>I am trying to help a guy fix up an incomplete site, other coder quit. I
    >>>>>have a question about how the site narrows the main page in a frame
    >>>>>view.
    >>>>>The page is formatted to have large margins of blank (but colored)
    >>>>>margins
    >>>>>and is centered. I am using a 17" monitor at high res, so I figure it's
    >>>>>like
    >>>>>that so lesser resolutions can see the entire thing at once. Here is the
    >>>>>frameset index file:
    >>>>
    >>>><table border="0" width="770" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
    >>>>height="120" bgcolor="#A2C0E4" align='center'>
    >>>>
    >>>>To keep the existing layout, try changing 770.
    >>>
    >>>Please do not give out any more HTML advice. Ever.

    >>
    >>Why do you say that?
    >>
    >>If he couldn't find out why the width was fixed, he's probably pretty much
    >>of a beginner with HTML and has his hands full right now. I debated
    >>whether I should suggest he learn CSS but it didn't seem appropriate. I
    >>learned what CSS I do know after I became comfortable with HTML, maybe
    >>that doesn't work for everybody but it worked for me, assuming this has
    >>anything at all to do with your comment.

    >
    > I'm sorry. I thought the above snippet of markup was of your creation.


    I thought about it a lot, whether I was giving lame advice, and I have
    to agree I could have given a lot better answer. e.g. recommend that the
    OP eventually try the following:

    1. validate the HTML:
    http://validator.w3.org/
    2. learn CSS and format all page elements w/CSS
    3. validate the CSS:
    http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator-uri.html
    4. don't use frames:
    http://www.apptools.com/rants/framesevil.php
    5. don't use tables for layout:
    http://www.saila.com/usage/layouts/cssvtables.shtml
    http://glish.com/css/
    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts
    6. usa a more liquid approach: variable table width:
    http://www.mvd.com/webguide/style2.shtml

    I didn't want to appear to be coming down too hard on a beginner, but I
    think I did him a disservice by not giving a more comprehensive answer.

    Thanks,
    Mike
    mscir, Feb 17, 2005
    #13
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