frames question

D

Dene Wilby

Hi,

You're probably going to go 'aaaarrrggghhhh' at the massive amount of
useage of frames in this but can someone tell me why the pages looks
perfect in IE on my PC but when I look at it in Safari I get some white
areas that shouldn't be there.

http://www.gep.co.uk/iq/iq06test/

thanks

Dene
 
D

David Dorward

Dene said:
Hi,

You're probably going to go 'aaaarrrggghhhh' at the massive amount of
useage of frames in this

We go "aaaarrrghhhh" at _any_ use of frames. They are almost never a good
solution for a problem.
but can someone tell me why the pages looks
perfect in IE on my PC but when I look at it in Safari I get some white
areas that shouldn't be there.

As always, using real HTML is the starting point:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.gep.co.uk/iq/iq06test/
 
W

William Hughes

We go "aaaarrrghhhh" at _any_ use of frames. They are almost never a good
solution for a problem.

How about using IFRAME vice SSI, when your ISP does not enable SSI? Or
is there another way?
 
M

Mark Parnell

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, William Hughes
Hmm... looks like IFRAME is the only semi-reliable option at this
point.

Preprocessing is always reliable and always available.
 
W

William Hughes

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, William Hughes


Preprocessing is always reliable and always available.

True, but there are disk-space limitations to consider...
 
D

David Dorward

True, but there are disk-space limitations to consider...

Given the size of an HTML document compared to other media types, it is very
rare that this should be significant (although heavily presentational
markup can have some impact, but this can be resolved through the use of
current authoring standards rather then those used before the turn turn of
the century).
 
A

Auggie

William Hughes said:
True, but there are disk-space limitations to consider...

Unless you are running the site off a 1.44 floppy there isn't.

By preprocessing what he means is all your SSI and server side scripting
would be compiled and HTML pages would be generated. This doesn't mean that
image and media files used by the site are duplicated over and over again.

HTML is raw ascii text, meaning that 1024 characters is 1KB... If all your
HTML pages were exactly 80 characters wide you would need 13,000 lines of
HTML to fill up 1MB
 
W

William Hughes

Unless you are running the site off a 1.44 floppy there isn't.

By preprocessing what he means is all your SSI and server side scripting
would be compiled and HTML pages would be generated. This doesn't mean that
image and media files used by the site are duplicated over and over again.

I've been working with HTML for about 7 years. My programming degree
is 16 years old (class of '90).
HTML is raw ascii text, meaning that 1024 characters is 1KB... If all your
HTML pages were exactly 80 characters wide you would need 13,000 lines of
HTML to fill up 1MB

I have a 20mb limit on the personal webspace allocated by Grande. As
it currently stands, my site runs in excess of 300 pages with the
primary included file - the navigation system - taking approximately
15k. 15k x 300 files = 4.5 meg, a not-inconsiderable amount.
 
M

Mark Parnell

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, William Hughes
primary included file - the navigation system - taking approximately
15k.

That's a huge file for nothing but a menu.
 
A

Adrienne Boswell

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed William Hughes
It's a big menu. See url below...

I would suggest shortening it, and using submenus. That's a lot for the
user to have to wade through. You could use a breadcrumb trail so users
don't get lost.
 
W

William Hughes

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed William Hughes


I would suggest shortening it, and using submenus. That's a lot for the
user to have to wade through. You could use a breadcrumb trail so users
don't get lost.

Breadcrumbs I got - the colored bars at the top of each page. I'm
still debating whether or not to make them links, and maybe combine
them into a single bar.

As for submenus, I've thought about that as well. I'd like to avoid
using java, which limits my options. I'm also trying to avoid forcing
the user to have to click-through a number of pages; Home *click*
World at War *click* Fleet Carriers *click* Essex-class *click* CV-9
USS Essex.

Perhaps combining them in some way with the breadcrumbs...

(Some minutes later)

I have set up several ideas at
http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv09x.htm .
See http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv09.htm for the same page
without the new sections.

Needless to say, these are rough ideas; there will be some tweaking
involved before they are finished.

Using any of these options seems to indicate the elimination of all
but the top-level (boldface) lines from the main menu, which would
also eliminate the additional scrolling area.

There also seems to be a lot of repeated code included in any of these
options, which involves the space penalty that I am trying to avoid in
the first place. How about using IFRAME for the detailed section
submenu at the bottom of the page? Also, how about moving the
background image section from the left column to the submenu?

These pages give some idea of what a completed page will look like,
with content, images & references, but without the changes under
discussion here:

http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv01.htm
http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv02class.htm
http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv02.htm
 
A

Adrienne Boswell

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed William Hughes
Breadcrumbs I got - the colored bars at the top of each page. I'm
still debating whether or not to make them links, and maybe combine
them into a single bar.

As for submenus, I've thought about that as well. I'd like to avoid
using java, which limits my options. I'm also trying to avoid forcing
the user to have to click-through a number of pages; Home *click*
World at War *click* Fleet Carriers *click* Essex-class *click* CV-9
USS Essex.

Perhaps combining them in some way with the breadcrumbs...

(Some minutes later)

I have set up several ideas at
http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv09x.htm .
See http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv09.htm for the same page
without the new sections.

Have a look at <http://www.hfglendale.org/shea.asp>. Notice the menu on
the left. It is a collapseable menu, no javascript required. The menu
also gives a visual indication that you are on the that page in the menu.
 
A

Adrienne Boswell

William Hughes wote:
Mmm... might work. I'll have to do some research to see how something
like that is done.

View the source and the CSS. If you need it, I will share the server
side stuff.
 
W

William Hughes

William Hughes wote:

View the source and the CSS. If you need it, I will share the server
side stuff.

Which CSS? A glance at the source of the page indicates about six. :)
I got the page source and the style.css; I'll pick 'em apart this
weekend.

And while this idea may reduce screen space used, it seems it will
only _increase_ the size of the menu file from the current 15k, which
seems to be an issue.

I'm interested in opinions regarding the inclusion of a
section-specific submenu at the bottom of each page, as shown in the
example page referenced a couple of messages upthread. One of the
examples is written into the page itself; the other is an IFRAME file.
I like the IFRAME, since the menu only needs to exist in a single
file. The example shown uses DIVs; it could also be rendered as a
two-cell table.
 
W

William Hughes

View the source and the CSS. If you need it, I will share the server
side stuff.

Oh, a couple of things I neglected to mention in my earlier reply:

"Server side stuff"? If it involves any server-side activity, I can't
use it. That's the source of my current problem; my ISP will not
activate any server-side functions for personal webspace.

Also, I noticed that selecting expand on your menu takes you to the
top-level page for that section. I'm not sure that this is a good
thing in my application. If I could expand without changing the page
displayed, it might work. Like I said, I'll look at the code this
weekend.
 

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