Frames trouble

[Paul Weikel]

Hello,

I'm new to this newsgroup so I should probably introduce myself. My
name is Paul. I currently live in beautiful northern Wyoming. I am
a freelance graphics artist and graduate from Purdue Universities Computer
Graphics Technology program. I specialize in 3D animation and have a
limited background in Multimedia.

Okay.. Now to my question

Im using 4 frames on a website, setup like this:
|| ||======2======
|| 1||======3======
|| ||
|| ||======4======
|| ||=============

I'm having a problem with frame 3 (my text/content frame) bleeding into
my header (frame 2) when the browser is resized smaller then the graphics on
screen. Frame 1 remains fine, even when i drag the right side of the
browser all the way to the left, nothing bleeds. What i need to do is
stablize frame 3 so that it will stay in its position and so that it will
not resize horizontalliy or vertically when the browser is adjusted. here
is a link to the website so that you can see for yourself what the problem
is exactly:

http://snow.prohosting.com/weikelp/test/cODE/Index.html

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

TIA,
paul

 

[Tina - AffordableHOST.com]

Hello,

I'm new to this newsgroup so I should probably introduce myself. My
name is Paul. I currently live in beautiful northern Wyoming. I am
a freelance graphics artist and graduate from Purdue Universities Computer
Graphics Technology program. I specialize in 3D animation and have a
limited background in Multimedia.

Welcome!

Okay.. Now to my question

Im using 4 frames on a website, setup like this: What i need to do is
stablize frame 3 so that it will stay in its position and so that it will
not resize horizontalliy or vertically when the browser is adjusted.

Scrap the frames. ;-)

Seriously, I looked at your site and I'm not seeing any REAL reason to keep
the frames? It would look alot more professional without them. To me,
frames scream "hobby designer circa 1995"

--Tina

 

[Paul Weikel]

Scrap the frames. ;-)

Seriously, I looked at your site and I'm not seeing any REAL reason to keep
the frames? It would look alot more professional without them. To me,
frames scream "hobby designer circa 1995"

Okay, maybe they do seem less professional, but its pretty obvious that my
site is graphically intensive and I dont want to have to have my user
re-downoad the menu each time he/she goes to another page. I like the way
frames encapsulate all the information into one defined area and how the
menu navigation system and header is static.

Yes, I realize this can be done with CSS (only with the help of Javascript)
but it doesn't work nearly as smoothly (i.e. choppy menu jitters when
scrolling).

I'd like to stick with my frames, so if there is anyone out there that knows
how to stablize the frame that I am having trouble with, please let me know.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[e n | c k m a]

I'd like to stick with my frames, so if there is anyone out there that knows
how to stablize the frame that I am having trouble with, please let me know.

I don't think you'll find much help for that here...

 

[Paul Weikel]

I don't think you'll find much help for that here...

Frame are still HTML code... what is all this anti-frame speak all about?

 

[e n | c k m a]

Frame are still HTML code... what is all this anti-frame speak all about?

I don't remember any links that could help you right now. Try a google
search for something along the lines of "Why Frames Suck". See what you
come up with.

Nick.

 

[David Dorward]

Okay, maybe they do seem less professional, but its pretty obvious that my
site is graphically intensive and I dont want to have to have my user
re-downoad the menu each time he/she goes to another page.

http://www.mnot.net/cache_docs/

(BTW - your images aren't showing up for me - probably something to do with
the syntax errors in your HTML and your backwards slashes in your URIs)

 

[David Dorward]

Frame are still HTML code... what is all this anti-frame speak all about?

Frames don't appear in the latest (X)HTML specification.
They introduce a large number of problems, http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
has some pointers.

 

[Nico Schuyt]

I'm having a problem with frame 3 (my text/content frame) bleeding
into my header (frame 2) when the browser is resized smaller then the
graphics on screen.
http://snow.prohosting.com/weikelp/test/cODE/Index.html

I see no problem (IE5.5)
Bu look at http://snow.prohosting.com/weikelp/test/cODE/intro.html
Problem is called 'orphaned pages'. This is what happens when people find
links to your site in a search engine. At least place a link to your frame
set on every page.
Validate the pages in http://validator.w3.org/
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://snow.prohosting.com/weikelp
%2Ftest%2FcODE%2Fintro.html
(Watch the wrap)
Regards, Nico

 

[Els]

Okay, maybe they do seem less professional, but its pretty obvious that my
site is graphically intensive and I dont want to have to have my user
re-downoad the menu each time he/she goes to another page. I like the way
frames encapsulate all the information into one defined area and how the
menu navigation system and header is static.

That's what I thought first, but the reloading of header and
menu is not as bad as you would think. They're already in
the browser's cache after the first page.
I am currently changing a website with frames:
http://www.mediatech.nl/~rachel/index.html to a frameless
version, where I call the header and menu (and some other
stuff) with php <? include "otherfile.html"; ?>
See if you think stuff is reloaded too slowly:
http://www.mediatech.nl/~rachel/Frameless/index.html
(only the menu links 'home' 'live pictures' and 'music'
work, and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th imagelinks on the 'live
pictures'-page)

In IE, the page is reloaded, but quickly, because of the
cache, but in Netscape, at least on my screen, it looks
exactly as if frames were used.. only the content part is
being changed. or so it seems.

Yes, I realize this can be done with CSS (only with the help of Javascript)
but it doesn't work nearly as smoothly (i.e. choppy menu jitters when
scrolling).

Don't know about that, am not using any Javascript.

I'd like to stick with my frames, so if there is anyone out there that knows
how to stablize the frame that I am having trouble with, please let me know.

That has to do with the sizes you define for your frames.
You have <frameset rows="117,270, *" frameborder=0
framespacing=0>. This means, that you 'give' 117 to the
first, 270 to the second, and whatever's left, to the third
frame. (leaving the menu out of this ;-))
This works, as long as there is at least 388 to divide.
As soon as there is less, it will be divided equally, so if
there would be for instance only 300, the frames would 'get'
respectively 146, 208, and ... nothing.
So, if you want the header to be static, and the rest
flexible, try <frameset rows="117,*,*" frameborder=0
framespacing=0>
But if you want the 2nd frame (your 3rd, that is) to be
static as well as the header... Maybe have <frameset
rows="117,*" frameborder=0 framespacing=0>
and then divide that second frame again in two frames,
dividing them as rows="270,*".
Am not sure if this will completely solve the problem, as
horizontally, things will still be resizeable.

As you can see, on the first site I mentioned, all of the
frames are static, except the content one, which you can see
by choosing guestbook from the menu, but that's done by
putting everything together in an inline frame with fixed
width and height.

So from all of the above: remember one thing: get rid of the
frames, and make life easier ;-)

Thanks,

You're welcome.

 

[Michael Weber]

Hi Paul,

[Tue, 02 Sep 2003 06:12:16 GMT/Paul Weikel]

Okay, maybe they do seem less professional, but its pretty obvious that my
site is graphically intensive and I dont want to have to have my user
re-downoad the menu each time he/she goes to another page. I like the way
frames encapsulate all the information into one defined area and how the
menu navigation system and header is static.

Yes, I realize this can be done with CSS (only with the help of Javascript)
but it doesn't work nearly as smoothly (i.e. choppy menu jitters when
scrolling).

I'd like to stick with my frames, so if there is anyone out there that knows
how to stablize the frame that I am having trouble with, please let me know.

"<frameset rows="117,270, *"..."

Sorry, this is bullshit.

<frameset cols="135,*"
<frame src...
<frameset rows="117,*,50"...

will solve your prob. It is not the content frame that flows into
your header, it is the fixed size of your footer frame. Drop the
footer or give it a small size like 50.


regs
michael

 

[Michael Weber]

[Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:08:29 +0200/Michael Weber]

will solve your prob. It is not the content frame that flows into
your header, it is the fixed size of your footer frame. Drop the
footer or give it a small size like 50.

Nope, its the fixed size of the content one...

 

[JT]

Im using 4 frames on a website, setup like this:
|| ||======2======
|| 1||======3======
|| ||
|| ||======4======
|| ||=============

I'm having a problem with frame 3 (my text/content frame) bleeding into
my header (frame 2) when the browser is resized smaller then the graphics on
screen. Frame 1 remains fine, even when i drag the right side of the
browser all the way to the left, nothing bleeds. What i need to do is
stablize frame 3 so that it will stay in its position and so that it will
not resize horizontalliy or vertically when the browser is adjusted. here
is a link to the website so that you can see for yourself what the problem
is exactly:

Hi Paul - look at Michael Webber's contribution below. Definately drop the
'frame 4' search engine, as it does nothing for your site.
In the real world outside our group, frames are not that much of a problem,
and if your happy using them, stay with frames.

 

[Nico Schuyt]

In the real world outside our group, frames are not that much of a
problem,

I agree that it is not al evilness, but the problems with orphaned pages and
impossibility to bookmark (or point to) individual pages make the technique
not suitable for a professional site (alas!).
For a personal homepage however it's acceptable. For a gallery I never saw a
good alternative so far.
Cheers, Nico

 

[the idiot]

about?

Frames don't appear in the latest (X)HTML specification.
They introduce a large number of problems, http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
has some pointers.

are iframes ok or are they bad too? in which case i'm in a lot of trouble.

 

[the idiot]

trouble.

They are not supported by NN4. Don't know about other older
browsers, though.

i know that but surely there has to come a point where we dont have to worry
about something built five ten twenty thirty years ago.

 

[Els]

i know that but surely there has to come a point where we dont have to worry
about something built five ten twenty thirty years ago.

I wish!
But I suspect that 5 years from now, IE6.0, NS7.1, Mozilla
1.4 and Opera 7.11 are 'old browsers' which don't render
CSS5 properly :-(

 

[David Dorward]

are iframes ok or are they bad too? in which case i'm in a lot of trouble.

Iframes, except possibly if you have good alternative content and you don't
change the frame with (for example) <a target=..., have all the problems of
normal frames, but with reduced browser support.

 

[Paul Weikel]

Nope, its the fixed size of the content one...

Thanks. I appreciate it. That solved my problem.

Another question if you dont mind. Is there a way to stablize the content
page and make it one fixed size, no matter the size of the browser.
Everytime I add more frames, cols or rows, the stablitity of the content
goes to hell.

Perhaps this is one of the downfalls of frames as used by page designers?

- Paul

 

[Michael Weber]

Hi Paul,

[Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:03:07 GMT/Paul Weikel]

Thanks. I appreciate it. That solved my problem.

Another question if you dont mind. Is there a way to stablize the content
page and make it one fixed size, no matter the size of the browser.

Lol, no.

Everytime I add more frames, cols or rows, the stablitity of the content
goes to hell.

Dont add more. 4 frames are enough.

Perhaps this is one of the downfalls of frames as used by page designers?

You cannot fix a size, no matter how large the browser window is.
Everything is rendered inside that window and so everything depends
on its size.

Why do you want to lock the conent frame??


regs
michael