Frames trouble

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Paul Weikel, Sep 2, 2003.

  1. Paul  Weikel

    Paul Weikel Guest

    Hello,

    I'm new to this newsgroup so I should probably introduce myself. My
    name is Paul. I currently live in beautiful northern Wyoming. I am
    a freelance graphics artist and graduate from Purdue Universities Computer
    Graphics Technology program. I specialize in 3D animation and have a
    limited background in Multimedia.

    Okay.. Now to my question :)

    Im using 4 frames on a website, setup like this:
    || ||======2======
    || 1||======3======
    || ||
    || ||======4======
    || ||=============

    I'm having a problem with frame 3 (my text/content frame) bleeding into
    my header (frame 2) when the browser is resized smaller then the graphics on
    screen. Frame 1 remains fine, even when i drag the right side of the
    browser all the way to the left, nothing bleeds. What i need to do is
    stablize frame 3 so that it will stay in its position and so that it will
    not resize horizontalliy or vertically when the browser is adjusted. here
    is a link to the website so that you can see for yourself what the problem
    is exactly:

    http://snow.prohosting.com/weikelp/test/cODE/Index.html

    Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

    TIA,
    paul
     
    Paul Weikel, Sep 2, 2003
    #1
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  2. "Paul Weikel" <> wrote in message
    news:ulW4b.6173$...
    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm new to this newsgroup so I should probably introduce myself. My
    > name is Paul. I currently live in beautiful northern Wyoming. I am
    > a freelance graphics artist and graduate from Purdue Universities Computer
    > Graphics Technology program. I specialize in 3D animation and have a
    > limited background in Multimedia.


    Welcome! :)


    > Okay.. Now to my question :)
    >
    > Im using 4 frames on a website, setup like this:

    What i need to do is
    > stablize frame 3 so that it will stay in its position and so that it will
    > not resize horizontalliy or vertically when the browser is adjusted.



    Scrap the frames. ;-)

    Seriously, I looked at your site and I'm not seeing any REAL reason to keep
    the frames? It would look alot more professional without them. To me,
    frames scream "hobby designer circa 1995"

    --Tina

    --
    http://www.AffordableHOST.com
    LiveChat: http://chat.affordablehost.com
    20% Discount Code: newsgroup
    Serving the web since 1997
     
    Tina - AffordableHOST.com, Sep 2, 2003
    #2
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  3. Paul  Weikel

    Paul Weikel Guest


    > Scrap the frames. ;-)
    >
    > Seriously, I looked at your site and I'm not seeing any REAL reason to

    keep
    > the frames? It would look alot more professional without them. To me,
    > frames scream "hobby designer circa 1995"


    Okay, maybe they do seem less professional, but its pretty obvious that my
    site is graphically intensive and I dont want to have to have my user
    re-downoad the menu each time he/she goes to another page. I like the way
    frames encapsulate all the information into one defined area and how the
    menu navigation system and header is static.

    Yes, I realize this can be done with CSS (only with the help of Javascript)
    but it doesn't work nearly as smoothly (i.e. choppy menu jitters when
    scrolling).

    I'd like to stick with my frames, so if there is anyone out there that knows
    how to stablize the frame that I am having trouble with, please let me know.

    Thanks,

    Paul
     
    Paul Weikel, Sep 2, 2003
    #3
  4. >
    > I'd like to stick with my frames, so if there is anyone out there that

    knows
    > how to stablize the frame that I am having trouble with, please let me

    know.
    >


    I don't think you'll find much help for that here...
     
    e n | c k m a, Sep 2, 2003
    #4
  5. Paul  Weikel

    Paul Weikel Guest

    "e n | c k m a" <> wrote in message
    news:ZEW4b.77801$...
    > >
    > > I'd like to stick with my frames, so if there is anyone out there that

    > knows
    > > how to stablize the frame that I am having trouble with, please let me

    > know.
    > >

    >
    > I don't think you'll find much help for that here...


    Frame are still HTML code... what is all this anti-frame speak all about?
     
    Paul Weikel, Sep 2, 2003
    #5
  6. >
    > Frame are still HTML code... what is all this anti-frame speak all about?
    >


    I don't remember any links that could help you right now. Try a google
    search for something along the lines of "Why Frames Suck". See what you
    come up with.

    Nick.
     
    e n | c k m a, Sep 2, 2003
    #6
  7. Paul Weikel wrote:

    > Okay, maybe they do seem less professional, but its pretty obvious that my
    > site is graphically intensive and I dont want to have to have my user
    > re-downoad the menu each time he/she goes to another page.


    http://www.mnot.net/cache_docs/

    (BTW - your images aren't showing up for me - probably something to do with
    the syntax errors in your HTML and your backwards slashes in your URIs)

    --
    David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/
     
    David Dorward, Sep 2, 2003
    #7
  8. Paul Weikel wrote:

    > Frame are still HTML code... what is all this anti-frame speak all about?


    Frames don't appear in the latest (X)HTML specification.
    They introduce a large number of problems, http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
    has some pointers.

    --
    David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/
     
    David Dorward, Sep 2, 2003
    #8
  9. Paul  Weikel

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Paul Weikel wrote:
    > I'm having a problem with frame 3 (my text/content frame) bleeding
    > into my header (frame 2) when the browser is resized smaller then the
    > graphics on screen.
    > http://snow.prohosting.com/weikelp/test/cODE/Index.html


    I see no problem (IE5.5)
    Bu look at http://snow.prohosting.com/weikelp/test/cODE/intro.html
    Problem is called 'orphaned pages'. This is what happens when people find
    links to your site in a search engine. At least place a link to your frame
    set on every page.
    Validate the pages in http://validator.w3.org/
    http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://snow.prohosting.com/weikelp
    %2Ftest%2FcODE%2Fintro.html
    (Watch the wrap)
    Regards, Nico
     
    Nico Schuyt, Sep 2, 2003
    #9
  10. Paul  Weikel

    Els Guest

    Paul Weikel wrote:

    >>Scrap the frames. ;-)
    >>
    >>Seriously, I looked at your site and I'm not seeing any REAL reason to keep
    >>the frames? It would look alot more professional without them. To me,
    >>frames scream "hobby designer circa 1995"

    >
    >
    > Okay, maybe they do seem less professional, but its pretty obvious that my
    > site is graphically intensive and I dont want to have to have my user
    > re-downoad the menu each time he/she goes to another page. I like the way
    > frames encapsulate all the information into one defined area and how the
    > menu navigation system and header is static.


    That's what I thought first, but the reloading of header and
    menu is not as bad as you would think. They're already in
    the browser's cache after the first page.
    I am currently changing a website with frames:
    http://www.mediatech.nl/~rachel/index.html to a frameless
    version, where I call the header and menu (and some other
    stuff) with php <? include "otherfile.html"; ?>
    See if you think stuff is reloaded too slowly:
    http://www.mediatech.nl/~rachel/Frameless/index.html
    (only the menu links 'home' 'live pictures' and 'music'
    work, and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th imagelinks on the 'live
    pictures'-page)

    In IE, the page is reloaded, but quickly, because of the
    cache, but in Netscape, at least on my screen, it looks
    exactly as if frames were used.. only the content part is
    being changed. or so it seems.

    > Yes, I realize this can be done with CSS (only with the help of Javascript)
    > but it doesn't work nearly as smoothly (i.e. choppy menu jitters when
    > scrolling).


    Don't know about that, am not using any Javascript.

    > I'd like to stick with my frames, so if there is anyone out there that knows
    > how to stablize the frame that I am having trouble with, please let me know.


    That has to do with the sizes you define for your frames.
    You have <frameset rows="117,270, *" frameborder=0
    framespacing=0>. This means, that you 'give' 117 to the
    first, 270 to the second, and whatever's left, to the third
    frame. (leaving the menu out of this ;-))
    This works, as long as there is at least 388 to divide.
    As soon as there is less, it will be divided equally, so if
    there would be for instance only 300, the frames would 'get'
    respectively 146, 208, and ... nothing.
    So, if you want the header to be static, and the rest
    flexible, try <frameset rows="117,*,*" frameborder=0
    framespacing=0>
    But if you want the 2nd frame (your 3rd, that is) to be
    static as well as the header... Maybe have <frameset
    rows="117,*" frameborder=0 framespacing=0>
    and then divide that second frame again in two frames,
    dividing them as rows="270,*".
    Am not sure if this will completely solve the problem, as
    horizontally, things will still be resizeable.

    As you can see, on the first site I mentioned, all of the
    frames are static, except the content one, which you can see
    by choosing guestbook from the menu, but that's done by
    putting everything together in an inline frame with fixed
    width and height.

    So from all of the above: remember one thing: get rid of the
    frames, and make life easier ;-)

    > Thanks,


    You're welcome.


    --
    Els

    Mente humana é como pára-quedas; funciona melhor aberta.
     
    Els, Sep 2, 2003
    #10
  11. Hi Paul,

    [Tue, 02 Sep 2003 06:12:16 GMT/Paul Weikel]
    >
    > > Scrap the frames. ;-)
    > >
    > > Seriously, I looked at your site and I'm not seeing any REAL reason to

    > keep
    > > the frames? It would look alot more professional without them. To me,
    > > frames scream "hobby designer circa 1995"

    >
    > Okay, maybe they do seem less professional, but its pretty obvious that my
    > site is graphically intensive and I dont want to have to have my user
    > re-downoad the menu each time he/she goes to another page. I like the way
    > frames encapsulate all the information into one defined area and how the
    > menu navigation system and header is static.
    >
    > Yes, I realize this can be done with CSS (only with the help of Javascript)
    > but it doesn't work nearly as smoothly (i.e. choppy menu jitters when
    > scrolling).
    >
    > I'd like to stick with my frames, so if there is anyone out there that knows
    > how to stablize the frame that I am having trouble with, please let me know.


    "<frameset rows="117,270, *"..."

    Sorry, this is bullshit.

    <frameset cols="135,*"
    <frame src...
    <frameset rows="117,*,50"...

    will solve your prob. It is not the content frame that flows into
    your header, it is the fixed size of your footer frame. Drop the
    footer or give it a small size like 50.


    regs
    michael
     
    Michael Weber, Sep 2, 2003
    #11
  12. [Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:08:29 +0200/Michael Weber]
    > will solve your prob. It is not the content frame that flows into
    > your header, it is the fixed size of your footer frame. Drop the
    > footer or give it a small size like 50.


    Nope, its the fixed size of the content one...
     
    Michael Weber, Sep 2, 2003
    #12
  13. Paul  Weikel

    JT Guest

    "Paul Weikel" wrote

    > Im using 4 frames on a website, setup like this:
    > || ||======2======
    > || 1||======3======
    > || ||
    > || ||======4======
    > || ||=============
    >
    > I'm having a problem with frame 3 (my text/content frame) bleeding into
    > my header (frame 2) when the browser is resized smaller then the graphics

    on
    > screen. Frame 1 remains fine, even when i drag the right side of the
    > browser all the way to the left, nothing bleeds. What i need to do is
    > stablize frame 3 so that it will stay in its position and so that it will
    > not resize horizontalliy or vertically when the browser is adjusted. here
    > is a link to the website so that you can see for yourself what the problem
    > is exactly:


    Hi Paul - look at Michael Webber's contribution below. Definately drop the
    'frame 4' search engine, as it does nothing for your site.
    In the real world outside our group, frames are not that much of a problem,
    and if your happy using them, stay with frames.
     
    JT, Sep 2, 2003
    #13
  14. Paul  Weikel

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    JT wrote:
    > In the real world outside our group, frames are not that much of a
    > problem,


    I agree that it is not al evilness, but the problems with orphaned pages and
    impossibility to bookmark (or point to) individual pages make the technique
    not suitable for a professional site (alas!).
    For a personal homepage however it's acceptable. For a gallery I never saw a
    good alternative so far.
    Cheers, Nico
     
    Nico Schuyt, Sep 2, 2003
    #14
  15. Paul  Weikel

    the idiot Guest

    "David Dorward" <> wrote in message
    news:bj1gb1$7im$2$...
    > Paul Weikel wrote:
    >
    > > Frame are still HTML code... what is all this anti-frame speak all

    about?
    >
    > Frames don't appear in the latest (X)HTML specification.
    > They introduce a large number of problems,

    http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
    > has some pointers.
    >

    are iframes ok or are they bad too? in which case i'm in a lot of trouble.
     
    the idiot, Sep 2, 2003
    #15
  16. Paul  Weikel

    the idiot Guest

    "Els" <> wrote in message
    news:bj1rmg$3ek$...
    > the idiot wrote:
    >
    > > are iframes ok or are they bad too? in which case i'm in a lot of

    trouble.
    >
    > They are not supported by NN4. Don't know about other older
    > browsers, though.
    >

    i know that but surely there has to come a point where we dont have to worry
    about something built five ten twenty thirty years ago.
     
    the idiot, Sep 2, 2003
    #16
  17. Paul  Weikel

    Els Guest

    the idiot wrote:

    > "Els" <> wrote in message
    > news:bj1rmg$3ek$...
    >
    >>the idiot wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>are iframes ok or are they bad too? in which case i'm in a lot of

    >
    > trouble.
    >
    >>They are not supported by NN4. Don't know about other older
    >>browsers, though.
    >>

    >
    > i know that but surely there has to come a point where we dont have to worry
    > about something built five ten twenty thirty years ago.


    I wish!
    But I suspect that 5 years from now, IE6.0, NS7.1, Mozilla
    1.4 and Opera 7.11 are 'old browsers' which don't render
    CSS5 properly :-(


    --
    Els

    Mente humana é como pára-quedas; funciona melhor aberta.
     
    Els, Sep 2, 2003
    #17
  18. the idiot wrote:

    >> Frames don't appear in the latest (X)HTML specification.
    >> They introduce a large number of problems,
    >> http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/ has some pointers.


    > are iframes ok or are they bad too? in which case i'm in a lot of trouble.


    Iframes, except possibly if you have good alternative content and you don't
    change the frame with (for example) <a target=..., have all the problems of
    normal frames, but with reduced browser support.

    --
    David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/
     
    David Dorward, Sep 2, 2003
    #18
  19. Paul  Weikel

    Paul Weikel Guest


    > Nope, its the fixed size of the content one...


    Thanks. I appreciate it. That solved my problem.

    Another question if you dont mind. Is there a way to stablize the content
    page and make it one fixed size, no matter the size of the browser.
    Everytime I add more frames, cols or rows, the stablitity of the content
    goes to hell.

    Perhaps this is one of the downfalls of frames as used by page designers?

    - Paul
     
    Paul Weikel, Sep 2, 2003
    #19
  20. Hi Paul,

    [Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:03:07 GMT/Paul Weikel]
    >
    > > Nope, its the fixed size of the content one...

    >
    > Thanks. I appreciate it. That solved my problem.
    >
    > Another question if you dont mind. Is there a way to stablize the content
    > page and make it one fixed size, no matter the size of the browser.


    Lol, no.

    > Everytime I add more frames, cols or rows, the stablitity of the content
    > goes to hell.


    Dont add more. 4 frames are enough.

    > Perhaps this is one of the downfalls of frames as used by page designers?


    You cannot fix a size, no matter how large the browser window is.
    Everything is rendered inside that window and so everything depends
    on its size.

    Why do you want to lock the conent frame??


    regs
    michael
     
    Michael Weber, Sep 2, 2003
    #20
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