Frameset look and behavior problem in Firefox... Help Please!

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Giggle Girl, Feb 22, 2007.

  1. Giggle Girl

    Giggle Girl Guest

    Hello there, :)
    I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox
    1.5+ as it does in IE 6+. Here is a URL for it:

    http://66.51.164.93/fs/default.htm

    In IE, the "seam" between the three frames is blue, 4 or 5 pixels
    wide, and -- most importantly! -- draggable! It is great -- in IE,
    that is. Is it possible to have this same look and behavior in
    Firefox?

    Here is the code for the frameset:

    <frameset name="frameset_0" id="frameset_0" rows="309,*"
    framespacing="3" border="0" frameborder="1" bordercolor="#6889BF"><!--
    old #879CBF, new #6889BF -->

    <frameset name="frameset_1" id="frameset_1" cols="25%,75%"
    framespacing="3" border="0" frameborder="1" bordercolor="#6889BF">
    <frame name="frame_1" id="frame_1" SRC="./_TEMP_frame.htm"
    border="0" scrolling="no" resize frameborder="0">
    <frame name="frame_2" id="frame_2" SRC="./_TEMP_frame.htm"
    border="0" scrolling="no" resize frameborder="0">
    </frameset>
    <frame name="frame_2" id="frame_2" SRC="./_TEMP_frame.htm" border="0"
    scrolling="no" resize frameborder="0">
    </frameset>

    Thanks for you help,
    Giggle Girl
    Giggle Girl, Feb 22, 2007
    #1
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  2. Giggle Girl

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:

    > I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox
    > 1.5+ as it does in IE 6+. Here is a URL for it:
    >
    > http://66.51.164.93/fs/default.htm


    Put it though a validator and correct all mistakes, note and
    preferably act on all warnings. (You even use an id twice in the
    code...)

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 22, 2007
    #2
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  3. Giggle Girl

    Giggle Girl Guest

    On Feb 22, 3:54 pm, dorayme <> wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    > "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:
    >
    > > I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox
    > > 1.5+ as it does in IE 6+. Here is a URL for it:

    >
    > >http://66.51.164.93/fs/default.htm

    >
    > Put it though a validator and correct all mistakes, note and
    > preferably act on all warnings. (You even use an id twice in the
    > code...)
    >
    > --
    > dorayme



    I will concede the duplicated ID error, but I guarantee it has nothing
    to do with the nature of my issue outlined above. Furthermore, when I
    put the HTML through a validator, I get ZERO errors, and 16 or so
    warnings. Every one of the warnings says "Warning: <frame>
    proprietary attribute "_____". In other words, I am using "IE only"
    attributes. What you don't seem to get is that _IS_ what I am asking
    for help with!! Hello, anyone home?

    Quoting my original message:

    "It looks great -- in IE, that is. Is it possible to have this same
    look and behavior in Firefox?"

    See? I want help making it look and work like it does in IE, and if
    that means using Firefox only attributes, too, or finding the right
    "cross browser" non-proprietary properties/attributes, so be it.

    Of course I am getting warnings -- if I knew how to do this I wouldn't
    be asking this in this group (and getting warnings in the first
    place)!

    Thanks,
    Giggle Girl
    Giggle Girl, Feb 22, 2007
    #3
  4. Giggle Girl

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:

    > On Feb 22, 3:54 pm, dorayme <> wrote:
    > > In article
    > > <>,
    > > "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox
    > > > 1.5+ as it does in IE 6+. Here is a URL for it:

    > >
    > > >http://66.51.164.93/fs/default.htm

    > >
    > > Put it though a validator and correct all mistakes, note and
    > > preferably act on all warnings. (You even use an id twice in the
    > > code...)
    > >
    > > --
    > > dorayme

    >
    >
    > I will concede the duplicated ID error, but I guarantee it has nothing
    > to do with the nature of my issue outlined above. Furthermore, when I
    > put the HTML through a validator, I get ZERO errors,


    And what validator would that be?

    Here are some css ones:

    CSS Error (99/20): Unknown CSS property ³overflow-y².
    CSS Error (100/20): Unknown CSS property ³overflow-x².
    CSS Error (119/13): Invalid property value ³5².
    CSS Error (119/17): Invalid property value ³5².

    Here some HTML ones (I leave the "warnings" out)

    HTML error (10/124): The attribute ³NAME² in tag <FRAMESET> is
    not allowed.
    HTML error (10/124): The attribute ³BORDERCOLOR² in tag
    <FRAMESET> is not allowed.
    ....

    HTML error (13/111): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
    allowed.

    HTML error (14/111): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
    allowed.

    HTML error (17/110): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
    allowed.


    > In other words, I am using "IE only"
    > attributes. What you don't seem to get is that _IS_ what I am asking
    > for help with!! Hello, anyone home?
    >


    I love being talked to by giggling girls like this. Actually, I
    have been wondering about the home bit in relation to myself for
    some time now.. You tell me. I am very bad at self diagnosis.
    Most beings are.

    > Quoting my original message:
    >
    > "It looks great -- in IE, that is. Is it possible to have this same
    > look and behavior in Firefox?"
    >


    Well, I can suggest you forget about anything that is
    proprietorial to IE in constructing a webpage or site, how can it
    not cause cross browser trouble or be ignored? Hello!

    > See? I want help making it look and work like it does in IE, and if
    > that means using Firefox only attributes, too, or finding the right
    > "cross browser" non-proprietary properties/attributes, so be it.
    >


    Use only things you find mentioned at:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html

    Also look at your target htmls and note these do not code for
    frames, so check the doctype there.

    > Thanks,
    > Giggle Girl


    If you are a very very good girl and repost url after you have
    done what you can after reading all the above, I will try to help
    you further. That is, if I am still home. <g>

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 23, 2007
    #4
  5. Giggle Girl

    Giggle Girl Guest

    On Feb 22, 7:24 pm, dorayme <> wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    > "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Feb 22, 3:54 pm, dorayme <> wrote:
    > > > In article
    > > > <>,
    > > > "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > > I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox
    > > > > 1.5+ as it does in IE 6+. Here is a URL for it:

    >
    > > > >http://66.51.164.93/fs/default.htm

    >
    > > > Put it though a validator and correct all mistakes, note and
    > > > preferably act on all warnings. (You even use an id twice in the
    > > > code...)

    >
    > > > --
    > > > dorayme

    >
    > > I will concede the duplicated ID error, but I guarantee it has nothing
    > > to do with the nature of my issue outlined above. Furthermore, when I
    > > put the HTML through a validator, I get ZERO errors,

    >
    > And what validator would that be?
    >
    > Here are some css ones:
    >
    > CSS Error (99/20): Unknown CSS property ³overflow-y².
    > CSS Error (100/20): Unknown CSS property ³overflow-x².
    > CSS Error (119/13): Invalid property value ³5².
    > CSS Error (119/17): Invalid property value ³5².
    >
    > Here some HTML ones (I leave the "warnings" out)
    >
    > HTML error (10/124): The attribute ³NAME² in tag <FRAMESET> is
    > not allowed.
    > HTML error (10/124): The attribute ³BORDERCOLOR² in tag
    > <FRAMESET> is not allowed.
    > ...
    >
    > HTML error (13/111): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
    > allowed.
    >
    > HTML error (14/111): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
    > allowed.
    >
    > HTML error (17/110): The attribute ³RESIZE² in tag <FRAME> is not
    > allowed.
    >
    > > In other words, I am using "IE only"
    > > attributes. What you don't seem to get is that _IS_ what I am asking
    > > for help with!! Hello, anyone home?

    >
    > I love being talked to by giggling girls like this. Actually, I
    > have been wondering about the home bit in relation to myself for
    > some time now.. You tell me. I am very bad at self diagnosis.
    > Most beings are.
    >
    > > Quoting my original message:

    >
    > > "It looks great -- in IE, that is. Is it possible to have this same
    > > look and behavior in Firefox?"

    >
    > Well, I can suggest you forget about anything that is
    > proprietorial to IE in constructing a webpage or site, how can it
    > not cause cross browser trouble or be ignored? Hello!
    >
    > > See? I want help making it look and work like it does in IE, and if
    > > that means using Firefox only attributes, too, or finding the right
    > > "cross browser" non-proprietary properties/attributes, so be it.

    >
    > Use only things you find mentioned at:
    >
    > http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html
    >
    > Also look at your target htmls and note these do not code for
    > frames, so check the doctype there.
    >
    > > Thanks,
    > > Giggle Girl

    >
    > If you are a very very good girl and repost url after you have
    > done what you can after reading all the above, I will try to help
    > you further. That is, if I am still home. <g>
    >
    > --
    > dorayme



    Ha ha! I don't think I need your help. I don't think you get it, or
    don't understand my questions.

    I will look for solutions elsewhere.

    Thanks all the same,
    Ann, a.k.a. Giggle Girl
    Giggle Girl, Feb 23, 2007
    #5
  6. Giggle Girl wrote:
    <snip>

    > Ha ha! I don't think I need your help. I don't think you get it, or
    > don't understand my questions.
    >
    > I will look for solutions elsewhere.


    <frameset name="frameset_1" id="frameset_1" cols="25%,75%"
    framespacing="3" border="0" frameborder="1" bordercolor="#6889BF">
    ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Hmmm no border or border, which is it? Amazing things happen when your
    delete 'border="0"'.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 23, 2007
    #6
  7. Giggle Girl

    Giggle Girl Guest

    On Feb 23, 11:09 am, "Jonathan N. Little" <>
    wrote:
    > <frameset name="frameset_1" id="frameset_1" cols="25%,75%"
    > framespacing="3" border="0" frameborder="1" bordercolor="#6889BF">
    > ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > Hmmm no border or border, which is it? Amazing things happen when your
    > delete 'border="0"'.


    Thank you for that point, Jonathan.

    It has led me to tweak things that are giving me better results (like
    "draggability") in Firefox. Unfortunately, the same code that works
    better for Firefox causes the IE version to look worse, so I may have
    to have some sort of detection and use a different frameset for IE and
    FF.

    Thanks for the lead...

    Ann, a.k.a. Giggle Girl
    Giggle Girl, Feb 26, 2007
    #7
  8. Giggle Girl

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 22 Feb, 18:33, "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:
    > I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox


    Validate it. Validate the HTML, validate the CSS.

    It might work, it might not. But if it's hard to fix valid code, then
    it's even harder to fix invalid code, so do it anyway. There is no
    reason not to, lots of reasons to do so.
    Andy Dingley, Feb 26, 2007
    #8
  9. Giggle Girl

    Giggle Girl Guest

    On Feb 26, 12:21 pm, "Andy Dingley" <> wrote:
    > On 22 Feb, 18:33, "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:
    >
    > > I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox

    >
    > Validate it. Validate the HTML, validate the CSS.
    >
    > It might work, it might not. But if it's hard to fix valid code, then
    > it's even harder to fix invalid code, so do it anyway. There is no
    > reason not to, lots of reasons to do so.


    I ran code in the URL through a Validator that is a plugin called
    "HTML Validator" in Firefox. Bseides the duplicate ID error, it gave
    me only 16 warnings, every one of which was a "Using proprietary IE
    attribute". Again, if I did NOT use the IE proprietary attributes, it
    would not be possible for me to say "Go to this URL and view it in
    IE. _THAT_ is how I want it to look/behave in Firefox. Can you help
    me?"

    You and "dorayme" don't seem to understand this, yet I feel I cannot
    be more clear. Please just ignore this thread. :)

    Again, thanks go to Jonathan N. Little who offered something of value
    instead of trying to shout me down with some useless mantra. (I have
    seen enough threads here to know "Run it through a validator" is the
    first line of defense for people that ultimately have the least advice
    to offer.)

    -- Ann (Still the Giggle Girl)
    Giggle Girl, Feb 26, 2007
    #9
  10. Giggle Girl

    John Hosking Guest

    Giggle Girl wrote:
    >
    > You and "dorayme" don't seem to understand this, yet I feel I cannot
    > be more clear. Please just ignore this thread. :)


    Ann,

    You have billed your situation as a "problem in Firefox," so people
    think you mean Firefox isn't working the way it's supposed to (or, as is
    more usually the case, the way you expect or hope).

    What you really want (and probably should have asked for) is to
    "Duplicate proprietary IE frameset behavior in FF."

    Dorayme's and Andy's suggestions to validate are surely their way of
    pointing out that you code won't likely work with a standards-compliant
    browser, so that's probably part or all of your problem. You know it was
    non-standard but we didn't know you knew. (Still, having multiple
    duplicate IDs can't be helping you any. And you haven't fixed that yet.)

    I hope this is helpful or at least, um, enlightening. I regret that I do
    not know the technical answer to your (actual) questions. I must confess
    a certain lack of interest in achieving this particular task. But good luck.

    --
    John
    John Hosking, Feb 26, 2007
    #10
  11. Giggle Girl

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:

    > Again, thanks go to Jonathan N. Little who offered something of value
    > instead of trying to shout me down with some useless mantra. (I have
    > seen enough threads here to know "Run it through a validator" is the
    > first line of defense for people that ultimately have the least advice
    > to offer.)


    What exactly is the point of these insults to people who try to
    help you? What motivates you except a mean spirited demand for
    immediate practical help that involves you in the least amount of
    work, work that would in fact stand you in good stead if you are
    going to continue to use frames?

    Just how useless was my advice to "use only things you find
    mentioned at:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html"

    (and especially at "16.2.2 The FRAME element")? Did you even
    bother to read the section and try the advice at all?

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 26, 2007
    #11
  12. Giggle Girl wrote:
    > On Feb 26, 12:21 pm, "Andy Dingley" <> wrote:
    >> On 22 Feb, 18:33, "Giggle Girl" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I need a frameset that will have the same look and behavior in Firefox

    >> Validate it. Validate the HTML, validate the CSS.
    >>
    >> It might work, it might not. But if it's hard to fix valid code, then
    >> it's even harder to fix invalid code, so do it anyway. There is no
    >> reason not to, lots of reasons to do so.

    >
    > I ran code in the URL through a Validator that is a plugin called
    > "HTML Validator" in Firefox. Bseides the duplicate ID error, it gave
    > me only 16 warnings, every one of which was a "Using proprietary IE
    > attribute". Again, if I did NOT use the IE proprietary attributes, it
    > would not be possible for me to say "Go to this URL and view it in
    > IE. _THAT_ is how I want it to look/behave in Firefox. Can you help
    > me?"
    >
    > You and "dorayme" don't seem to understand this, yet I feel I cannot
    > be more clear. Please just ignore this thread. :)
    >
    > Again, thanks go to Jonathan N. Little who offered something of value
    > instead of trying to shout me down with some useless mantra. (I have
    > seen enough threads here to know "Run it through a validator" is the
    > first line of defense for people that ultimately have the least advice
    > to offer.)


    I was not condoning what you are trying to do, just pointed out an
    inconsistency in your markup. You will never get Firefox to "behave"
    like IE is this manner because IE attributes are proprietary to
    Microsoft just as styling the chrome elements such as scrollbars!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 26, 2007
    #12
  13. Giggle Girl

    Giggle Girl Guest

    Thanks for your reply, John Hosking. And not just telling me to run
    things through a validator, ha! I guess people might get misled by me
    saying "Problem with Firefox", but at the same time, it does seem like
    an accurate way to describe the problem/issue. Still, no need to
    split hairs, we'll call it a "miscommunication".

    On Feb 26, 3:53 pm, "Jonathan N. Little" <>
    wrote:
    > I was not condoning what you are trying to do, just pointed out an
    > inconsistency in your markup.


    Jonathan N. Little, have no fear, no one in this group should make
    the mistake of assuming since you actually offered me some help, that
    you are "condoning what I am doing"! For the record, what I am doing
    is _WRONG_. You see, I have paying clients that liked the look and
    behavior in IE of a web application I am building, and they want me to
    replicate this look/behavior in Firefox. You are not going to believe
    it, but they don't care about W3C standards or what kind of code I use
    to achieve this result, they just want it to work! In fact, if my
    clients had to choose between some devilish tweaks that are not
    compliant, but give results darn close to the look and behavior of the
    original URL in IE AND Firefox -- I hope you are sitting down for this
    -- they would be very happy, and care not one whit about non-compliant
    code!

    Conversely, it seems that the vast majority of people in this group
    live in an ivory tower, and would sooner choose to implement 100%
    compliant code according to the W3C, even if it looked like crap and
    was broken in 99% of browsers. My guess is when you enter the real
    world and have paying customers, you will adjust this view, or change
    careers in short order. (If this is a hobby of yours, you are a
    student, you work for the government, or live in a communist country,
    well, pray that you never have to do this stuff "in the real world"!
    You will be in for a real wake up call.)

    I am _STILL_ giggling, and _STILL_ thank the people that offered me
    help besides "run it through a validator". I am not get bent out of
    shape; I knew what I was up against posting in a newsgroup. And, as I
    said, I did get at least one helpfull comment, and one (sort of)
    sympathetic response, so it was worth the posting.

    I remain the Original Giggle Girl!
    -- Ann Giggy
    Giggle Girl, Feb 27, 2007
    #13
  14. Giggle Girl wrote:
    > Thanks for your reply, John Hosking. And not just telling me to run
    > things through a validator, ha! I guess people might get misled by me
    > saying "Problem with Firefox", but at the same time, it does seem like
    > an accurate way to describe the problem/issue. Still, no need to
    > split hairs, we'll call it a "miscommunication".
    >
    > On Feb 26, 3:53 pm, "Jonathan N. Little" <>
    > wrote:
    >> I was not condoning what you are trying to do, just pointed out an
    >> inconsistency in your markup.

    >
    > Jonathan N. Little, have no fear, no one in this group should make
    > the mistake of assuming since you actually offered me some help, that
    > you are "condoning what I am doing"! For the record, what I am doing
    > is _WRONG_. You see, I have paying clients that liked the look and
    > behavior in IE of a web application I am building, and they want me to
    > replicate this look/behavior in Firefox. You are not going to believe
    > it, but they don't care about W3C standards or what kind of code I use
    > to achieve this result, they just want it to work! In fact, if my
    > clients had to choose between some devilish tweaks that are not
    > compliant, but give results darn close to the look and behavior of the
    > original URL in IE AND Firefox -- I hope you are sitting down for this
    > -- they would be very happy, and care not one whit about non-compliant
    > code!

    ....

    Ah, go ahead, just put one of those dime-o-dozen browser sniffing
    javascript popups "Warning MSIE Required To View This Site!"

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 28, 2007
    #14
  15. Giggle Girl wrote

    > You see, I have paying clients that liked the look and
    > behavior in IE of a web application I am building, and they want me to
    > replicate this look/behavior in Firefox. You are not going to believe
    > it, but they don't care about W3C standards or what kind of code I use
    > to achieve this result, they just want it to work!


    Client: Why can't I go across the river in this Firefox car?

    Web dresigner. I'm sure you can. Somehow.

    Client: Well, I can go quite safely across the river with my IE. You had
    better make it so for my Firefox car as well.

    Web dresigner. Hang on a tick... Hello newsgroup. How do I make this so?

    Newsgroup: You don't.

    Web dresigner: But we can go across the river very easily with with our IE.
    We want to be able to so with our Firefox car as well.

    Newsgroup: Er, your IE vehicle is a boat.
    Richard Formby, Feb 28, 2007
    #15
  16. Giggle Girl

    Giggle Girl Guest

    On Feb 27, 11:44 pm, "Jonathan N. Little" <>
    wrote:
    > Ah, go ahead, just put one of those dime-o-dozen browser sniffing
    > javascript popups "Warning MSIE Required To View This Site!"


    Well not exactly. I will have "browser sniffing", and put code for
    IE6 & 7 similar to what I originally showed, and put different code
    for FF 1.5 and 2.0. That will cover > 90% of who is out there; other
    browsers will be told a message similar to what you mentioned.

    The code for FF will be whatever it takes to make it look and behave
    similar to the IE version.

    This is a Web Application, not merely "brochure ware" for a website,
    so there is stuff much more complicated than the frameset that has to
    happen, so it was never going to work with every browser anyway.

    Thanks for your help,
    Miss Giggy
    Giggle Girl, Mar 1, 2007
    #16
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