Getting started with Java on a Mac

Discussion in 'Java' started by Wayne Dernoncourt, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools to do
    stuff. For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files. C++ can do
    that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and maintenance that that
    requires. In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for that kind of task but that seems
    to be dying<sniff>, Excel with Visual Basic can do most of that but not so
    much on the Mac.

    I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my
    Mac. Is there any help for this noob?
    Wayne Dernoncourt, Jan 13, 2012
    #1
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  2. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 09:41:16 -0500, Wayne Dernoncourt
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said
    :

    >I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my
    >Mac. Is there any help for this noob?


    You can do quite a bit with cannibalising. For example
    see http://mindprod.com/products1.html#CSV to read CSV files.

    Look at http://mindprod.com/products1.html#BIO for how you might plot
    graphs. All the pieces are there for you to build a program to plot
    CSV files.

    You want something fancier, see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/graph.html
    I think some of the plotting packages are free.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com
    One of the most useful comments you can put in a program is
    "If you change this, remember to change ?XXX? too".
    Roedy Green, Jan 13, 2012
    #2
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  3. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Jim Gibson Guest

    In article <>, Wayne
    Dernoncourt <> wrote:

    > I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools to do
    > stuff. For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files. C++ can do
    > that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and maintenance that that
    > requires. In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for that kind of task but that seems
    > to be dying<sniff>, Excel with Visual Basic can do most of that but not so
    > much on the Mac.
    >
    > I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my
    > Mac. Is there any help for this noob?
    >


    Java will run on a Mac, but is not well supported. Java is (or was)
    provided by Apple, but the version often lagged, and they have
    announced dropping support for Java. You will then depend upon Oracle
    or some other party providing a Mac version:

    <http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/11/12Oracle-and-Apple-Announce-Ope
    nJDK-Project-for-Mac-OS-X.html>

    Eclipse is available, so you might want to use that, although there
    will be a bit of a learning curve.

    I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
    or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
    up Perl wouldn't be too hard.

    --
    Jim Gibson
    Jim Gibson, Jan 13, 2012
    #3
  4. On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
    (in article <130120121001312844%>):

    > In article <>, Wayne
    > Dernoncourt <> wrote:
    >
    >> I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools to do
    >> stuff. For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files. C++ can do
    >> that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and maintenance that that
    >> requires. In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for that kind of task but that
    >> seems
    >> to be dying<sniff>, Excel with Visual Basic can do most of that but not so
    >> much on the Mac.
    >>
    >> I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on
    >> my
    >> Mac. Is there any help for this noob?
    >>

    >
    > Java will run on a Mac, but is not well supported. Java is (or was)
    > provided by Apple, but the version often lagged, and they have
    > announced dropping support for Java. You will then depend upon Oracle
    > or some other party providing a Mac version:


    > <http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/11/12Oracle-and-Apple-Announce-Ope
    > nJDK-Project-for-Mac-OS-X.html>


    That's what I was afraid of...

    But if it will let me learn how to get things started, it might be enough. I
    may have to recondition an old WinXP desktop that is lying around and see
    what I can get for that.

    > Eclipse is available, so you might want to use that, although there
    > will be a bit of a learning curve.


    <sigh>

    > I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
    > or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
    > up Perl wouldn't be too hard.


    It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential"
    applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file. Currently
    one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for something
    a little simpler.
    Wayne Dernoncourt, Jan 13, 2012
    #4
  5. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Jim Gibson Guest

    In article <>, Wayne
    Dernoncourt <> wrote:

    > On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
    > (in article <130120121001312844%>):
    >


    >
    > > I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
    > > or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
    > > up Perl wouldn't be too hard.

    >
    > It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential"
    > applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file. Currently
    > one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for something
    > a little simpler.
    >


    gnuplot will plot 3D plots from numbers in a text file, if the file is
    formatted appropriately. It can also do rotation of the view point.
    However, it is just for display, and you can't (AFAIK) store the
    resulting rotated points.

    There are several IDEs for Java under Mac OS X:

    <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java ide for mac os x&ie=UTF-8&oe
    =UTF-8>

    One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
    under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.

    --
    Jim Gibson
    Jim Gibson, Jan 14, 2012
    #5
  6. On 12-01-13 02:01 PM, Jim Gibson wrote:
    > In article <>, Wayne
    > Dernoncourt <> wrote:
    >
    >> I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools to do
    >> stuff. For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files. C++ can do
    >> that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and maintenance that that
    >> requires. In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for that kind of task but that seems
    >> to be dying<sniff>, Excel with Visual Basic can do most of that but not so
    >> much on the Mac.
    >>
    >> I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my
    >> Mac. Is there any help for this noob?
    >>

    >
    > Java will run on a Mac, but is not well supported.


    I'm not advocating Java for the OP's requirements, but I think it's a
    bit of a stretch to say that Java on Mac OS X isn't/hasn't been well
    supported. I'm running 1.6.0_29 on my MacBook right now, and that came
    out for Mac OS X only a few weeks after the update release for other
    platforms. It's been my experience for years (and I've used Java on Macs
    going back to when Java appeared) that Apple support for Java on Classic
    Mac and Mac OS X has been very good.

    Granted I am not a Java GUI guy, I may have written half a dozen trivial
    AWT or Swing apps ever in over a decade, and most of them not on a Mac
    anyway, so there could be some cruftiness when it comes to that side of
    things, but overall Mac Java support is very good. IMO.

    > Java is (or was)
    > provided by Apple, but the version often lagged, and they have
    > announced dropping support for Java. You will then depend upon Oracle
    > or some other party providing a Mac version:
    >
    > <http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/11/12Oracle-and-Apple-Announce-Ope
    > nJDK-Project-for-Mac-OS-X.html>


    No, Apple is not dropping support for Java. Apple is contributing to
    OpenJDK, AFAIK.

    > Eclipse is available, so you might want to use that, although there
    > will be a bit of a learning curve.
    >
    > I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
    > or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
    > up Perl wouldn't be too hard.
    >

    Well, I used Perl intensively back in the early and mid-90's, and I
    still have a pathological, masochistic fondness for it. I dunno as how
    I'd nominate it as a first choice; Ruby support on Mac OS X is quite
    good, and that's worth looking at.

    AHS

    --
    ....wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their
    own government...
    -- Thomas Jefferson, 1789
    Arved Sandstrom, Jan 14, 2012
    #6
  7. In article <>,
    Wayne Dernoncourt <> wrote:

    > I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools
    > to do stuff. For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files.
    > C++ can do that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and
    > maintenance that that requires. In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for
    > that kind of task but that seems to be dying<sniff>, Excel with
    > Visual Basic can do most of that but not so much on the Mac.


    You might look at JFreeChart [1], especially the Web Start demo [2] and
    these examples [3, 4].

    [1] <http://www.jfree.org/jfreechart/>
    [2] <http://www.jfree.org/jfreechart/samples.html>
    [3] <http://stackoverflow.com/q/5522575/230513>
    [4] <http://stackoverflow.com/q/5048852/230513>

    > I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my
    > Mac. Is there any help for this noob?


    --
    John B. Matthews
    trashgod at gmail dot com
    <http://sites.google.com/site/drjohnbmatthews>
    John B. Matthews, Jan 14, 2012
    #7
  8. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Gene Guest

    On Jan 14, 5:13 am, Peter Duniho <> wrote:
    > On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:12:45 -0400, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > > [...] It's been my experience for years (and I've used Java on Macs
    > > going back to when Java appeared) that Apple support for Java on Classic
    > > Mac and Mac OS X has been very good.

    >
    > > Granted I am not a Java GUI guy, I may have written half a dozen trivial
    > > AWT or Swing apps ever in over a decade, and most of them not on a Mac
    > > anyway, so there could be some cruftiness when it comes to that side of
    > > things, but overall Mac Java support is very good. IMO.

    >
    > My experience with Java and the Mac is not as extensive as yours, going
    > back only five years.  But I'd say that given that Apple's Java on the Mac
    > was still stuck at 1.5 when 1.7 was on the verge of release, there's
    > justification for considering Java on the Mac to be lagging.  Note alsothe
    > problem that on other platforms you can update to the latest Java easily,
    > while on the Mac (at least historically) the only way to get the latest
    > Java release was to buy the latest OS version as well.
    >
    > Maybe with the OpenJDK stuff, Java on the Mac will become less-proprietary,
    > more up-to-date, etc.  And I'd certainly agree that Java development onthe
    > Mac is viable, even if the API lags behind the rest of the world.  But I'd
    > definitely not call Apple's support of Java on the Mac "very good".  I
    > wouldn't even call it close to that.


    It's something like a red herring to say Apple support for Java is
    this or that. Certainly Microsoft provides less support under
    Windows. Ditto for Linux. Apple is unique in embracing Java at all.

    Moreover, Apple's policy of associating a Java release with each OS X
    release is a more sane lifecycle management strategy than the once-
    every-two-months routine release of the JVM/JDK. Ask any Windows user
    who runs it what they think of the Java update daemon! If developers
    don't appreciate the stability that the Apple policy affords, users
    certainly do. And guys/gals...users are more important.

    In all, the policy of frequent releases seems for more than 15 years
    to have fostered a Java culture of half-baked architectures and
    okayness with bugs a la amateur night. Ultimately, this is why Java
    has never reached the tipping point as a web dynamic content
    mechanism. What a shame... Java could have been Flash. And the
    world would have been a better place.

    Upshot: If Oracle ultimately makes an annual, high quality Java
    release for all platforms, life is going to be better for everyone
    than the current ad hoc mish mosh.

    Just an opinion...
    Gene, Jan 14, 2012
    #8
  9. On 12-01-14 12:13 AM, Peter Duniho wrote:
    > On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:12:45 -0400, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    >
    >> [...] It's been my experience for years (and I've used Java on Macs
    >> going back to when Java appeared) that Apple support for Java on Classic
    >> Mac and Mac OS X has been very good.
    >>
    >> Granted I am not a Java GUI guy, I may have written half a dozen trivial
    >> AWT or Swing apps ever in over a decade, and most of them not on a Mac
    >> anyway, so there could be some cruftiness when it comes to that side of
    >> things, but overall Mac Java support is very good. IMO.

    >
    > My experience with Java and the Mac is not as extensive as yours, going
    > back only five years. But I'd say that given that Apple's Java on the Mac
    > was still stuck at 1.5 when 1.7 was on the verge of release, there's
    > justification for considering Java on the Mac to be lagging. Note also the
    > problem that on other platforms you can update to the latest Java easily,
    > while on the Mac (at least historically) the only way to get the latest
    > Java release was to buy the latest OS version as well.
    >
    > Maybe with the OpenJDK stuff, Java on the Mac will become less-proprietary,
    > more up-to-date, etc. And I'd certainly agree that Java development on the
    > Mac is viable, even if the API lags behind the rest of the world. But I'd
    > definitely not call Apple's support of Java on the Mac "very good". I
    > wouldn't even call it close to that.
    >
    > Pete


    OK, OK, maybe I was in a really charitable mood when I wrote my first
    reply. I'll revise my opinion and say that I think Apple support for
    Java has been good, and sometimes very good.

    It hasn't been just 1.5->1.6 that exhibited a delay, the other jumps
    (1.3->1.4, 1.4->1.5) have been like that too. I believe that there is a
    developer base that is relatively unconcerned about this (like me), and
    that's server-side folks who see their product ultimately deploy on
    Windows or Solaris or Linux against an older JVM from Sun (now Oracle)
    or IBM or BEA (now Oracle). Not many "enterprise" clients upgrade their
    infrastructure so quick either.

    I have to acknowledge that Mac Java developers who want to write
    consumer-type GUI software didn't pick the best platform for it.
    Although I personally believe that anyone who "needs" the latest Java
    the day it comes out has misplaced priorities, it's not my place to say,
    I'm not a writer of consumer GUI apps. So if such a person is wedded to
    the Mac (for other good reasons) but needs the latest Java, they'd best
    use a VM. And quite frankly a lot of professional developers using Macs
    do use VMs anyway. I know I do. So it's a moot point actually. Given
    that the VMs are so good it's a wonder that Apple didn't throw in the
    towel for Java support a long time ago.

    Apple does have different priorities, like linking major Java upgrades
    to their major OS upgrades. I can see reasons for that, without being an
    Apple fanboi.

    AHS
    --
    ....wherever the people are well informed they can be trusted with their
    own government...
    -- Thomas Jefferson, 1789
    Arved Sandstrom, Jan 14, 2012
    #9
  10. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Lew Guest

    On 01/13/2012 08:47 PM, Gene wrote:
    > On Jan 14, 5:13 am, Peter Duniho<> wrote:
    >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:12:45 -0400, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    >>> [...] It's been my experience for years (and I've used Java on Macs
    >>> going back to when Java appeared) that Apple support for Java on Classic
    >>> Mac and Mac OS X has been very good.

    >>
    >>> Granted I am not a Java GUI guy, I may have written half a dozen trivial
    >>> AWT or Swing apps ever in over a decade, and most of them not on a Mac
    >>> anyway, so there could be some cruftiness when it comes to that side of
    >>> things, but overall Mac Java support is very good. IMO.

    >>
    >> My experience with Java and the Mac is not as extensive as yours, going
    >> back only five years. But I'd say that given that Apple's Java on the Mac
    >> was still stuck at 1.5 when 1.7 was on the verge of release, there's
    >> justification for considering Java on the Mac to be lagging. Note also the
    >> problem that on other platforms you can update to the latest Java easily,
    >> while on the Mac (at least historically) the only way to get the latest
    >> Java release was to buy the latest OS version as well.
    >>
    >> Maybe with the OpenJDK stuff, Java on the Mac will become less-proprietary,
    >> more up-to-date, etc. And I'd certainly agree that Java development on the
    >> Mac is viable, even if the API lags behind the rest of the world. But I'd
    >> definitely not call Apple's support of Java on the Mac "very good". I
    >> wouldn't even call it close to that.

    >
    > It's something like a red herring to say Apple support for Java is
    > this or that. Certainly Microsoft provides less support under
    > Windows. Ditto for Linux. Apple is unique in embracing Java at all.


    Linux supports Java just fine, at least some distros. OTOH, saying that
    "Linux supports <?>" is a bit of an oxymoron.

    Regardless, here in Ubuntu you just "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" and your Java
    is updated to the latest stable release for Ubuntu. It's hardly required to
    support it any more than that, since that's how Ubuntu supports literally
    everything it's meaningful to say it supports.

    --
    Lew
    Honi soit qui mal y pense.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg
    Lew, Jan 14, 2012
    #10
  11. In article <IMgQq.9$>,
    Arved Sandstrom <> wrote:
    [...]
    > It hasn't been just 1.5->1.6 that exhibited a delay, the other jumps
    > (1.3->1.4, 1.4->1.5) have been like that too. I believe that there is
    > a developer base that is relatively unconcerned about this (like me),
    > and that's server-side folks who see their product ultimately deploy
    > on Windows or Solaris or Linux against an older JVM from Sun (now
    > Oracle) or IBM or BEA (now Oracle). Not many "enterprise" clients
    > upgrade their infrastructure so quick either.


    Apple sometimes makes pre-release versions available to developers
    under the terms of a license that limits disclosures.

    > I have to acknowledge that Mac Java developers who want to write
    > consumer-type GUI software didn't pick the best platform for it.


    Supporting cross-platform Swing applications has improved my
    understanding of layouts and the UI delegate's role in calculating
    preferred size, among other things.

    > Although I personally believe that anyone who "needs" the latest Java
    > the day it comes out has misplaced priorities, it's not my place to
    > say, I'm not a writer of consumer GUI apps. So if such a person is
    > wedded to the Mac (for other good reasons) but needs the latest Java,
    > they'd best use a VM. And quite frankly a lot of professional
    > developers using Macs do use VMs anyway. I know I do. So it's a moot
    > point actually. Given that the VMs are so good it's a wonder that
    > Apple didn't throw in the towel for Java support a long time ago.


    Oracle's VirtualBox is a good example.

    [...]
    --
    John B. Matthews
    trashgod at gmail dot com
    <http://sites.google.com/site/drjohnbmatthews>
    John B. Matthews, Jan 15, 2012
    #11
  12. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 1/13/2012 1:01 PM, Jim Gibson wrote:
    > In article<>, Wayne
    > Dernoncourt<> wrote:
    >
    >> I've been looking for a programming language to help me write tools to do
    >> stuff. For example generate 2-D plots from CSV or text files. C++ can do
    >> that (and more) but there's a lot more overhead and maintenance that that
    >> requires. In the past I've used Tcl/Tk for that kind of task but that seems
    >> to be dying<sniff>, Excel with Visual Basic can do most of that but not so
    >> much on the Mac.
    >>
    >> I have a book "Core Jave" by Sun but I'm at a loss on how to start Java on my
    >> Mac. Is there any help for this noob?
    >>

    >
    > Java will run on a Mac, but is not well supported. Java is (or was)
    > provided by Apple, but the version often lagged, and they have
    > announced dropping support for Java. You will then depend upon Oracle
    > or some other party providing a Mac version:
    >
    > <http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/11/12Oracle-and-Apple-Announce-Ope
    > nJDK-Project-for-Mac-OS-X.html>


    In the end Apple turned over the relevant code to OpenJDK,
    so OpenJDK is Java for MacOS X from 1.7+.

    It is still preview not GA, but you can get it here:

    http://jdk7.java.net/macportpreview/

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jan 15, 2012
    #12
  13. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 1/13/2012 7:58 PM, Steve Sobol wrote:
    > In article<130120121001312844%>, Jim Gibson says...
    >> Java will run on a Mac, but is not well supported. Java is (or was)
    >> provided by Apple, but the version often lagged, and they have
    >> announced dropping support for Java.

    >
    > They did, but then they announced that they will support Java going
    > forward.


    They donated code to OpenJDK - OpenJDK will support
    moving forward.

    Download link posted in another post.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jan 15, 2012
    #13
  14. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 1/13/2012 11:47 PM, Gene wrote:
    > On Jan 14, 5:13 am, Peter Duniho<> wrote:
    >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:12:45 -0400, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    >>> [...] It's been my experience for years (and I've used Java on Macs
    >>> going back to when Java appeared) that Apple support for Java on Classic
    >>> Mac and Mac OS X has been very good.

    >>
    >>> Granted I am not a Java GUI guy, I may have written half a dozen trivial
    >>> AWT or Swing apps ever in over a decade, and most of them not on a Mac
    >>> anyway, so there could be some cruftiness when it comes to that side of
    >>> things, but overall Mac Java support is very good. IMO.

    >>
    >> My experience with Java and the Mac is not as extensive as yours, going
    >> back only five years. But I'd say that given that Apple's Java on the Mac
    >> was still stuck at 1.5 when 1.7 was on the verge of release, there's
    >> justification for considering Java on the Mac to be lagging. Note also the
    >> problem that on other platforms you can update to the latest Java easily,
    >> while on the Mac (at least historically) the only way to get the latest
    >> Java release was to buy the latest OS version as well.
    >>
    >> Maybe with the OpenJDK stuff, Java on the Mac will become less-proprietary,
    >> more up-to-date, etc. And I'd certainly agree that Java development on the
    >> Mac is viable, even if the API lags behind the rest of the world. But I'd
    >> definitely not call Apple's support of Java on the Mac "very good". I
    >> wouldn't even call it close to that.

    >
    > It's something like a red herring to say Apple support for Java is
    > this or that. Certainly Microsoft provides less support under
    > Windows. Ditto for Linux. Apple is unique in embracing Java at all.


    No.

    IBM support Java on z/OS.
    IBM support Java on i.
    IBM support Java on AIX.
    HP support Java on HP-UX.
    HP support Java on OpenVMS.
    SUN/Oracle support Java on Solaris.

    This is the Java model. The OS vendor support Java
    for their platform.

    It was even supposed to be the case for Windows, but SUN
    and MS ended up in court and MS stopped developing Java/non-Java.


    > Moreover, Apple's policy of associating a Java release with each OS X
    > release is a more sane lifecycle management strategy than the once-
    > every-two-months routine release of the JVM/JDK. Ask any Windows user
    > who runs it what they think of the Java update daemon!


    They probably like that Java behaves similar to Windows itself,
    AcrobatReader, Flash, FireFox, ThunderBird etc..

    Automatic updating is standard today.


    > In all, the policy of frequent releases seems for more than 15 years
    > to have fostered a Java culture of half-baked architectures and
    > okayness with bugs a la amateur night. Ultimately, this is why Java
    > has never reached the tipping point as a web dynamic content
    > mechanism. What a shame... Java could have been Flash. And the
    > world would have been a better place.
    >
    > Upshot: If Oracle ultimately makes an annual, high quality Java
    > release for all platforms, life is going to be better for everyone
    > than the current ad hoc mish mosh.
    >
    > Just an opinion...


    Given that it is typical security fixes that drive the release
    of Java updates, then updating once a year would be a complete
    disaster.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jan 15, 2012
    #14
  15. On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
    (in article <130120121611307236%>):

    > In article <>, Wayne
    > Dernoncourt <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
    >> (in article <130120121001312844%>):
    >>

    >
    >>
    >>> I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
    >>> or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
    >>> up Perl wouldn't be too hard.

    >>
    >> It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential"
    >> applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file. Currently
    >> one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for
    >> something
    >> a little simpler.
    >>

    >
    > gnuplot will plot 3D plots from numbers in a text file, if the file is
    > formatted appropriately. It can also do rotation of the view point.
    > However, it is just for display, and you can't (AFAIK) store the
    > resulting rotated points.


    The results are just for displaying the points. I have no clue if/when I'm
    going to deal with surfaces (the Z-axis), the points are physically on
    surfaces and the target users need to be able to identify points on the
    physical surfaces. I know that this could very well neer happen. There is a
    guy that had a way to use Maya(?) to produce views with a surface model and
    overlaying the points. He insisted that he needed more information (a more
    refined surface model, etc.) - using ping pong balls instead of the actual
    shapes would've been fine, that is it's better than what we have. It never
    happened, sigh.

    <WRT matrix math, etc.) MATLAB is terrific for lots of things, for other
    things it's overkill.

    > There are several IDEs for Java under Mac OS X:


    > <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java ide for mac os x&ie=UTF-8&oe
    > =UTF-8>


    > One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
    > under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.


    I haven't had the time/inclination to do that over the weekend. I'll d that
    shortly. Thanks much.
    Wayne Dernoncourt, Jan 16, 2012
    #15
  16. On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
    (in article <130120121611307236%>):

    > In article <>, Wayne
    > Dernoncourt <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:01:31 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
    >> (in article <130120121001312844%>):


    >>> I use a combination of Perl and gnuplot to generate 2D plots from CSV
    >>> or text files on a Mac. Since you are coming from Tcl/Tk, maybe picking
    >>> up Perl wouldn't be too hard.


    I've written code in Tcl/Tk to "tie" programs together mainly in the Unix
    world. It was very useful but the last time I tried to get Tcl/Tk to work it
    didn't work well (it wouldn't run, I don't remember the issue but there were
    other alternatives at the time).

    >> It's been 10-12 years since I've used Perl, one of the "potential"
    >> applications is 3D rotation in plotting points from a text file. Currently
    >> one of the guys at work is using Matlab for that, I was hoping for
    >> something
    >> a little simpler.
    >>

    >
    > gnuplot will plot 3D plots from numbers in a text file, if the file is
    > formatted appropriately. It can also do rotation of the view point.
    > However, it is just for display, and you can't (AFAIK) store the
    > resulting rotated points.


    > There are several IDEs for Java under Mac OS X:


    > <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java ide for mac os x&ie=UTF-8&oe
    > =UTF-8>


    > One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
    > under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.


    It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill, I need to do some reading to
    figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.
    Wayne Dernoncourt, Jan 17, 2012
    #16
  17. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
    > On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
    >> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java ide for mac os x&ie=UTF-8&oe
    >> =UTF-8>

    >
    >> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
    >> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.

    >
    > It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,


    I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.

    > I need to do some reading to
    > figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.


    desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers

    server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jan 17, 2012
    #17
  18. On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 21:20:31 -0500, Arne Vajhøj wrote
    (in article <4f14daf0$0$289$>):

    > On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
    >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
    >>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java ide for mac os x&ie=UTF-8&oe
    >>> =UTF-8>

    >>
    >>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
    >>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.

    >>
    >> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,

    >
    > I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.


    I was thinking NetBeans was targeted towards enterprise apps, obviously I
    need to widen reading.

    >> I need to do some reading to
    >> figure out which version is appropriate - EE, Classic, etc.


    > desktop apps => Eclipse IDE for Java Developers


    > server apps => Eclipse IDE for Java EE Developers


    Thank you for the clarifying that. I'm starting out as a beginner so I'm
    going for desktop apps for now.
    Wayne Dernoncourt, Jan 17, 2012
    #18
  19. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 1/17/2012 5:33 AM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 21:20:31 -0500, Arne Vajhøj wrote
    > (in article<4f14daf0$0$289$>):
    >
    >> On 1/16/2012 8:24 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:11:30 -0500, Jim Gibson wrote
    >>>> <http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=java ide for mac os x&ie=UTF-8&oe
    >>>> =UTF-8>
    >>>
    >>>> One of those might get you started quickly. I haven't used any of them
    >>>> under Mac OS, so can't recommend any in particular.
    >>>
    >>> It looks like Eclipse might fill the bill,

    >>
    >> I strongly suspect that NetBeans would work too.

    >
    > I was thinking NetBeans was targeted towards enterprise apps, obviously I
    > need to widen reading.


    NetBeans should cover both SE and EE apps.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jan 17, 2012
    #19
  20. Wayne Dernoncourt

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 1/17/2012 2:30 PM, Steve Sobol wrote:
    > In article<>, Wayne
    > Dernoncourt says...
    >> Thank you for the clarifying that. I'm starting out as a beginner so I'm
    >> going for desktop apps for now.

    >
    > I don't want to start another IDE war, but I will point out that I
    > switched from Netbeans to Eclipse years ago and haven't looked back.


    I prefer Eclipse too.

    But there are also those that prefer NetBeans.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jan 17, 2012
    #20
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