S
stefanomnn
hi, i'd like to have a good IDE for java, wich support j2ee...but i''d
like this IDE not to be written in java!
any one can help me?
like this IDE not to be written in java!
any one can help me?
T
timasmith
What would you like it written in...?
Regardless, Eclipse is a great IDE for java and has various plugins
that can get you what you need for j2ee.
Regardless, Eclipse is a great IDE for java and has various plugins
that can get you what you need for j2ee.
R
Roedy Green
M
Malte
stefanomnn said:
Strange!
Well, once you have gotten over it, try Eclipse or Oracle JDeveloper or
Netbeans.
D
dwiz
It's not that strange... Java IDEs are sluggish.
Anyway, JCreator is a simple, good one but the best, in my opinion, is
Borlands JBuilder.
Anyway, JCreator is a simple, good one but the best, in my opinion, is
Borlands JBuilder.
L
Luc The Perverse
stefanomnn said:
You could always take a compiler written in Java and compile it to native
language
Perhaps the true question is - why do you not want the IDE to be written in
Java?
Q
q_q_anonymous
many consider JBuilder to be the worst. I recall on my old computer,dwiz said:
lying on my bed waiting for a list of methods to come up. It wasn't
intuitive either, so many issues. Everything was a nuisance - the
Classpath oh, and the bugs. Maybe if my comp was a bit faster with
more ram it'd have been ok. JBuilder is v. unpopular.
Eclipse was a wonderful relief.
Many used Eclipse as their favourite free one, and then later buy
IntelliJ IDEA for its refactoring abilities like changing variable
names.
I don't really use java, I haven't used IDEA. I used Eclipse ages ago
and loved it, and JBuilder even longer ago which was a nightmare.
I would agree you don't want an IDE written in java ! You don't want
any application written in java ;-) only applets. And who likes
applets?
R
Roedy Green
Please be specific when you tar like that. It is quite improper to
tar products you have never even used.
A
Alex Molochnikov
Eclipse has these features. IDEA may have other advantages (just a
supposition on my part, since I never used it), but refactoring ain't it.
....yet feel qualified to judge its merits/failings.
For someone who, by his own admission, does not use Java, this statement
rings hollow.
Alex Molochnikov
Gestalt Corporation
A
Adie
It's a fair comment, I certianly wouldnt want to use a java windows app on
a regular basis, theyre for the most part ugly and usually insufferably
sluggish. Keep java on the server if you dont mind a maintenance reboot
every 2 weeks, and it's not bad for web apps - fantastic for comp-sci 101.
Although 'real' applications arent written in java, and 'real' engineers
don't work with java as there's *always* a more suitable and elegant
solution.
A
Alex Molochnikov
Adie said:
You either encountered poorly designed applications, or your negative
experience stems from the pre-1.5 Java GUI. Sun was making steady progress,
improving Swing performance, and as of Java 1.5 (actually, even 1.4.2) the
GUI response is quite comparable with the native apps.
If the server runs Windoze - the weekly (never mind by-weekly) reboot is a
fact of life. Whether the app is written in Java or any other platform is
immaterial. The crap comes from M$ OS.
"Real programmers don't eat quiche". Statements of this kind are a hallmark
of immature wizkids that hold on to this belief until they get into the
'real' world. Then they quickly discover that:
a. lots of 'real' aplications are written in Java (Oracle Management Tools,
for a quick reference)
b. 'real' engineers work with what is most suitable for the task at hand. If
the task calls for a robust, OO, cross-platform, multi-vendor solution, Java
is the way. If the task calls for a distributed, or web-based solution, Java
is the _best_ way.
Alex Molochnikov
Gestalt Corporation
I
IchBin
Adie said:
Everybody lives in their own world or company and do what they known. I
have worked at a lot of companies. I would recommend that you do the
same because maturity is a funny thing..
--
Thanks in Advance...
IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA
http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager
__________________________________________________________________________
'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"'
-William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-)
Q
q_q_anonymous
From: "" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmerSubject: Re: good IDE for java
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:30:56 -0800
many have experienced that! JBuilder for example. You could google
jbuilder sluggish or google "jbuilder is slow" then google "jbuilder
is fast". When I used it in 2002, it was too bloated to run on the
computers of the time. it's slow because it was written in java.
google "java is slow" 21,200 results
google "java is fast" 1,100 results
this is all common experience. Maybe Java has improved, but I can be
excused for being skeptical!
Nobody should need to cite examples of java being slow. It's just
obvious. I don't recall any 'big' java app or any small java app even,
that i've liked or kept!! Azeureus , Jbuilder, People avoid java
apps!!
Actually, I just googled mainstream java apps and the cloest match I
found was a webpage saying "There are very few mainstream Java desktop
applications" google's Usenet archive offered as a close match, a
post from 1998 asking why java apps hadn't gone mainstream given the
millions of java programmers!
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmerSubject: Re: good IDE for java
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:30:56 -0800
Roedy said:
many have experienced that! JBuilder for example. You could google
jbuilder sluggish or google "jbuilder is slow" then google "jbuilder
is fast". When I used it in 2002, it was too bloated to run on the
computers of the time. it's slow because it was written in java.
google "java is slow" 21,200 results
google "java is fast" 1,100 results
this is all common experience. Maybe Java has improved, but I can be
excused for being skeptical!
Nobody should need to cite examples of java being slow. It's just
obvious. I don't recall any 'big' java app or any small java app even,
that i've liked or kept!! Azeureus , Jbuilder, People avoid java
apps!!
Actually, I just googled mainstream java apps and the cloest match I
found was a webpage saying "There are very few mainstream Java desktop
applications" google's Usenet archive offered as a close match, a
post from 1998 asking why java apps hadn't gone mainstream given the
millions of java programmers!
R
Roedy Green
You are a waste of time. You post anonymously. You don't even bother
to do an experiment before repeating trolls.
J
J. Verdrengh
Java program startup is slow. As a java program starts, it unzips the java
libraries and compiles parts of itself, so an interactive program can be
sluggish for the first couple seconds of use.
This approaches being a reasonable explanation for the speed myth. But while
it might explain user's impressions, it does not explain why many
programmers (who can easily understand the idea of an interpreted program
being compiled) share the belief.
(c) http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html
libraries and compiles parts of itself, so an interactive program can be
sluggish for the first couple seconds of use.
This approaches being a reasonable explanation for the speed myth. But while
it might explain user's impressions, it does not explain why many
programmers (who can easily understand the idea of an interpreted program
being compiled) share the belief.
(c) http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html
Q
q_q_anonymous
J. Verdrengh said:
Slow startup is rather serious. Programmers understand that java does a
lot more behind the scenes than other languages. And when jars are
used, there's the decompression issue on startup. These although
understood, are not tolerated timewise using a C++ alternative exists!!
It may well be that java is nicer for some to program in. But Using
the app is another matter.
That theoretical test at the link didn't check bulky applications.
Practice shows they kludge along.
That article provides a very weak explanation at the end, that java
isn't really so slow it's all down down to psychology!!
Had they asked people that have tried java applications for specific
reasons why they gave up on them. Then you'll start to see concrete
reasons. Not human psychology.
And these reasons only apply to java apps. Or, apply to java apps
moreso than to C++ apps.
It's possible that now java runs faster - though not as fast as C++.
But because java with swing was so slow in the past, it has that
stigma, that bad reputation, so people see java apps and download the
other one! I haven't tried many java apps recently because of past
experience of java programs. Though actually, a recent java app I
tried was a complete nuisance - GUI wise. Azureus
The app did things that a regular Windows GUI would never do. Because
sometimes the java GUI components aren't quite right. People tend not
to find the right standard components The find a component with issues
or bugs.
I recall programming a GUI in java where you coulc click and drag the
contents of one box into another. It took me a long time to look for
the right component, but I never found exactly the right one, and I
remember having to do some ridiculous workarounds. FWIW it was a team
project - i.e. not just me. A Standard windows component like in VB
wouldn't have had the problem I ran into in the click and drag.
So, that's just yet another reason why java programs haven't taken
off. The GUI components have issues.
Plus i'm quite sure that java programs use more memory. the bigger the
program, the more memory it takes up.
I remember lecturers unable to do their presentation because running 2
big java apps at the same time was too much for their computer.
Everybody in the hall knew it was java. THat wouldn't have happened had
the prgorams been C++.
Z
zero
(e-mail address removed) wrote in @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
I tried JBuilder several years ago, and it was slow. I haven't tried the
newest version though.
In contrast, I have only tried eclipse very recently, and I found it to be
fast enough.
I believe you are suffering from the same illness that so many IT people
have: you're fixed in your beliefs and don't want to be convinced that
there are nuances. Just like many believe the dogma "Windows bad, Linux
good" without looking at the facts (which are that with each subsequent
release, the difference becomes smaller), you are holding on to the belief
that Java is too slow for the real world. Not long ago, I saw two school
projects about genetic algorithms. Both did more or less the same, but one
was written in Java, the other in C++ (with Borland Builder). The Java one
was faster.
This of course had to do with the coding - both were done well, but the
Java implementation used HashMaps to store and retreive data, while the C++
one used StringLists. The point is however that you can't just say Java is
slow without looking at the facts - and not facts from 3 years ago, as you
did in your post.
I tried JBuilder several years ago, and it was slow. I haven't tried the
newest version though.
In contrast, I have only tried eclipse very recently, and I found it to be
fast enough.
I believe you are suffering from the same illness that so many IT people
have: you're fixed in your beliefs and don't want to be convinced that
there are nuances. Just like many believe the dogma "Windows bad, Linux
good" without looking at the facts (which are that with each subsequent
release, the difference becomes smaller), you are holding on to the belief
that Java is too slow for the real world. Not long ago, I saw two school
projects about genetic algorithms. Both did more or less the same, but one
was written in Java, the other in C++ (with Borland Builder). The Java one
was faster.
This of course had to do with the coding - both were done well, but the
Java implementation used HashMaps to store and retreive data, while the C++
one used StringLists. The point is however that you can't just say Java is
slow without looking at the facts - and not facts from 3 years ago, as you
did in your post.
Q
q_q_anonymous
Roedy said:
you are 1 person saying so. So you agree with the whole
oh no, the java police. and they call names too. . Name-calling helps
to win arguments if your audience are a bunch of fools. I guess you
consider yourself a leader of lemmings, pointing out trolls so the
helpless ppl(pimples) don't get lost like lemmings.
so why don't you tell us why java apps aren't mainstream. And do so in
a way that won't make you a troll by your own undocumented definition
of the word.
or is it that anybody that dares claim that java apps aren't mainstream
is a heretic
Oh, you don't like me posting in a way that is semantically anonymous.
If I had called myself FlintBlah or PotOfSoup like many people call
themselves maybe that'd be better for you, that is less anonymous, is
it? 'cos that'd really gives away my identity! Or if I used a fake
name like many people do, that'd be ok, i wouldn't be anonymous
anymore, and you be any wiser(or less wise) .
you should really see the stupidity in your reasoning.
or are you one of those guys that in order not to be too anonymous,
likes to put all his ideas and thoughts on his t-shirt. It's mostly
teenagers that do that. Thouigh some immature adults do too.
I don't subscribe to that camp
You should be experienced enough to know that a person that uses their
name on usenet isn't necessary making a useful contribution. Likewise,
a person that posts as Anonymous is not necessarily a troll. On the
contrary, the troll is often soembody with a regular sounding name like
Paul Ranton and people might think that is his name.
You are being very very silly, you know that, don't you?
D
Daniel Dyer
The Oracle Management Tools are far from being a good example of desktop
Java applications. They really are unpleasant.
Dan.
D
Daniel Dyer
NetBeans also has refactoring tools, but IDEA's refactoring support is
more comprehensive. If you don't use IDEA how do you know that Eclipse
matches it in this regard? I'm not saying that it doesn't (I am similarly
unqualified to make the call because I don't like to use Eclipse).
Dan.