good IDE for java

Discussion in 'Java' started by stefanomnn, Dec 11, 2005.

  1. stefanomnn

    stefanomnn Guest

    hi, i'd like to have a good IDE for java, wich support j2ee...but i''d
    like this IDE not to be written in java!
    any one can help me?
    stefanomnn, Dec 11, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. stefanomnn

    Guest

    What would you like it written in...?

    Regardless, Eclipse is a great IDE for java and has various plugins
    that can get you what you need for j2ee.
    , Dec 11, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. stefanomnn

    Roedy Green Guest

    On 11 Dec 2005 09:30:16 -0800, "stefanomnn" <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >hi, i'd like to have a good IDE for java, wich support j2ee...but i''d
    >like this IDE not to be written in java!
    >any one can help me?


    see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
    Roedy Green, Dec 11, 2005
    #3
  4. stefanomnn

    Malte Guest

    stefanomnn wrote:

    > like this IDE not to be written in java!
    > any one can help me?
    >


    Strange!

    Well, once you have gotten over it, try Eclipse or Oracle JDeveloper or
    Netbeans.
    Malte, Dec 11, 2005
    #4
  5. stefanomnn

    dwiz Guest

    It's not that strange... Java IDEs are sluggish.

    Anyway, JCreator is a simple, good one but the best, in my opinion, is
    Borlands JBuilder.


    "Malte" <> wrote in message
    news:439ca259$0$78283$...
    > stefanomnn wrote:
    >
    >> like this IDE not to be written in java!
    >> any one can help me?
    >>

    >
    > Strange!
    >
    > Well, once you have gotten over it, try Eclipse or Oracle JDeveloper or
    > Netbeans.
    dwiz, Dec 11, 2005
    #5
  6. "stefanomnn" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > hi, i'd like to have a good IDE for java, wich support j2ee...but i''d
    > like this IDE not to be written in java!
    > any one can help me?
    >


    You could always take a compiler written in Java and compile it to native
    language :)

    Perhaps the true question is - why do you not want the IDE to be written in
    Java?

    --
    LTP

    :)
    Luc The Perverse, Dec 11, 2005
    #6
  7. stefanomnn

    Guest

    dwiz wrote:
    > It's not that strange... Java IDEs are sluggish.
    >
    > Anyway, JCreator is a simple, good one but the best, in my opinion, is
    > Borlands JBuilder.
    >

    many consider JBuilder to be the worst. I recall on my old computer,
    lying on my bed waiting for a list of methods to come up. It wasn't
    intuitive either, so many issues. Everything was a nuisance - the
    Classpath oh, and the bugs. Maybe if my comp was a bit faster with
    more ram it'd have been ok. JBuilder is v. unpopular.

    Eclipse was a wonderful relief.
    Many used Eclipse as their favourite free one, and then later buy
    IntelliJ IDEA for its refactoring abilities like changing variable
    names.

    I don't really use java, I haven't used IDEA. I used Eclipse ages ago
    and loved it, and JBuilder even longer ago which was a nightmare.

    I would agree you don't want an IDE written in java ! You don't want
    any application written in java ;-) only applets. And who likes
    applets?
    , Dec 11, 2005
    #7
  8. stefanomnn

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:51:02 -0000, "dwiz" <> wrote,
    quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >It's not that strange... Java IDEs are sluggish.


    Please be specific when you tar like that. It is quite improper to
    tar products you have never even used.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
    Roedy Green, Dec 12, 2005
    #8
  9. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Many used Eclipse as their favourite free one, and then later buy
    > IntelliJ IDEA for its refactoring abilities like changing variable
    > names.


    Eclipse has these features. IDEA may have other advantages (just a
    supposition on my part, since I never used it), but refactoring ain't it.

    > I don't really use java...


    ....yet feel qualified to judge its merits/failings.

    > You don't want any application written in java ;-)


    For someone who, by his own admission, does not use Java, this statement
    rings hollow.

    Alex Molochnikov
    Gestalt Corporation
    Alex Molochnikov, Dec 12, 2005
    #9
  10. stefanomnn

    Adie Guest

    On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 05:19:28 GMT, Alex Molochnikov wrote:
    > <> wrote in message


    >> You don't want any application written in java ;-)

    >
    > For someone who, by his own admission, does not use Java, this statement
    > rings hollow.


    It's a fair comment, I certianly wouldnt want to use a java windows app on
    a regular basis, theyre for the most part ugly and usually insufferably
    sluggish. Keep java on the server if you dont mind a maintenance reboot
    every 2 weeks, and it's not bad for web apps - fantastic for comp-sci 101.
    Although 'real' applications arent written in java, and 'real' engineers
    don't work with java as there's *always* a more suitable and elegant
    solution.
    Adie, Dec 12, 2005
    #10
  11. "Adie" <adie@oh-****.com> wrote in message
    news:mmtcsc5h678k.1gpczrj3rkj0o$...
    > ...I certianly wouldnt want to use a java windows app on
    > a regular basis, theyre for the most part ugly and usually insufferably
    > sluggish.


    You either encountered poorly designed applications, or your negative
    experience stems from the pre-1.5 Java GUI. Sun was making steady progress,
    improving Swing performance, and as of Java 1.5 (actually, even 1.4.2) the
    GUI response is quite comparable with the native apps.

    > Keep java on the server if you dont mind a maintenance reboot
    > every 2 weeks, and it's not bad for web apps - fantastic for comp-sci 101.


    If the server runs Windoze - the weekly (never mind by-weekly) reboot is a
    fact of life. Whether the app is written in Java or any other platform is
    immaterial. The crap comes from M$ OS.

    > Although 'real' applications arent written in java, and 'real' engineers
    > don't work with java as there's *always* a more suitable and elegant
    > solution.


    "Real programmers don't eat quiche". Statements of this kind are a hallmark
    of immature wizkids that hold on to this belief until they get into the
    'real' world. Then they quickly discover that:

    a. lots of 'real' aplications are written in Java (Oracle Management Tools,
    for a quick reference)
    b. 'real' engineers work with what is most suitable for the task at hand. If
    the task calls for a robust, OO, cross-platform, multi-vendor solution, Java
    is the way. If the task calls for a distributed, or web-based solution, Java
    is the _best_ way.

    Alex Molochnikov
    Gestalt Corporation
    Alex Molochnikov, Dec 12, 2005
    #11
  12. stefanomnn

    IchBin Guest

    Adie wrote:
    > On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 05:19:28 GMT, Alex Molochnikov wrote:
    >> <> wrote in message

    >
    >>> You don't want any application written in java ;-)

    >> For someone who, by his own admission, does not use Java, this statement
    >> rings hollow.

    >
    > It's a fair comment, I certianly wouldnt want to use a java windows app on
    > a regular basis, theyre for the most part ugly and usually insufferably
    > sluggish. Keep java on the server if you dont mind a maintenance reboot
    > every 2 weeks, and it's not bad for web apps - fantastic for comp-sci 101.
    > Although 'real' applications arent written in java, and 'real' engineers
    > don't work with java as there's *always* a more suitable and elegant
    > solution.
    >


    Everybody lives in their own world or company and do what they known. I
    have worked at a lot of companies. I would recommend that you do the
    same because maturity is a funny thing..

    --


    Thanks in Advance...
    IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA
    http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager
    __________________________________________________________________________

    'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"'
    -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-)
    IchBin, Dec 12, 2005
    #12
  13. stefanomnn

    Guest

    From: "" <>
    Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmerSubject: Re: good IDE for java
    Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:30:56 -0800

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:51:02 -0000, "dwiz" <> wrote,
    > quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >
    > >It's not that strange... Java IDEs are sluggish.

    >
    > Please be specific when you tar like that. It is quite improper to
    > tar products you have never even used.
    > --


    many have experienced that! JBuilder for example. You could google
    jbuilder sluggish or google "jbuilder is slow" then google "jbuilder
    is fast". When I used it in 2002, it was too bloated to run on the
    computers of the time. it's slow because it was written in java.

    google "java is slow" 21,200 results
    google "java is fast" 1,100 results

    this is all common experience. Maybe Java has improved, but I can be
    excused for being skeptical!

    Nobody should need to cite examples of java being slow. It's just
    obvious. I don't recall any 'big' java app or any small java app even,
    that i've liked or kept!! Azeureus , Jbuilder, People avoid java
    apps!!

    Actually, I just googled mainstream java apps and the cloest match I
    found was a webpage saying "There are very few mainstream Java desktop
    applications" google's Usenet archive offered as a close match, a
    post from 1998 asking why java apps hadn't gone mainstream given the
    millions of java programmers!
    , Dec 12, 2005
    #13
  14. stefanomnn

    Roedy Green Guest

    On 12 Dec 2005 02:37:44 -0800, wrote, quoted
    or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >google "java is slow" 21,200 results
    >google "java is fast" 1,100 results
    >
    >this is all common experience. Maybe Java has improved, but I can be
    >excused for being skeptical.


    You are a waste of time. You post anonymously. You don't even bother
    to do an experiment before repeating trolls.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
    Roedy Green, Dec 12, 2005
    #14
  15. stefanomnn

    J. Verdrengh Guest

    Java program startup is slow. As a java program starts, it unzips the java
    libraries and compiles parts of itself, so an interactive program can be
    sluggish for the first couple seconds of use.
    This approaches being a reasonable explanation for the speed myth. But while
    it might explain user's impressions, it does not explain why many
    programmers (who can easily understand the idea of an interpreted program
    being compiled) share the belief.

    (c) http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html
    J. Verdrengh, Dec 12, 2005
    #15
  16. stefanomnn

    Guest

    J. Verdrengh wrote:
    > Java program startup is slow. As a java program starts, it unzips the java
    > libraries and compiles parts of itself, so an interactive program can be
    > sluggish for the first couple seconds of use.
    > This approaches being a reasonable explanation for the speed myth. But while
    > it might explain user's impressions, it does not explain why many
    > programmers (who can easily understand the idea of an interpreted program
    > being compiled) share the belief.
    >
    > (c) http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html


    Slow startup is rather serious. Programmers understand that java does a
    lot more behind the scenes than other languages. And when jars are
    used, there's the decompression issue on startup. These although
    understood, are not tolerated timewise using a C++ alternative exists!!
    It may well be that java is nicer for some to program in. But Using
    the app is another matter.

    That theoretical test at the link didn't check bulky applications.
    Practice shows they kludge along.

    That article provides a very weak explanation at the end, that java
    isn't really so slow it's all down down to psychology!!

    Had they asked people that have tried java applications for specific
    reasons why they gave up on them. Then you'll start to see concrete
    reasons. Not human psychology.
    And these reasons only apply to java apps. Or, apply to java apps
    moreso than to C++ apps.

    It's possible that now java runs faster - though not as fast as C++.
    But because java with swing was so slow in the past, it has that
    stigma, that bad reputation, so people see java apps and download the
    other one! I haven't tried many java apps recently because of past
    experience of java programs. Though actually, a recent java app I
    tried was a complete nuisance - GUI wise. Azureus

    The app did things that a regular Windows GUI would never do. Because
    sometimes the java GUI components aren't quite right. People tend not
    to find the right standard components The find a component with issues
    or bugs.
    I recall programming a GUI in java where you coulc click and drag the
    contents of one box into another. It took me a long time to look for
    the right component, but I never found exactly the right one, and I
    remember having to do some ridiculous workarounds. FWIW it was a team
    project - i.e. not just me. A Standard windows component like in VB
    wouldn't have had the problem I ran into in the click and drag.

    So, that's just yet another reason why java programs haven't taken
    off. The GUI components have issues.

    Plus i'm quite sure that java programs use more memory. the bigger the
    program, the more memory it takes up.

    I remember lecturers unable to do their presentation because running 2
    big java apps at the same time was too much for their computer.
    Everybody in the hall knew it was java. THat wouldn't have happened had
    the prgorams been C++.
    , Dec 12, 2005
    #16
  17. stefanomnn

    zero Guest

    wrote in news:1134383864.593353.5500
    @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

    >
    > many have experienced that! JBuilder for example. You could google
    > jbuilder sluggish or google "jbuilder is slow" then google "jbuilder
    > is fast". When I used it in 2002, it was too bloated to run on the
    > computers of the time. it's slow because it was written in java.


    I tried JBuilder several years ago, and it was slow. I haven't tried the
    newest version though.

    In contrast, I have only tried eclipse very recently, and I found it to be
    fast enough.

    I believe you are suffering from the same illness that so many IT people
    have: you're fixed in your beliefs and don't want to be convinced that
    there are nuances. Just like many believe the dogma "Windows bad, Linux
    good" without looking at the facts (which are that with each subsequent
    release, the difference becomes smaller), you are holding on to the belief
    that Java is too slow for the real world. Not long ago, I saw two school
    projects about genetic algorithms. Both did more or less the same, but one
    was written in Java, the other in C++ (with Borland Builder). The Java one
    was faster.

    This of course had to do with the coding - both were done well, but the
    Java implementation used HashMaps to store and retreive data, while the C++
    one used StringLists. The point is however that you can't just say Java is
    slow without looking at the facts - and not facts from 3 years ago, as you
    did in your post.

    --
    Beware the False Authority Syndrome
    zero, Dec 12, 2005
    #17
  18. stefanomnn

    Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On 12 Dec 2005 02:37:44 -0800, wrote, quoted
    > or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >
    > >google "java is slow" 21,200 results
    > >google "java is fast" 1,100 results
    > >
    > >this is all common experience. Maybe Java has improved, but I can be
    > >excused for being skeptical.

    >
    > You are a waste of time.


    you are 1 person saying so. So you agree with the whole

    >You post anonymously. You don't even bother
    > to do an experiment before repeating trolls.
    > --


    oh no, the java police. and they call names too. . Name-calling helps
    to win arguments if your audience are a bunch of fools. I guess you
    consider yourself a leader of lemmings, pointing out trolls so the
    helpless ppl(pimples) don't get lost like lemmings.

    so why don't you tell us why java apps aren't mainstream. And do so in
    a way that won't make you a troll by your own undocumented definition
    of the word.

    or is it that anybody that dares claim that java apps aren't mainstream
    is a heretic

    Oh, you don't like me posting in a way that is semantically anonymous.
    If I had called myself FlintBlah or PotOfSoup like many people call
    themselves maybe that'd be better for you, that is less anonymous, is
    it? 'cos that'd really gives away my identity! Or if I used a fake
    name like many people do, that'd be ok, i wouldn't be anonymous
    anymore, and you be any wiser(or less wise) .

    you should really see the stupidity in your reasoning.

    or are you one of those guys that in order not to be too anonymous,
    likes to put all his ideas and thoughts on his t-shirt. It's mostly
    teenagers that do that. Thouigh some immature adults do too.

    I don't subscribe to that camp

    You should be experienced enough to know that a person that uses their
    name on usenet isn't necessary making a useful contribution. Likewise,
    a person that posts as Anonymous is not necessarily a troll. On the
    contrary, the troll is often soembody with a regular sounding name like
    Paul Ranton and people might think that is his name.

    You are being very very silly, you know that, don't you?
    , Dec 12, 2005
    #18
  19. stefanomnn

    Daniel Dyer Guest

    On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:11:48 -0000, Alex Molochnikov <>
    wrote:

    > a. lots of 'real' aplications are written in Java (Oracle Management
    > Tools, for a quick reference)


    The Oracle Management Tools are far from being a good example of desktop
    Java applications. They really are unpleasant.

    Dan.

    --
    Daniel Dyer
    http://www.dandyer.co.uk
    Daniel Dyer, Dec 12, 2005
    #19
  20. stefanomnn

    Daniel Dyer Guest

    On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 05:19:28 -0000, Alex Molochnikov <>
    wrote:

    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Many used Eclipse as their favourite free one, and then later buy
    >> IntelliJ IDEA for its refactoring abilities like changing variable
    >> names.

    >
    > Eclipse has these features. IDEA may have other advantages (just a
    > supposition on my part, since I never used it), but refactoring ain't it.
    >
    >> I don't really use java...

    >
    > ...yet feel qualified to judge its merits/failings.



    NetBeans also has refactoring tools, but IDEA's refactoring support is
    more comprehensive. If you don't use IDEA how do you know that Eclipse
    matches it in this regard? I'm not saying that it doesn't (I am similarly
    unqualified to make the call because I don't like to use Eclipse).

    Dan.

    --
    Daniel Dyer
    http://www.dandyer.co.uk
    Daniel Dyer, Dec 12, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. M
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    390
    Roedy Green
    Jun 2, 2004
  2. Matthew Hanna

    Good Java IDE?

    Matthew Hanna, Jan 28, 2005, in forum: Java
    Replies:
    18
    Views:
    735
    Drew V
    Feb 2, 2005
  3. Paul Aspinall

    Good Java IDE

    Paul Aspinall, Aug 10, 2005, in forum: Java
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    2,033
    Steve Sobol
    Aug 11, 2005
  4. Replies:
    3
    Views:
    380
  5. Replies:
    5
    Views:
    917
    Axel Straschil
    Apr 6, 2005
Loading...

Share This Page