Good Sites - who's got some examples?

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Okay, there's a lot to be criticized in many major websites; overuse of
Flash, excessive and unnecessary table layout, inaccessibility problems,
proprietary tags disabling the use of a site for visitors with other
browsers, pop up windows, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... We read
about a lot of such sites here.

But let's take a look at the other side of the coin for a moment. I'd be
interested in what the regulars here consider "good" sites. But, and
here comes the rub, I do not mean mere dry text deserts or well
functioning and accessible sites that are well programmed but plain and
boring to look at, no, I'm wondering what are some of the better "big"
sites, sites that depend heavily on design and features, multimedia
sites, web shops. So I'm not looking for something like
http://www.w3.org/ , which is a great and easy to navigate resource site
for Web developers, but not particularly exciting in terms of multimedia
design.

Who's got some examples for "good" multimedia sites, sites that maybe
provide some clever examples for intelligent incorporation of Flash, or
sites that have complex shopping cart/credit card systems à la
amazon.com, yet are tightly and well programmed, sites with gimmicks,
such as but not limited to (or mandatory to be included) pop ups, *.mpeg
movies, tables, JavaScript effects, and whatever, sites with extras and
features, but that are put to good use and not so much annoying, in
short, good examples for
multimedia-anything-goes-wowie-does-that-look-good! sites, whether they
are commercial or not, that are good examples for "bells and whistles"
sites. Totally subjective opinions welcome.

 

[PeterMcC]

Okay, there's a lot to be criticized in many major websites; overuse
of Flash, excessive and unnecessary table layout, inaccessibility
problems, proprietary tags disabling the use of a site for visitors
with other browsers, pop up windows, et cetera, et cetera, et
cetera... We read about a lot of such sites here.

But let's take a look at the other side of the coin for a moment. I'd
be interested in what the regulars here consider "good" sites. But,
and here comes the rub, I do not mean mere dry text deserts or well
functioning and accessible sites that are well programmed but plain
and boring to look at, no, I'm wondering what are some of the better
"big" sites, sites that depend heavily on design and features,
multimedia sites, web shops. So I'm not looking for something like
http://www.w3.org/ , which is a great and easy to navigate resource
site for Web developers, but not particularly exciting in terms of
multimedia design.

Who's got some examples for "good" multimedia sites, sites that maybe
provide some clever examples for intelligent incorporation of Flash,
or sites that have complex shopping cart/credit card systems à la
amazon.com, yet are tightly and well programmed, sites with gimmicks,
such as but not limited to (or mandatory to be included) pop ups,
*.mpeg movies, tables, JavaScript effects, and whatever, sites with
extras and features, but that are put to good use and not so much
annoying, in short, good examples for
multimedia-anything-goes-wowie-does-that-look-good! sites, whether
they are commercial or not, that are good examples for "bells and
whistles" sites. Totally subjective opinions welcome.

A fair range at:
http://coolhomepages.com/

 

[EightNineThree]

Okay, there's a lot to be criticized in many major websites; overuse of
Flash, excessive and unnecessary table layout, inaccessibility problems,
proprietary tags disabling the use of a site for visitors with other
browsers, pop up windows, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... We read
about a lot of such sites here.

But let's take a look at the other side of the coin for a moment. I'd be
interested in what the regulars here consider "good" sites. But, and
here comes the rub, I do not mean mere dry text deserts or well
functioning and accessible sites that are well programmed but plain and
boring to look at, no, I'm wondering what are some of the better "big"
sites, sites that depend heavily on design and features, multimedia
sites, web shops. So I'm not looking for something like
http://www.w3.org/ , which is a great and easy to navigate resource site
for Web developers, but not particularly exciting in terms of multimedia
design.

Who's got some examples for "good" multimedia sites, sites that maybe
provide some clever examples for intelligent incorporation of Flash, or
sites that have complex shopping cart/credit card systems à la
amazon.com, yet are tightly and well programmed, sites with gimmicks,
such as but not limited to (or mandatory to be included) pop ups, *.mpeg
movies, tables, JavaScript effects, and whatever, sites with extras and
features, but that are put to good use and not so much annoying, in
short, good examples for
multimedia-anything-goes-wowie-does-that-look-good! sites, whether they
are commercial or not, that are good examples for "bells and whistles"
sites. Totally subjective opinions welcome.

Data from the largest research companies on earth (Forrester, Gartner,
Raddon) indicate clearly that the majority of web users (around 70%) use the
Web for "Information", not entertainment.
As such, a "good" website would be designed to be informed above all else.
Multimedia would be used as a supplement for the information on the site,
not *as* the information.

--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree.com

 

[Michaelangelo]

a "good" website would be designed to be informed above all else.
Multimedia would be used as a supplement for the information on the site,
not *as* the information.

I'll second that!

Earlier this week I needed to buy a new washing machine. Among the ones I
was interested in was a Zanussi but I wanted to check out the spec in
more detail than was provided on the retailers website. Naturally I went
to -

www.zanussi.co.uk

- only to be met with the most patronising message I've ever come across
informimg me that for the privilege of viewing their website I would have
to change my browser to either IE or Netcape. Opera 7.11 wasn't good
enough for them. Interestingly the message recommends IE5.5 and Netscape
4.77! I decided that Zanussi wasn't good enough for me and have now
ordered a different make of machine.

Who do these web designers think they are?

Outraged, Edinburgh.

aka

 

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

EightNineThree wrote:

Data from the largest research companies on earth (Forrester, Gartner,
Raddon) indicate clearly that the majority of web users (around 70%) use the
Web for "Information", not entertainment.

Undoubtedly so, but keep in mind why that is so and how to interpret
those statistics: it's because practically _every_ web user uses the web
for information (or do you know somebody who doesn't? Are there really
30% who _don't_ use the web for information at all? I doubt it.), while
only _some_ web users use it to download movies, only _some_ web users
use it to do online banking, only _some_ users use it to watch movie
trailers, only _some_ users use it to do shopping for CDs, books,
furniture, only _some_ users use it to sell stuff at eBay, and so on.

As such, a "good" website would be designed to be informed above all else.
Multimedia would be used as a supplement for the information on the site,
not *as* the information.

Yes, I would tend to agree, though in some cases the multimedia part may
_be_ the information. But anyway, that's exactly why I asked this
question. It's pretty much a given mantra in this group that "multimedia
should be used as a supplement and not as the main thing" and so on, so
there is no need to repeat it here again. Many examples of what is
considered good coding have been provided (which is of course to be
expected in an HTML group frequented by many hard core coders). I am
basically just curious about what some of the regulars here would
consider WOWIE! examples for _design_. You know, matters of taste for
once, though you are of course free and even encouraged to chose only
sites that meet the requirements of your own coding and web philosophy.
You have now _defined_ what you consider a "good" website, which is
good, but I'm curious about an actual existing example of such a site,
perhaps, as you suggested, a site that intelligently uses multimedia
parts as a supplement for the information?

 

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

I'll second that!

Earlier this week I needed to buy a new washing machine. Among the ones I
was interested in was a Zanussi but I wanted to check out the spec in
more detail than was provided on the retailers website. Naturally I went
to -

www.zanussi.co.uk

- only to be met with the most patronising message I've ever come across
informimg me that for the privilege of viewing their website I would have
to change my browser to either IE or Netcape. Opera 7.11 wasn't good
enough for them. Interestingly the message recommends IE5.5 and Netscape
4.77! I decided that Zanussi wasn't good enough for me and have now
ordered a different make of machine.

Who do these web designers think they are?

Yes, Michaelangelo, you are right. But you have now provided another
negative example, which get by the nature of this group of course a
large amount of attention. For once, I though it would be interesting to
have a thread about positive examples for good but -- and that's the rub
-- entertaining, daring, original, clever, ingenious, or whatever web
design. You know, sites the people _here_, the more hard core HTMLers,
like to LOOK at. I would be very interested in it. Feel free to provide
perhaps a counter example of a site that maybe gives an idea of how
Zanussi's site _should_ have been done?

 

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Michaelangelo wrote:

I'll second that!

Earlier this week I needed to buy a new washing machine. Among the ones I
was interested in was a Zanussi but I wanted to check out the spec in
more detail than was provided on the retailers website. Naturally I went
to -

www.zanussi.co.uk

- only to be met with the most patronising message I've ever come across
informimg me that for the privilege of viewing their website I would have
to change my browser to either IE or Netcape. Opera 7.11 wasn't good
enough for them. Interestingly the message recommends IE5.5 and Netscape
4.77! I decided that Zanussi wasn't good enough for me and have now
ordered a different make of machine.

Who do these web designers think they are?

Yes, Michaelangelo, you are right. But you have now provided another
negative example, which get by the nature of this group of course a
large amount of attention. For once, I thought it would be interesting
to have a thread about positive examples for good but -- and that's the
rub -- entertaining, daring, original, clever, ingenious, or whatever
web design. You know, sites the people _here_, the more hard core
HTMLers, like to LOOK at. I would be very interested in it. Feel free to
provide perhaps a counter example of a site that maybe gives an idea of
how Zanussi's site _should_ have been done?

 

[Wipkip]

Okay, there's a lot to be criticized in many major websites; overuse
of Flash, excessive and unnecessary table layout, inaccessibility
problems, proprietary tags disabling the use of a site for visitors
with other browsers, pop up windows, et cetera, et cetera, et
cetera... We read about a lot of such sites here.

But let's take a look at the other side of the coin for a moment. I'd
be interested in what the regulars here consider "good" sites. But,
and here comes the rub, I do not mean mere dry text deserts or well
functioning and accessible sites that are well programmed but plain
and boring to look at, no, I'm wondering what are some of the better
"big" sites, sites that depend heavily on design and features,
multimedia sites, web shops. So I'm not looking for something like
http://www.w3.org/ , which is a great and easy to navigate resource
site for Web developers, but not particularly exciting in terms of
multimedia design.

Who's got some examples for "good" multimedia sites, sites that maybe
provide some clever examples for intelligent incorporation of Flash,
or sites that have complex shopping cart/credit card systems à la
amazon.com, yet are tightly and well programmed, sites with gimmicks,
such as but not limited to (or mandatory to be included) pop ups,
*.mpeg movies, tables, JavaScript effects, and whatever, sites with
extras and features, but that are put to good use and not so much
annoying, in short, good examples for
multimedia-anything-goes-wowie-does-that-look-good! sites, whether
they are commercial or not, that are good examples for "bells and
whistles" sites. Totally subjective opinions welcome.

http://wipkip.us/

 

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

Michaelangelo wrote:

Earlier this week I needed to buy a new washing machine. Among the ones I
was interested in was a Zanussi but I wanted to check out the spec in
more detail than was provided on the retailers website. Naturally I went
to -

www.zanussi.co.uk

- only to be met with the most patronising message I've ever come across
informimg me that for the privilege of viewing their website I would have
to change my browser to either IE or Netcape. Opera 7.11 wasn't good
enough for them. Interestingly the message recommends IE5.5 and Netscape
4.77! I decided that Zanussi wasn't good enough for me and have now
ordered a different make of machine.

Who do these web designers think they are?

PS: I just visited the site with Opera and got the same message. Perhaps
if every Opera user reading this would pay this site a visit, stay there
a second, and then leave again... heh, heh... will sure look annoying
when they take a look at their statistics and see that a surprisingly
large number of Opera users went to their site only to be turned away.

 

[picayunish]

Wipkip wrote in news[email protected]:

http://wipkip.us/

Please don't change so much your uri. ;-(
Welcome back Duende.

 

[Adrienne]

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Nicolai P. Zwar"

Michaelangelo wrote:




PS: I just visited the site with Opera and got the same message.
Perhaps if every Opera user reading this would pay this site a visit,
stay there a second, and then leave again... heh, heh... will sure look
annoying when they take a look at their statistics and see that a
surprisingly large number of Opera users went to their site only to be
turned away.

I use Opera, and I sent them a nice message, asking them if they were aware
of how many potential customers they were losing, and how in the future
there could be many more considering more and more people are using other
web enabled devices.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Nicolai P. Zwar pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:

PS: I just visited the site with Opera and got the same message.

Heh, try it with Lynx.

[INLINE] [INLINE]
[LINK] See the new Zanussi Dishwasher range [LINK]
[INLINE] [LINK] [INLINE] [LINK] [INLINE] [LINK] [INLINE] [LINK]
[INLINE] [LINK] [INLINE] [LINK]
[LINK]
[LINK]


End of page.

 

[Michaelangelo]

Yes, Michaelangelo, you are right. But you have now provided another
negative example, which get by the nature of this group of course a
large amount of attention. For once, I thought it would be interesting
to have a thread about positive examples for good but -- and that's the
rub -- entertaining, daring, original, clever, ingenious, or whatever
web design. You know, sites the people _here_, the more hard core
HTMLers, like to LOOK at. I would be very interested in it. Feel free to
provide perhaps a counter example of a site that maybe gives an idea of
how Zanussi's site _should_ have been done?

Yes, I realised I was giving another negative example but the point is I
don't go to websites to LOOK et them. I go for information or maybe to
acquire something - a purchase or a download of some kind. In the same
way I go to art galleries to look at the pictures, not to admire the
picture-frames.

 

[Michaelangelo]

PS: I just visited the site with Opera and got the same message. Perhaps
if every Opera user reading this would pay this site a visit, stay there
a second, and then leave again... heh, heh... will sure look annoying
when they take a look at their statistics and see that a surprisingly
large number of Opera users went to their site only to be turned away.

Except that their stats won't show many instances of visits from Opera
users because, by default, Opera masquerades as IE. I suspect that most
Opera users just leave it set up that way. What I should probably do is
write to the CEO of Zanussi (or Electrolux) asking him what on earth he
or she thinks their web designers are playing at.

 

[Wipkip]

Wipkip wrote in news[email protected]:

Please don't change so much your uri. ;-(
Welcome back Duende.

Was I away?

 

[picayunish]

Wipkip wrote in news:[email protected]:

Was I away?

At last you ware quiet.

 

[Whitecrest]

Data from the largest research companies on earth (Forrester, Gartner,
Raddon) indicate clearly that the majority of web users (around 70%) use the
Web for "Information", not entertainment.
As such, a "good" website would be designed to be informed above all else.
Multimedia would be used as a supplement for the information on the site,
not *as* the information.

Except on that other 30% right? So if that is your market, then it is
ok to use stuff like flash, and multi-media. Also, did they give a
breakdown of what that 70% considered to be entertainment? for example,
is looking at the Matrix movies web site considered entertainment or
information? It could be looked at either way. And in any event, that
30% is a mighty fine niche to have a piece of.

 

[Whitecrest]

I'll second that!
Earlier this week I needed to buy a new washing machine. Among the ones I
was interested in was a Zanussi but I wanted to check out the spec in
more detail than was provided on the retailers website. Naturally I went
to -
www.zanussi.co.uk
- only to be met with the most patronising message I've ever come across
informimg me that for the privilege of viewing their website I would have
to change my browser to either IE or Netcape. Opera 7.11 wasn't good
enough for them. Interestingly the message recommends IE5.5 and Netscape
4.77! I decided that Zanussi wasn't good enough for me and have now
ordered a different make of machine.
Who do these web designers think they are?

You made a choice, to use opera. They made a choice they don't support
your browser. What did your choice cost you? Maybe the best washing
machine in the world. What did it cost them? Maybe your sale.

You both made a choice. Both had consequences. Neither was wrong.

 

[Whitecrest]

Except that their stats won't show many instances of visits from Opera
users because, by default, Opera masquerades as IE. I suspect that most
Opera users just leave it set up that way. What I should probably do is
write to the CEO of Zanussi (or Electrolux) asking him what on earth he
or she thinks their web designers are playing at.

It will do nothing. Lets say you all write to the CEO and say, hey I
use opera and can't see your site.

Lets say he goes to the development teams and asks them about it. They
could easily talk him into believing that opera is hardly a hair on a
gnat's ass. "But look at this cool web feature we will lose if we
support Opera. And look at the web logs at how few of our visitors use
Opera." To which the CEO will reply "Damn your right. I'm glad I have
you guys."

I am not judging if that is right or not, but welcome to reality folks.

 

[Nicolai P. Zwar]

You made a choice, to use opera. They made a choice they don't support
your browser. What did your choice cost you? Maybe the best washing
machine in the world. What did it cost them? Maybe your sale.

You both made a choice. Both had consequences. Neither was wrong.

That just about wraps it all up.