Graduating soon in Comp Sci. Need real world advice.

A

anonaki

I will be graduating soon with a BS in computer science. However, I
feel unprepared for the real world. I've done small programming
projects on my own and did school projects, but I was never exposed to
what goes on in a real world programming environment.. Internships
were not too useful.. mostly web related stuff in html or flash.. not
any robust web or distributed apps were introduced to us. Plus with
all the jobs being shipped outside the U.S. (where I live), i'm
becoming a little disillusioned with programming as a whole now. Of
those that I know that have graduated, many of them cannot find a
decent programming job. Plus many of them don't know anything. My
knowledge is strongest in the Java langauge, I have experience with
C++,C,and PhP. But I do understand programming concepts. I have a non
programming job making a about $33,000/yr. I have been able to live
fine with that. What i'm asking for is some examples of things that
the professionals are doing. I'll appreciate some brief examples of
projects, assignments, or things that are done on a day to day basis
by those who are working. This can be in any language or platform.
Any little tidbit will be useful. I'm gonna try to boost up my skill
level on my own from the insight that I get from you all. I wanna get
my mind out of the limits of the class room and get a feel of whats
happening out there.

thanks.
 
M

Malcolm

anonaki said:
I will be graduating soon with a BS in computer science.
However, I feel unprepared for the real world. I've done small
programming projects on my own and did school projects, but I
was never exposed to what goes on in a real world programming
environment.. Internships were not too useful.. mostly web
related stuff in html or flash.. not any robust web or distributed
apps were introduced to us.
There are two problems facing anyone who wants to implement an information
system. I will use London's congestion charging system as an example.
1) How to read the number plates of cars given a camera. Number plates might
be slightly obscured, they might be in a non-standard font, the car might be
facing the camera at an unexpected angle. How are you going to convert an
image into a registration number reliably enough to use for enforcement?
2) How to send the penalty notices to offenders. You have a database of
people with cars, however there are foreign cars, people moving about,
people with exemptions and other legitimate excuses for not paying the
congestion charge. How are you going to design a system that sends fines to
people in violation, but is flexible enough to cope with special cases?

Which sort of problem do you think you would be best coping with?
Plus with all the jobs being shipped outside the U.S. (where I
live), i'm becoming a little disillusioned with programming as a
whole now. Of those that I know that have graduated, many of
them cannot find a decent programming job. Plus many of them
don't know anything. My knowledge is strongest in the Java
langauge, I have experience with C++,C,and PhP. But I do
understand programming concepts.
Don't get too disillusioned. Third World countries may well get some of the
routine programming jobs, but where quality is more important than
programmer costs, which is in a lot of projects, then Americans are in a
good position to compete.
 
I

iksrazal

I will be graduating soon with a BS in computer science. However, I
feel unprepared for the real world. I've done small programming
projects on my own and did school projects, but I was never exposed to
what goes on in a real world programming environment..

Learn how to work with people, be positive and enthusiastic. Write
short, simple methods. Plan for change. Think about how long your
language will remain popular, and be lucky if you only have to change
once every five years.

HTH

Outsource to an American programmer living in brazil!
http://www.braziloutsource.com/
iksrazal
 
E

Ed Thompson

I've done some hiring recently, and one thing I find lacking in those
just out of school is ]
A) understanding of the development lifecycle, and
B) understanding of best practices in testing.

I was shocked when one of our fresh out of schoolers didn't understand
the concept of 'regression testing' for instance, and what passes for
Unit testing for some recent grads is horrid.

In an interview situation, if you can communicate a grasp of the
development process (Requirements to QA) and have a firm commitment to
testing strategies, I believe you would be ahead of the game.

What would separate you from the jobs going overseas is the ability to
guid ethe process. They have thge same tech skills we do in many cases
- what US companies will want to keep local for some time is management
of the process. Plus they will always want locals who have techniocal
skills AND process skills.

In my opinion, schools teaching computer 'science' without teaching best
practices in process are doing our industry a great disservice. They
should be required courses!
 
C

CBFalconer

anonaki said:
.... snip ...
Any little tidbit will be useful. I'm gonna try to boost up my
skill level on my own from the insight that I get from you all.
I wanna get my mind out of the limits of the class room and get
a feel of whats happening out there.

Try speaking and writing English first. 'gonna' and 'wanna' leave
the immediate impression of some poorly educated and/or careless
slob.
 
R

Richard Chrenko

I will be graduating soon with a BS in computer science. However, I
feel unprepared for the real world. I've done small programming
projects on my own and did school projects, but I was never exposed to
what goes on in a real world programming environment.. Internships
were not too useful.. mostly web related stuff in html or flash.. not
any robust web or distributed apps were introduced to us. Plus with
all the jobs being shipped outside the U.S. (where I live), i'm
becoming a little disillusioned with programming as a whole now. Of
those that I know that have graduated, many of them cannot find a
decent programming job. Plus many of them don't know anything. My
knowledge is strongest in the Java langauge, I have experience with
C++,C,and PhP. But I do understand programming concepts. I have a non
programming job making a about $33,000/yr. I have been able to live
fine with that. What i'm asking for is some examples of things that
the professionals are doing. I'll appreciate some brief examples of
projects, assignments, or things that are done on a day to day basis
by those who are working. This can be in any language or platform. Any
little tidbit will be useful. I'm gonna try to boost up my skill
level on my own from the insight that I get from you all. I wanna get
my mind out of the limits of the class room and get a feel of whats
happening out there.

thanks.

Why are you limiting yourself to "programming jobs?" In my opinion, you
don't need a BS to be a programmer - although programmers do seem to
generate heaps of BS :). The degree you are getting (hopefully) provided
you with the latest knowledge of the entire software development cycle
including market research, requirements generation, software architecture
and design, algorithm development, version control, testing and validation,
and deployment. Teenage hackers make good, cheap, and outsourceable
programmers, yet they would be completely lost at a challenging,
multidisciplinary software development job. Unless your goal is truly to be
a programmer, I suggest that you expand your horizons and look at what else
the field of computer science has to offer.
 
J

Joona I Palaste

anonaki <[email protected]> scribbled the following
I will be graduating soon with a BS in computer science. However, I
feel unprepared for the real world. I've done small programming
projects on my own and did school projects, but I was never exposed to
what goes on in a real world programming environment.

FWIW, I have the exact opposite problem. I have almost 5 years' worth
of real world experience, but I can't seem to graduate for the life of
me. Is there anyone who can give me hints on background research?
 
E

Elspeth Thorne

anonaki said:
I will be graduating soon with a BS in computer science. However, I
feel unprepared for the real world. I've done small programming
projects on my own and did school projects, but I was never exposed to
what goes on in a real world programming environment.. Internships
were not too useful.. mostly web related stuff in html or flash.. not
any robust web or distributed apps were introduced to us. Plus with
all the jobs being shipped outside the U.S. (where I live), i'm
becoming a little disillusioned with programming as a whole now. Of
those that I know that have graduated, many of them cannot find a
decent programming job. Plus many of them don't know anything. My
knowledge is strongest in the Java langauge, I have experience with
C++,C,and PhP. But I do understand programming concepts. I have a non
programming job making a about $33,000/yr. I have been able to live
fine with that. What i'm asking for is some examples of things that
the professionals are doing. I'll appreciate some brief examples of
projects, assignments, or things that are done on a day to day basis
by those who are working. This can be in any language or platform.
Any little tidbit will be useful. I'm gonna try to boost up my skill
level on my own from the insight that I get from you all. I wanna get
my mind out of the limits of the class room and get a feel of whats
happening out there.

thanks.

Work on your communication skills. Especially with all the offshore
outsourcing going on, someone who can communicate their ideas well in a written
format is valuable. Simple things like grammar, spelling and sentence structure
are important, especially if you will be communicating with people whose first
language is not the same as yours.

If you want some experience in the real world, join a few opensource projects.
Sure, you won't get paid for it, but you will develop skills in communication
and coding. Also, if you make significant contributions, you can probably use
that as a selling point on your CV.

As for real-world applications, in the recent past I've developed an e-commerce
site (perl/PhP/MySQL, which was boring), done a significant upgrade to a
Computer-Aided Manufacturing System (VBA/Access, which was painful...how I hate
working with old code) and am currently working on a project to be used in the
diagnosis of mental illnesses (J2EE/C++/XML/perl/MySQL/UML, much more interesting).

And I graduate (with a BEng(Software)) in a month.

I'm looking forward to the industry, and getting my evenings back.

Elspeth.
 
E

Elspeth Thorne

Ed said:
In my opinion, schools teaching computer 'science' without teaching best
practices in process are doing our industry a great disservice. They
should be required courses!

Hmm.

They were core subjects taught very early on in my degree. I would hope that it
isn't unusual, but it would explain a lot.


Elspeth.
 
J

Jonathan G Campbell

CBFalconer said:
Try speaking and writing English first. 'gonna' and 'wanna' leave
the immediate impression of some poorly educated and/or careless
slob.

And please learn to use paragraphs. I didn't even notice the 'gonna'
and 'wanna' -- because my 'paragraph buffer' aka 'single coherent idea
buffer' overflowed long before I got to them.

Deep down, I have this prejudice that someone who cannot properly
structure natural language will probably have difficulty structuring a
program. And, conversely, I have the impression, in the absence of
other information, that excellence in natural language writing is a
reasonable indication of programming potential.

OTOH, the OP's English was better and more careful than most Usenet
posts.

As for advice on how to better your job chances, the OP is very wise
to seek ways to enhance his skill. Once he is more than three months
without a computing job, he must show employers that he has been
actively working on his skills. In other words, the fact that you have
been teaching yourself X, or developing software to do Y, with special
emphasis on Z (e.g. unit testing using XX, or version control using
XYZ, ...) will jump up out of a CV or application cover letter and
grab an employer by the throat. For a start it says that you are
interested in [whatever] and secondly it says that you can take the
initiative and operate on your own.

What to do? Well, (a) what sort of job is your goal? (b) Is there
something in the program line that you would really like to do? Etc.
Once you've decided that, this n.g. could get a lot of help on the
details. But it won't be easy.

All the best,

Jon C.
 
J

Joona I Palaste

Richard Chrenko <[email protected]> scribbled the following
Why are you limiting yourself to "programming jobs?" In my opinion, you
don't need a BS to be a programmer - although programmers do seem to
generate heaps of BS :). The degree you are getting (hopefully) provided
you with the latest knowledge of the entire software development cycle
including market research, requirements generation, software architecture
and design, algorithm development, version control, testing and validation,
and deployment. Teenage hackers make good, cheap, and outsourceable
programmers, yet they would be completely lost at a challenging,
multidisciplinary software development job. Unless your goal is truly to be
a programmer, I suggest that you expand your horizons and look at what else
the field of computer science has to offer.

Because programming is fun? =)
In both my University classes and my real jobs, I have been the happiest
when I can actually sit down and type program code. Everything else has
been seen only as a necessary evil.
This is also what is keeping me from finally graduating. I know how to
make programs. What I don't know is how to make a formal paper
justifying the need for a new program. Why can't universities accept
programming works instead of papers for a Master's Thesis?
 
R

rossum

Richard Chrenko <[email protected]> scribbled the following



Because programming is fun? =)
In both my University classes and my real jobs, I have been the happiest
when I can actually sit down and type program code. Everything else has
been seen only as a necessary evil.
This is also what is keeping me from finally graduating. I know how to
make programs. What I don't know is how to make a formal paper
justifying the need for a new program.

I do a lot more of the "make a formal paper justifying the need for a
new program" bit and a lot less programming. (Burroughs Extended
Algol-60 anyone?) Without at least some understanding of the
justification for a programming project, its objectives, requirements,
costs, timescales, scope, return on investment etc. you will be a less
effective programmer. Program development has to live within the
organisation, it the program project cannot fit within the
organisation then it will be stopped.

rossum
 
S

steve

CBFalconer said:
Try speaking and writing English first. 'gonna' and 'wanna' leave
the immediate impression of some poorly educated and/or careless
slob.

And please learn to use paragraphs. I didn't even notice the 'gonna'
and 'wanna' -- because my 'paragraph buffer' aka 'single coherent idea
buffer' overflowed long before I got to them.

Deep down, I have this prejudice that someone who cannot properly
structure natural language will probably have difficulty structuring a
program. And, conversely, I have the impression, in the absence of
other information, that excellence in natural language writing is a
reasonable indication of programming potential.

OTOH, the OP's English was better and more careful than most Usenet
posts.

As for advice on how to better your job chances, the OP is very wise
to seek ways to enhance his skill. Once he is more than three months
without a computing job, he must show employers that he has been
actively working on his skills. In other words, the fact that you have
been teaching yourself X, or developing software to do Y, with special
emphasis on Z (e.g. unit testing using XX, or version control using
XYZ, ...) will jump up out of a CV or application cover letter and
grab an employer by the throat. For a start it says that you are
interested in [whatever] and secondly it says that you can take the
initiative and operate on your own.

What to do? Well, (a) what sort of job is your goal? (b) Is there
something in the program line that you would really like to do? Etc.
Once you've decided that, this n.g. could get a lot of help on the
details. But it won't be easy.

All the best,

Jon C.


Well i saw a block of text , thought does someone with a "BS" write that
way?
Then decided not to take the bait.
 
M

Matt

In my opinion, schools teaching computer 'science' without teaching best
practices in process are doing our industry a great disservice. They
should be required courses!

I agree. Computer science major doesn't focus too much on Software
Engineering. Well, I think software engineering is a required course
in computer science though. I prefer to have a degree in software
engineering, rather than computer science. Of course, computer science
graduates can go to many different fields rather than just software
development.
 
K

Karl von Laudermann

steve said:
Well i saw a block of text , thought does someone with a "BS" write that
way?
Then decided not to take the bait.

I think you meant:

Well, I saw a block of text and thought, "Does someone with a BS write
that way?" Then I decided not to take the bait.
 
C

ChrisMM

I will be graduating soon with a BS in computer science. However, I
feel unprepared for the real world. I've done small programming
projects on my own and did school projects, but I was never exposed to
what goes on in a real world programming environment.. Internships
were not too useful.. mostly web related stuff in html or flash.. not
any robust web or distributed apps were introduced to us. Plus with
all the jobs being shipped outside the U.S. (where I live), i'm
becoming a little disillusioned with programming as a whole now. Of
those that I know that have graduated, many of them cannot find a
decent programming job. Plus many of them don't know anything. My
knowledge is strongest in the Java langauge, I have experience with
C++,C,and PhP. But I do understand programming concepts. I have a non
programming job making a about $33,000/yr. I have been able to live
fine with that. What i'm asking for is some examples of things that
the professionals are doing. I'll appreciate some brief examples of
projects, assignments, or things that are done on a day to day basis
by those who are working. This can be in any language or platform.
Any little tidbit will be useful. I'm gonna try to boost up my skill
level on my own from the insight that I get from you all. I wanna get
my mind out of the limits of the class room and get a feel of whats
happening out there.

thanks.

Train as a plumber so you can get a job and earn some decent money -
They cant outsource that to India...
 
T

Thomas Matthews

anonaki said:
I will be graduating soon with a BS in computer science. However, I
feel unprepared for the real world. I've done small programming
projects on my own and did school projects, but I was never exposed to
what goes on in a real world programming environment.. Internships
were not too useful.. mostly web related stuff in html or flash.. not
any robust web or distributed apps were introduced to us. Plus with
all the jobs being shipped outside the U.S. (where I live), i'm
becoming a little disillusioned with programming as a whole now. Of
those that I know that have graduated, many of them cannot find a
decent programming job. Plus many of them don't know anything. My
knowledge is strongest in the Java langauge, I have experience with
C++,C,and PhP. But I do understand programming concepts. I have a non
programming job making a about $33,000/yr. I have been able to live
fine with that. What i'm asking for is some examples of things that
the professionals are doing. I'll appreciate some brief examples of
projects, assignments, or things that are done on a day to day basis
by those who are working. This can be in any language or platform.
Any little tidbit will be useful. I'm gonna try to boost up my skill
level on my own from the insight that I get from you all. I wanna get
my mind out of the limits of the class room and get a feel of whats
happening out there.

thanks.

In my company, a "code" is one who knows the language and data
structures. "Coders" are given designs to write programs to (or
write code modules). The coding task can be and many times is,
outsourced (to countries outside of the U.S.).

In the company, the ones who survive are the people who know
more than just coding and data structures. My department
focuses on embedded systems and cryptography. So we have
people who know hardware (how the electronics operate) and
people who know cryptography (some know both). Other people
are moving into the realm of Software Designers and Software
Architects. Whether the skills are in a specialized area,
such as hardware, cryptography, database, or advanced software
topics, one has to have these additional skills to survive.


--
Thomas Matthews

C++ newsgroup welcome message:
http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
C++ Faq: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite
C Faq: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/c-faq/top.html
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq:
http://www.raos.demon.uk/acllc-c++/faq.html
Other sites:
http://www.josuttis.com -- C++ STL Library book
 
C

CBFalconer

Karl said:
I think you meant:

Well, I saw a block of text and thought, "Does someone with a BS
write that way?" Then I decided not to take the bait.
^
Here there be missing a period. Just to continue the silly
picking of infinitesimal nits. The second comma is also highly
unnecessary. We can leave further comment to the next nit
harvester.
 
W

Willem

)> Well, I saw a block of text and thought, "Does someone with a BS
)> write that way?" Then I decided not to take the bait.
) ^

CBFalconer wrote:

) Here there be missing a period. Just to continue the silly
) picking of infinitesimal nits. The second comma is also highly
) unnecessary. We can leave further comment to the next nit
) harvester.

I don't know, the question mark may count as a period there.
And the second comma should actually be a colon.


SaSW, Willem
--
Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be
drugged or something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you !
#EOT
 
N

Noah Roberts

I went to school to get a degree in Comp. Sci. Along the way I joined a
martial arts class. I earned a black belt just before I graduated at 5
years (started with ATA and moved to AA and transfer to 4 year). My
sensei and I decided to go into business together and open up a dojo
near our homes. We decided to go full time on this and see what
happens. It has been a great success. We have filled up our studio and
are moving to a bigger place.

I really doubt I will find much use for my BS in CS. My knowledge of
computers has been somewhat helpful but nothing I learned in college (in
computers anyway, some electives have been very useful) has really
benefited me in what I now choose to do. We opened our studio before I
graduated and, though I finished, I really wanted to get the hell out of
school.

I don't make a lot of money (enough to buy a Soldano amp on credit and
get groceries) but it is a hell of a lot more fun than sitting in a
cubicle writing bugs all day. Its a lot more rewarding also. Yesterday
we promoted a 5 year old little girl to her first rank above white. The
sparkle in her eye is was worth 100 paychecks.

There are times I don't want to go to work, just like everyone else, but
I usually enjoy myself. In all honesty, in all the jobs I have ever had
this is the best. I would be bored out of my mind working as a computer
programmer.

I have a few OS projects I work on when I want. Right now I don't much
because I need a break, but I will return to them. I also tutor college
students on the side for $15+ an hour but I only have 1 and probably
don't want more.

Anyway, don't be afraid to say "**** it" and do something else. A
college degree is useful outside of the industry you got your degree in.
Employers see it as a look into the level of commitment you have. It
certainly helps if it is a degree that can relate to the job you are
applying for, but it doesn't necessarily have to be.

Anyway, have to go back to work and teach kids how to roughhouse.

NR
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
473,744
Messages
2,569,482
Members
44,901
Latest member
Noble71S45

Latest Threads

Top