grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)

Discussion in 'Python' started by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. source at:
    http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser

    $ python grail.py (note the lack of "python1.5" or "python2.4")

    conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out.
    entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined. always
    a hoot to try browsing http://www.bbc.co.uk or http://www.youtube.com
    with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as
    grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written
    in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled].

    l.
     
    Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton, Jul 11, 2010
    #1
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  2. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    rantingrick Guest

    On Jul 10, 10:59 pm, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
    <> wrote:
    > source at:http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser
    >
    > $ python grail.py (note the lack of "python1.5" or "python2.4")
    >
    > conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out.
    > entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined.  always
    > a hoot to try browsinghttp://www.bbc.co.ukorhttp://www.youtube.com
    > with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as
    > grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written
    > in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled].
    >
    > l.


    Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i
    would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause
    here... a cross platform Python file browser! Yes i know there are
    tons of them out there already and Python is a bit slow, but i think
    it would be useful to many peoples.
     
    rantingrick, Jul 11, 2010
    #2
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  3. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    Aahz Guest

    In article <>,
    Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <> wrote:
    >
    >$ python grail.py (note the lack of "python1.5" or "python2.4")


    Congrats!
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    "....Normal is what cuts off your sixth finger and your tail..." --Siobhan
     
    Aahz, Jul 11, 2010
    #3
  4. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    Aahz Guest

    In article <>,
    rantingrick <> wrote:
    >
    >Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i
    >would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause
    >here... a cross platform Python file browser! Yes i know there are
    >tons of them out there already and Python is a bit slow, but i think
    >it would be useful to many peoples.


    As usual, you would rather tell other people what to do instead of doing
    any work yourself.
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    "....Normal is what cuts off your sixth finger and your tail..." --Siobhan
     
    Aahz, Jul 11, 2010
    #4
  5. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    rantingrick Guest

    On Jul 11, 9:01 am, (Aahz) wrote:

    > As usual, you would rather tell other people what to do instead of doing
    > any work yourself.


    Dear God! My statement was intended to fetch responses like...

    "Hey, that sounds like a great idea" or \
    "Hey, lets get hacking on this".

    I am so sick of you people constantly accusing me of being lazy. You
    don't even know me. Also i think you're really a bit jealous because i
    have the brass cohones to initiate a coding project without your
    express written permission. I will not allow myself to be brow beaten
    by anyone!
     
    rantingrick, Jul 11, 2010
    #5
  6. On 07/11/2010 07:44 AM, rantingrick wrote:
    > On Jul 10, 10:59 pm, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
    > <> wrote:
    >> source at:http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser
    >>
    >> $ python grail.py (note the lack of "python1.5" or "python2.4")
    >>
    >> conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out.
    >> entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined. always
    >> a hoot to try browsinghttp://www.bbc.co.ukorhttp://www.youtube.com
    >> with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as
    >> grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written
    >> in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled].
    >>
    >> l.

    >
    > Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i
    > would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause
    > here... a cross platform Python file browser! Yes i know there are
    > tons of them out there already and Python is a bit slow, but i think
    > it would be useful to many peoples.


    Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does "cross platform" involve UNIX and
    something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows?
    Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work. Well, it would work, but it wouldn't
    be any good. The UNIX and Windows concepts of "file system" are similar
    enough for most programs not to care too much, but for something like a
    file manager, that works intimately with the file system, trying to
    support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea.

    If you stick to common functionality, the program will be rather useless
    on both systems. Yes, you could *browse* the file system alright, but
    that's about it. If you attempt to be full-featured, keeping it in one
    code base, let alone in one user interface, is destined to be a
    nightmare and induce suicides.

    The above might have been very slightly exaggerated.

    Cheers!
    Thomas
     
    Thomas Jollans, Jul 11, 2010
    #6
  7. On 7/11/10 9:31 AM, Thomas Jollans wrote:
    > Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does "cross platform" involve UNIX and
    > something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows?
    > Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work. Well, it would work, but it wouldn't
    > be any good. The UNIX and Windows concepts of "file system" are similar
    > enough for most programs not to care too much, but for something like a
    > file manager, that works intimately with the file system, trying to
    > support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea.


    Indeed so.

    And you can't lump the Mac in with "UNIX" here, even though it really is
    UNIX at the foundation, because there's some very fundamental
    differences between HFS+ (and some other details that are higher level)
    and more traditional unix FS's. Not to mention that the Mac FS situation
    is slightly schitzo since it has two very different ways at looking and
    treating the files, the posix way and the Foundation way... and users
    think more in terms of the latter, usually. At least less sophisticated
    users.

    You can't do a cross-platform file manager without either doing a huge
    amount of work exposing each platform separately-- essentially getting
    separate codebases for each-- or doing a least common denominator
    situation, at which point I boggle: why the hell did you bother to begin
    with? Even Finder is better then that, let alone windows' Explorer.

    Even if you did the former... what the hell is the point, still? What
    real problem needs solving here that people should drop something and
    rally behind*?

    --

    Stephen Hansen
    ... Also: Ixokai
    ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
    ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/

    (*): I do not argue that a non-default file manager on an OS might be a
    great thing. I use Path Finder on the mac and have been very pleased
    with it for years, and consider its purchase money very well spent. Its
    hands-down the absolute best file management tool ever done, in my
    opinion. But really. When I'm using windows (or ubuntu), the only thing
    I miss is the drop stack(**). I'd *almost* consider a bare-bones LCD
    file manager which brought only a drop stack to windows and linux to be
    worth the effort-- except then I'd keep having to switch over to an
    entirely different program whenever I wanted to do permissions, since
    Windows and Linux have /completely/ different permission models.

    (**): The drop stack is a little corner of the window that you can drag
    files onto. Then drag more files onto. Then drag more files onto. Then
    you can navigate to another part of the system, and drag files off of
    said stack, in a LIFO manner, moving them as a result of this action.


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    Stephen Hansen, Jul 11, 2010
    #7
  8. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    Fuzzyman Guest

    On Jul 11, 5:16 pm, rantingrick <> wrote:
    > On Jul 11, 9:01 am, (Aahz) wrote:
    >
    > > As usual, you would rather tell other people what to do instead of doing
    > > any work yourself.

    >
    > Dear God! My statement was intended to fetch responses like...
    >
    >   "Hey, that sounds like a great idea" or \
    >   "Hey, lets get hacking on this".
    >
    > I am so sick of you people constantly accusing me of being lazy. You
    > don't even know me. Also i think you're really a bit jealous because i
    > have the brass cohones to initiate a coding project without your
    > express written permission. I will not allow myself to be brow beaten
    > by anyone!


    But why hijack someone else's announcement to do that? Congratulations
    alone would have been great. However good your intentions your message
    came across as "but it would really have been better if you had been
    doing something else instead...".

    All the best,

    Michael Foord
    --
    http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
     
    Fuzzyman, Jul 11, 2010
    #8
  9. On 07/11/10 04:59, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
    > source at:
    > http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser
    >
    > $ python grail.py (note the lack of "python1.5" or "python2.4")
    >
    > conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out.
    > entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined. always
    > a hoot to try browsing http://www.bbc.co.uk or http://www.youtube.com
    > with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as
    > grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written
    > in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled].
    >
    > l.

    Congrats!
    Are you planning to take over the world with grail and pyjs? :)

    --
    mph
     
    Martin P. Hellwig, Jul 11, 2010
    #9
  10. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    MRAB Guest

    John Bokma wrote:
    > Thomas Jollans <> writes:
    >
    >> On 07/11/2010 07:44 AM, rantingrick wrote:
    >>> On Jul 10, 10:59 pm, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>> source at:http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser
    >>>>
    >>>> $ python grail.py (note the lack of "python1.5" or "python2.4")
    >>>>
    >>>> conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out.
    >>>> entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined. always
    >>>> a hoot to try browsinghttp://www.bbc.co.ukorhttp://www.youtube.com
    >>>> with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as
    >>>> grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written
    >>>> in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled].
    >>>>
    >>>> l.
    >>> Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i
    >>> would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause
    >>> here... a cross platform Python file browser! Yes i know there are
    >>> tons of them out there already and Python is a bit slow, but i think
    >>> it would be useful to many peoples.

    >> Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does "cross platform" involve UNIX and
    >> something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows?
    >> Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work. Well, it would work, but it wouldn't
    >> be any good. The UNIX and Windows concepts of "file system" are similar
    >> enough for most programs not to care too much, but for something like a
    >> file manager, that works intimately with the file system, trying to
    >> support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea.

    >
    > Can't think of why not. Of course not all operations are shared by each
    > OS, but /I/ know that I can't do chmod on Windows. But it doesn't mean
    > that on Windows I can't make a file only readable by me. Just give me
    > the Windows security options on Windows, and chmod on *nix and I would
    > be very happy.
    >

    On Windows the root folders of the different drives could be treated as
    subfolders of a 'root' folder.

    > Especially if all can be done via a context menu a la RISC OS.
    >

    Ah, RISC OS!

    <rant>
    I'd heard how user-friendly the Mac was, but when I was first introduced
    to the Mac (circa MacOS 8) I was very surprised that even it still used
    old-fashioned Open and Save dialog boxes with their own little file
    browsers like on a Windows PC instead of drag-and-drop like I'd become
    used to on RISC OS. And that menu bar not even at the top of the window
    but at the top of the _screen_! And the way that bringing one Finder
    window to the front brought _all_ the Finder windows in front of the
    other windows! I was distinctly underwhelmed... :-(
    </rant>
     
    MRAB, Jul 11, 2010
    #10
  11. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    rantingrick Guest

    On Jul 11, 11:31 am, Thomas Jollans <> wrote:
    > On 07/11/2010 07:44 AM, rantingrick wrote:


    > > Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i
    > > would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause
    > > here... a cross platform Python file browser!

    >
    > Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does "cross platform" involve UNIX and
    > something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows?
    > Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work....<snip>... trying to
    > support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea.


    Why is that a bad idea, Python does it all the time? Many software so
    it all the time. This sounds like more fear than anything.

    If you attempt to be full-featured, keeping it in one
    > code base, let alone in one user interface, is destined to be a
    > nightmare and induce suicides.


    Thats False!

    > The above might have been very slightly exaggerated.


    Thats True!
     
    rantingrick, Jul 12, 2010
    #11
  12. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    rantingrick Guest

    On Jul 11, 11:57 am, Stephen Hansen <me+list/> wrote:
    > On 7/11/10 9:31 AM, Thomas Jollans wrote:
    > > trying to
    > > support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea.

    >
    > And you can't lump the Mac in with "UNIX" here, even though it really is
    > UNIX at the foundation, because there's some very fundamental
    > differences between HFS+ (and some other details that are higher level)
    > and more traditional unix FS's. Not to mention that the Mac FS situation
    > is slightly schitzo since it has two very different ways at looking and
    > treating the files, the posix way and the Foundation way... and users
    > think more in terms of the latter, usually. At least less sophisticated
    > users.



    Sure you can! Have you ever heard of a *rare* module by the name of
    "os"? Yes i know *nobody* uses it but it works nonetheless!

    > You can't do a cross-platform file manager without either doing a huge
    > amount of work exposing each platform separately-- essentially getting
    > separate codebases for each-- or doing a least common denominator
    > situation, at which point I boggle: why the hell did you bother to begin
    > with? Even Finder is better then that, let alone windows' Explorer.


    Nothing is worse than InternetExploder\Exploder, nothing! And whats
    wrong with seperate code bases, it's three modules and a startup
    script...

    if sys.platform == 'win32':
    import fm32
    elif sys.platform == 'darwin':
    import fmdarwin
    elif sys.platform == 'nix':
    import fmnix

    We just recently had a discussion about CONDITIONALS Stephen have you
    forgotten already?

    > (*): I do not argue that a non-default file manager on an OS might be a
    > great thing.


    Now you're talking!

    > (**): The drop stack is a little corner of the window that you can drag
    > files onto. Then drag more files onto. Then drag more files onto. Then
    > you can navigate to another part of the system, and drag files off of
    > said stack, in a LIFO manner, moving them as a result of this action.


    This drop stack sound interesting. I've always hated the cut paste as
    you could not add to the cut buffer.
     
    rantingrick, Jul 12, 2010
    #12
  13. On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 18:31:39 +0200, Thomas Jollans wrote:

    > Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does "cross platform" involve UNIX and
    > something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows? Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't
    > work. Well, it would work, but it wouldn't be any good. The UNIX and
    > Windows concepts of "file system" are similar enough for most programs
    > not to care too much, but for something like a file manager, that works
    > intimately with the file system, trying to support both UNIX and Windows
    > is NOT a good idea.


    Try telling that to the KDE people.


    --
    Steven
     
    Steven D'Aprano, Jul 12, 2010
    #13
  14. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    rantingrick Guest

    On Jul 11, 5:28 pm, Fuzzyman <> wrote:

    > But why hijack someone else's announcement to do that? Congratulations
    > alone would have been great. However good your intentions your message
    > came across as "but it would really have been better if you had been
    > doing something else instead...".


    Micheal i think you're just simply projecting some inner feelings on
    to my post resulting in a complete mis-understanding. And i *did not*
    say the project was useless, on the contrary i am very happy the OP
    resurrected this lost script. I only suggested a similar project that
    the OP *may* find to be interesting. Maybe not, but lets leave the
    decision for the OP, Ok.
     
    rantingrick, Jul 12, 2010
    #14
  15. On 7/11/10 5:01 PM, rantingrick wrote:
    > On Jul 11, 11:57 am, Stephen Hansen <me+list/> wrote:
    >> On 7/11/10 9:31 AM, Thomas Jollans wrote:
    >>> trying to
    >>> support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea.

    >>
    >> And you can't lump the Mac in with "UNIX" here, even though it really is
    >> UNIX at the foundation, because there's some very fundamental
    >> differences between HFS+ (and some other details that are higher level)
    >> and more traditional unix FS's. Not to mention that the Mac FS situation
    >> is slightly schitzo since it has two very different ways at looking and
    >> treating the files, the posix way and the Foundation way... and users
    >> think more in terms of the latter, usually. At least less sophisticated
    >> users.

    >
    >
    > Sure you can! Have you ever heard of a *rare* module by the name of
    > "os"? Yes i know *nobody* uses it but it works nonetheless!


    Uh, "os" is beyond inadequate. Even shutil is severely lacking. For the
    most basic operations, Python's provided tools basically work only in
    very simple cases -- but only those simple cases -- and a file manager
    would be an utter failure if it had those limitations.

    See the big red box on top of the docs:
    http://docs.python.org/library/shutil.html

    Copying a file without the resource fork on a mac, *can* result in
    essential data being lost (This is less common then it used to be). As
    simple a task as chown/chmod for posix systems to take ownership of a
    file and make it only readable by you is actually a *deeply* complex
    task with the win32api. Check out
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-win32/2004-July/002111.html for
    just an example of what it /looks/ like.

    That's not even getting into the nitty-gritty details, like how Mac's
    are *usually* case-insensitive, windows is always, linux is almost
    always not, and yet some power users go out of their way to enable
    case-sensitivity on mac filesystems (which has a tendency to break all
    kinds of things).

    Oh, and a LOT of the filesystem-details and how you could go around
    handling them on a mac is *very* dependant on just what version of OSX
    you have. It changes a lot.

    >> You can't do a cross-platform file manager without either doing a huge
    >> amount of work exposing each platform separately-- essentially getting
    >> separate codebases for each-- or doing a least common denominator
    >> situation, at which point I boggle: why the hell did you bother to begin
    >> with? Even Finder is better then that, let alone windows' Explorer.

    >
    > Nothing is worse than InternetExploder\Exploder, nothing! And whats
    > wrong with seperate code bases, it's three modules and a startup
    > script...
    >
    > if sys.platform == 'win32':
    > import fm32
    > elif sys.platform == 'darwin':
    > import fmdarwin
    > elif sys.platform == 'nix':
    > import fmnix
    >
    > We just recently had a discussion about CONDITIONALS Stephen have you
    > forgotten already?


    You underestimate the significance of the differences and how that would
    impact the resulting user interface; have you actually implemented
    anything which targeted the big three OS's and did non-trivial file
    operations? I have: just dealing with permissions and network shares and
    other details is actually a pain in the ass. And in the end, there's
    plenty of Explorer/Finder replacements out there which do their job
    splendidly. And I assume not everyone on linux loves nautilus and uses it :p


    >> (*): I do not argue that a non-default file manager on an OS might be a
    >> great thing.

    >
    > Now you're talking!


    Selective quoting to make it sound like I'm agreeing in some way with
    you = jerkoff move.

    --

    Stephen Hansen
    ... Also: Ixokai
    ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
    ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/


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    Stephen Hansen, Jul 12, 2010
    #15
  16. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    rantingrick Guest

    On Jul 11, 7:31 pm, Stephen Hansen <me+list/> wrote:

    You said about macs...
    > Copying a file without the resource fork on a mac, *can* result in
    > essential data being lost (This is less common then it used to be). As
    > simple a task as chown/chmod for posix systems to take ownership of a
    > file and make it only readable by you is actually a *deeply* complex
    > task with the win32api.


    And again...
    > That's not even getting into the nitty-gritty details, like how Mac's
    > are *usually* case-insensitive, windows is always, linux is almost
    > always not, and yet some power users go out of their way to enable
    > case-sensitivity on mac filesystems (which has a tendency to break all
    > kinds of things).


    And again...
    > Oh, and a LOT of the filesystem-details and how you could go around
    > handling them on a mac is *very* dependant on just what version of OSX
    > you have. It changes a lot.


    Well i've never used a mac and now i won't even bother for sure! But
    if you want to maintain the macfman code base feel free.

    > Selective quoting to make it sound like I'm agreeing in some way with
    > you = jerkoff move.


    *fakes throwing stick*
    *dog runs to get stick but stick not there*

    Who's smarter ;-)
     
    rantingrick, Jul 12, 2010
    #16
  17. On 7/11/10 6:10 PM, rantingrick wrote:
    > On Jul 11, 7:31 pm, Stephen Hansen <me+list/> wrote:
    >
    > You said about macs...
    >> Copying a file without the resource fork on a mac, *can* result in
    >> essential data being lost (This is less common then it used to be). As
    >> simple a task as chown/chmod for posix systems to take ownership of a
    >> file and make it only readable by you is actually a *deeply* complex
    >> task with the win32api.

    >
    > And again...
    >> That's not even getting into the nitty-gritty details, like how Mac's
    >> are *usually* case-insensitive, windows is always, linux is almost
    >> always not, and yet some power users go out of their way to enable
    >> case-sensitivity on mac filesystems (which has a tendency to break all
    >> kinds of things).

    >
    > And again...
    >> Oh, and a LOT of the filesystem-details and how you could go around
    >> handling them on a mac is *very* dependant on just what version of OSX
    >> you have. It changes a lot.

    >
    > Well i've never used a mac and now i won't even bother for sure! But
    > if you want to maintain the macfman code base feel free.


    I like how you tried to cut out my commentary on Windows and its
    difficulties and peculiarities, but you accidentally included it anyways
    -- hint: read more then the first line of a paragraph.

    My point stands.

    And I take your non actually responding to my actual point as a
    concession to it. With that, I'm signing off of this conversation.

    Tah.

    --

    Stephen Hansen
    ... Also: Ixokai
    ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io
    ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/


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    Stephen Hansen, Jul 12, 2010
    #17
  18. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    Fuzzyman Guest

    On Jul 12, 1:21 am, rantingrick <> wrote:
    > On Jul 11, 5:28 pm,Fuzzyman<> wrote:
    >
    > > But why hijack someone else's announcement to do that? Congratulations
    > > alone would have been great. However good your intentions your message
    > > came across as "but it would really have been better if you had been
    > > doing something else instead...".

    >
    > Micheal i think you're just simply projecting some inner feelings on
    > to my post resulting in a complete mis-understanding. And i *did not*
    > say the project was useless, on the contrary i am very happy the OP
    > resurrected this lost script. I only suggested a similar project that
    > the OP *may* find to be interesting. Maybe not, but lets leave the
    > decision for the OP, Ok.


    Plenty of people have told you in multiple threads how you come
    across. Eventually you have to realise that they aren't *all*
    projecting... :)

    Michael
    --
    http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
     
    Fuzzyman, Jul 12, 2010
    #18
  19. On 07/12/2010 01:44 AM, rantingrick wrote:
    > On Jul 11, 11:31 am, Thomas Jollans <> wrote:
    >> On 07/11/2010 07:44 AM, rantingrick wrote:

    >
    >>> Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i
    >>> would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause
    >>> here... a cross platform Python file browser!

    >>
    >> Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does "cross platform" involve UNIX and
    >> something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows?
    >> Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work....<snip>... trying to
    >> support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea.

    >
    > Why is that a bad idea, Python does it all the time? Many software so
    > it all the time. This sounds like more fear than anything.


    Python is not a file manager.

    >
    > If you attempt to be full-featured, keeping it in one
    >> code base, let alone in one user interface, is destined to be a
    >> nightmare and induce suicides.

    >
    > Thats False!
    >
    >> The above might have been very slightly exaggerated.

    >
    > Thats True!
    >
     
    Thomas Jollans, Jul 12, 2010
    #19
  20. Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton

    John Bokma Guest

    GUIs (was: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too))

    MRAB <> writes:

    > John Bokma wrote:


    [..]

    >> Can't think of why not. Of course not all operations are shared by each
    >> OS, but /I/ know that I can't do chmod on Windows. But it doesn't mean
    >> that on Windows I can't make a file only readable by me. Just give me
    >> the Windows security options on Windows, and chmod on *nix and I would
    >> be very happy.
    >>

    > On Windows the root folders of the different drives could be treated as
    > subfolders of a 'root' folder.


    Yup, instead of a single tree there is a forrest. Wouldn't confuse me,
    and I doubt anyone else.

    >> Especially if all can be done via a context menu a la RISC OS.
    >>

    > Ah, RISC OS!


    :-D.

    > <rant>
    > I'd heard how user-friendly the Mac was, but when I was first introduced
    > to the Mac (circa MacOS 8) I was very surprised that even it still used
    > old-fashioned Open and Save dialog boxes with their own little file
    > browsers like on a Windows PC instead of drag-and-drop like I'd become
    > used to on RISC OS. And that menu bar not even at the top of the window
    > but at the top of the _screen_! And the way that bringing one Finder
    > window to the front brought _all_ the Finder windows in front of the
    > other windows! I was distinctly underwhelmed... :-(
    > </rant>


    It's on top of the screen because of Fitts's law: it's easier to move
    accurately to the top of the screen than to the top of the window
    (unless it's located in the top or bottom of the screen). However,
    personally I think that a context menu even scores better: it's easier
    to click a mouse button than to roll up and then move to the correct
    menu entry.

    Yes, RISC OS has some very good ideas:

    1) context menus instead of menus at the top of the Windows/screen
    2) clearly defined operations of each of the three mouse buttons:
    left = select, middle = context menu, right = adjust
    3) the ability to select items in a menu and keep the menu open
    4) drag & drop saving/loading (including between applications)
    5) direction of scrollbars depends on mouse button: left = expected
    direction, right = reverse.

    Based on this I would say that the designers of RISC OS understood
    Fitts's Law way better.

    I am aware of ROX but haven't checked it out yet.

    --
    John Bokma j3b

    Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
    http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development
     
    John Bokma, Jul 12, 2010
    #20
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