<h2> Odd Behaviour?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Gene Wirchenko, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Dear HTMLers and JavaScripters:

    [Note crossposting.]

    I do not know if my problem is HTML, JavaScript, my browser, my
    text, though I doubt it is me. But who knows?

    I have entered a text's code (HTML and JavaScript) which picks up
    various pieces of browser data and writes them to another window
    opened with
    whOut=open("","output");
    The HTML is generated with a series of whOut.document.write() calls:
    <html><head><title>Output Window</title></head><body>
    <h2>Browser Properties</h2>
    *****value of navigator.appCodeName***** *****value of
    navigotor.appName***** etc.<br>*****a couple more values*****
    <h2>Window Properties</h2>
    Frames: *****value of frames.length<br>

    The data displays like this:

    Browser Properties
    navigator.appCodeName value...

    Window Properties

    Frames: 0
    ....

    Note the blank line between the "Windows Properties" and "Frames"
    lines. Note that there is no blank line between the "Browser
    Properties" and values lines. Why not?

    If I enter static HTML approximating the lines, I get the blank
    line. If I generate static HTML approximating the lines, I get the
    blank line.

    What am I missing?

    Is my text relying on browser-defined behaviour? (I am wondering
    if I should have a paragraph tag there. The text does not have it,
    but if I add it, it then works. I would like to understand what is
    going on though.) Should I have the tag? If so, a pointer as to why
    would be appreciated.

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko
     
    Gene Wirchenko, Nov 22, 2011
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. 2011-11-22 7:09, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

    > I do not know if my problem is HTML, JavaScript, my browser, my
    > text, though I doubt it is me. But who knows?


    We would probably find it out rather soon if you gave us a URL.

    > Note the blank line between the "Windows Properties" and "Frames"
    > lines. Note that there is no blank line between the "Browser
    > Properties" and values lines. Why not?


    That's impossible to say without seeing the actual code. And of course
    this means that we need the URL of the page that generates the HTML code
    client-side.

    When you have an <h2> element in HTML followed by text content, there
    will normally be empty space, corresponding to one empty line or so, due
    to default styling (default margin-bottom for <h2>). Wrapping the text
    content in a <p> container normally has no impact on this, since by CSS
    rules, adjacent vertical margins "collapse" (i.e., the combined effect
    is the larger of the margins, not their sum).

    The default behavior might be affected by various factors, such as a
    style sheet in the document and markup errors.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Nov 22, 2011
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:09:07 -0800, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

    > Note the blank line between the "Windows Properties" and "Frames"
    > lines. Note that there is no blank line between the "Browser
    > Properties" and values lines. Why not?


    What does this look like:

    http://www.sined.co.uk/tmp/wirchenko.htm

    Note that I've wrapped all the text in enclosing block elements i.e. <p></
    p>. It's a personal preference of mine that text be encapsulated in such
    block elements, and that they be closed, even if it's not strictly
    necessary according to the standards. Partly because the first book /
    tutorial on html that I read back in the mid 90's said it should be done
    thus, and whether it was right or wrong at the time, and regardless of
    the fact that it may not matter with some versions, that's still the way
    I do it.

    Rgds

    Denis McMahon
     
    Denis McMahon, Nov 22, 2011
    #3
  4. On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:42:22 +0200, "Jukka K. Korpela"
    <> wrote:

    >2011-11-22 7:09, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
    >
    >> I do not know if my problem is HTML, JavaScript, my browser, my
    >> text, though I doubt it is me. But who knows?

    >
    >We would probably find it out rather soon if you gave us a URL.


    There is no URL. This is internal.

    >> Note the blank line between the "Windows Properties" and "Frames"
    >> lines. Note that there is no blank line between the "Browser
    >> Properties" and values lines. Why not?

    >
    >That's impossible to say without seeing the actual code. And of course
    >this means that we need the URL of the page that generates the HTML code
    >client-side.
    >
    >When you have an <h2> element in HTML followed by text content, there
    >will normally be empty space, corresponding to one empty line or so, due
    >to default styling (default margin-bottom for <h2>). Wrapping the text
    >content in a <p> container normally has no impact on this, since by CSS
    >rules, adjacent vertical margins "collapse" (i.e., the combined effect
    >is the larger of the margins, not their sum).
    >
    >The default behavior might be affected by various factors, such as a
    >style sheet in the document and markup errors.


    None. None that I know of. On the second, I have copied code
    from the second to the first, and I still see the behaviour. If I
    reverse the calls to DescribeBrowser() and DescribeWindow(), I get the
    same behaviour but now with the Window Properties, that is, the first
    <h2> and following is the problem.

    The doctype is a default provided by Dreamweaver 8. I do not
    know which doctype I should use so I have gone with the default.

    ***** Start of Code *****
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    charset=iso-8859-1" />
    <title>try6.html</title>

    <script type="text/javascript">

    whOut=open("","output");

    function SetupWindow()
    {
    whOut.document.write("<html><head><title>Output
    Window</title></head><body>");
    }

    function DescribeBrowser()
    {
    whOut.document.write("<h2>Browser Properties</h2>");
    whOut.document.write(navigator.appCodeName+" ");
    whOut.document.write(navigator.appName+" ");
    whOut.document.write(navigator.appVersion+"<br>");
    whOut.document.write(navigator.mimeTypes.length+" MIME types are
    defined. ");
    whOut.document.write(navigator.plugins.length+" plug-ins are
    installed.</p>");
    }

    function DescribeWindow()
    {
    whOut.document.write("<h2>Window Properties</h2>");
    whOut.document.write("Frames: "+frames.length+"<br>");
    whOut.document.write("URL: "+location.href+"<br>");
    }

    function DescribeDocument()
    {
    DescribeLinks();
    DescribeForms();
    }

    function DescribeLinks()
    {
    whOut.document.write("<h3>Links</h3>");
    whOut.document.write("This document contains
    "+document.links.length+" links:<br>");
    for (var i=0; i<document.links.length; i++)
    whOut.document.write(document.links.href+"<br>");
    }

    function DescribeForms()
    {
    whOut.document.write("<h3>Forms</h3>");
    for (var i=0; i<document.forms.length; i++)
    DescribeForm(i);
    }

    function DescribeForm
    (
    n
    )
    {
    whOut.document.write("Form "+n+" has
    "+document.forms[n].elements.length+" elements:");
    for (var i=0; i<document.forms[n].elements.length; i++)
    whOut.document.write(" "+document.forms[n].elements.name);
    whOut.document.write("<br>");
    }

    function FinishWindow()
    {
    whOut.document.write(
    '<br><form><input type=button value="Close Window"
    onclick="window.close()"></form>');
    whOut.document.write("</body></html>");
    }

    </script>

    </head>

    <body>

    <h1>Using Hierarchical Object Identifiers</h1>

    <p><a href="http://www.dilbert.com/">Link to Dilbert</a></p>
    <p><a href="http://www.xkcd.com/">Link to XKCD</a></p>

    <form>
    <p><input name=TextField1 Value="Enter text here!" /></p>
    <p><input type=checkbox name=CheckBox1 checked=checked />I'm
    checkbox1.</p>
    <p><input type=checkbox name=CheckBox2 />I'm checkbox2.</p>
    <input type=submit name=SubmitButton value="Click here!" />
    </form>

    <script type="text/javascript">

    SetupWindow();
    DescribeBrowser();
    DescribeWindow();
    DescribeDocument();
    FinishWindow();

    </script>

    </body>

    </html>
    ***** End of Code *****

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko
     
    Gene Wirchenko, Nov 22, 2011
    #4
  5. On 22 Nov 2011 13:25:34 GMT, Denis McMahon <>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:09:07 -0800, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
    >
    >> Note the blank line between the "Windows Properties" and "Frames"
    >> lines. Note that there is no blank line between the "Browser
    >> Properties" and values lines. Why not?

    >
    >What does this look like:
    >
    >http://www.sined.co.uk/tmp/wirchenko.htm
    >
    >Note that I've wrapped all the text in enclosing block elements i.e. <p></
    >p>. It's a personal preference of mine that text be encapsulated in such
    >block elements, and that they be closed, even if it's not strictly
    >necessary according to the standards. Partly because the first book /
    >tutorial on html that I read back in the mid 90's said it should be done
    >thus, and whether it was right or wrong at the time, and regardless of
    >the fact that it may not matter with some versions, that's still the way
    >I do it.


    Yes, it works. I already found that out. I am wondering if <p>
    tags are compulsory to be sure of correctness. I am trying to avoid
    cargo-cult programming.

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko
     
    Gene Wirchenko, Nov 22, 2011
    #5
  6. Gene Wirchenko

    Doug Miller Guest

    On 11/22/2011 5:37 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
    > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:42:22 +0200, "Jukka K. Korpela"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> 2011-11-22 7:09, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
    >>
    >>> I do not know if my problem is HTML, JavaScript, my browser, my
    >>> text, though I doubt it is me. But who knows?

    >>
    >> We would probably find it out rather soon if you gave us a URL.

    >
    > There is no URL. This is internal.


    Then please post a copy on a free hosting site somewhere. It's *far*
    easier to diagnose problems from an actual working example than from a
    description.
     
    Doug Miller, Nov 22, 2011
    #6
  7. 2011-11-23 0:37, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

    > There is no URL. This is internal.


    Then you should have set up a URL. It was more difficult to me to do
    that, since the code you posted here had some line breaks inserted by
    your newsreader and I had to fix the issues. But there it is:
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/test/odd.html

    >>> Note the blank line between the "Windows Properties" and "Frames"
    >>> lines. Note that there is no blank line between the "Browser
    >>> Properties" and values lines. Why not?


    This seems to happen on IE only, and if you refresh the Output Window, a
    blank line gets inserted. The same happens if you do F12 on IE 9. So it
    seems to be an IE quirk. It does not happen if the content is presented
    as a static document.

    And the quirk seems to vanish if you add <!doctype html> at the start of
    the generated document.

    > The doctype is a default provided by Dreamweaver 8. I do not
    > know which doctype I should use so I have gone with the default.


    In your code, the _generated_ document has no doctype declaration.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Nov 22, 2011
    #7
  8. On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 01:12:14 +0200, "Jukka K. Korpela"
    <> wrote:

    >2011-11-23 0:37, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
    >
    >> There is no URL. This is internal.

    >
    >Then you should have set up a URL. It was more difficult to me to do
    >that, since the code you posted here had some line breaks inserted by
    >your newsreader and I had to fix the issues. But there it is:
    >http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/test/odd.html


    It works for me.

    >>>> Note the blank line between the "Windows Properties" and "Frames"
    >>>> lines. Note that there is no blank line between the "Browser
    >>>> Properties" and values lines. Why not?

    >
    >This seems to happen on IE only, and if you refresh the Output Window, a
    >blank line gets inserted. The same happens if you do F12 on IE 9. So it
    >seems to be an IE quirk. It does not happen if the content is presented
    >as a static document.


    As I found. I was wondering if it were something I had done or
    not done.

    >And the quirk seems to vanish if you add <!doctype html> at the start of
    >the generated document.


    Yes.

    >> The doctype is a default provided by Dreamweaver 8. I do not
    >> know which doctype I should use so I have gone with the default.

    >
    >In your code, the _generated_ document has no doctype declaration.


    I added one, the same as in the generating document, and then it
    worked.

    Thank you.

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wrichenko
     
    Gene Wirchenko, Nov 23, 2011
    #8
  9. On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:41:06 -0800, Gene Wirchenko wrote:

    > On 22 Nov 2011 13:25:34 GMT, Denis McMahon <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:09:07 -0800, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
    >>
    >>> Note the blank line between the "Windows Properties" and "Frames"
    >>> lines. Note that there is no blank line between the "Browser
    >>> Properties" and values lines. Why not?

    >>
    >>What does this look like:
    >>
    >>http://www.sined.co.uk/tmp/wirchenko.htm
    >>
    >>Note that I've wrapped all the text in enclosing block elements i.e.
    >><p></ p>. It's a personal preference of mine that text be encapsulated
    >>in such block elements, and that they be closed, even if it's not
    >>strictly necessary according to the standards. Partly because the first
    >>book / tutorial on html that I read back in the mid 90's said it should
    >>be done thus, and whether it was right or wrong at the time, and
    >>regardless of the fact that it may not matter with some versions, that's
    >>still the way I do it.

    >
    > Yes, it works. I already found that out. I am wondering if <p>
    > tags are compulsory to be sure of correctness. I am trying to avoid
    > cargo-cult programming.


    It may be browser dependant, and depend on how each browser handles un-
    encapsulated as opposed to encapsulated text wrt stylistic presentation -
    and that might further come down to user preferences.

    It's old, but the following explanatory text from the HTML 3.2
    specification at <url:http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32-19970114#body>
    might shed light:

    "Most elements that can appear in the document body fall into one of two
    groups: block level elements which cause paragraph breaks, and text level
    elements which don't."

    This distinction was carried over into section 7.5.3 of the 4.01
    Specification, albeit worded slightly differently:

    "By default, block-level elements are formatted differently than inline
    elements. Generally, block-level elements begin on new lines, inline
    elements do not."

    Of course, how exactly a browser interprets "begin on a new line" for
    some inline text after a preceding block element (eg a header) is a
    matter for the browser - some might insert a margin relating to the
    previous block element, some might consider that the preceding block
    element implies a new-line after regardless of what follows, others might
    not etc.

    Rgds

    Denis McMahon
     
    Denis McMahon, Nov 23, 2011
    #9
  10. Gene Wirchenko

    Doug Miller Guest

    On 11/22/2011 8:19 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
    > On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 01:12:14 +0200, "Jukka K. Korpela"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> 2011-11-23 0:37, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
    >>
    >>> There is no URL. This is internal.

    >>
    >> Then you should have set up a URL. It was more difficult to me to do
    >> that, since the code you posted here had some line breaks inserted by
    >> your newsreader and I had to fix the issues. But there it is:
    >> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/test/odd.html

    >
    > It works for me.


    Which is one *more* reason why you should set up a publicly-accessible
    URL demonstrating the problem. Please remember that for the future.
     
    Doug Miller, Nov 23, 2011
    #10
  11. In comp.lang.javascript message <gqamc7phm92nv5ln9je0cpbgr8f2tddr8l@4ax.
    com>, Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:09:07, Gene Wirchenko <> posted:

    >
    > I do not know if my problem is HTML, JavaScript, my browser, my
    >text, though I doubt it is me. But who knows?
    >


    Certainly part at least of the problem is you.

    You have not heeded the FAQ.

    You may have pasted, but you have not posted, executable code, clear of
    egregious error.

    You have not named your browser and OS, including versions.

    FYI: If, instead of using '+' to concatenate a literal string, ' + ' is
    used, the code is easier to read. Likewise ',' -> ', ', '=' -> ' = '.

    --
    (c) John Stockton, nr London UK. replyYYWW merlyn demon co uk Turnpike 6.05.
    Web <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html> -> Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
    Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm> : about usage of News.
    No Encoding. Quotes precede replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Mail no News.
     
    Dr J R Stockton, Nov 23, 2011
    #11
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. John

    Odd clientID behaviour

    John, Aug 20, 2003, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    379
  2. =?Utf-8?B?ZGhucml2ZXJzaWRl?=

    39th month? Odd DateTime behaviour!

    =?Utf-8?B?ZGhucml2ZXJzaWRl?=, Sep 2, 2005, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    478
    =?Utf-8?B?ZGhucml2ZXJzaWRl?=
    Sep 3, 2005
  3. Peter Charles

    Odd behaviour of link colours?

    Peter Charles, Jan 27, 2004, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    481
    Mark Parnell
    Jan 27, 2004
  4. Kulgan

    aspnet_compiler Odd Behaviour?

    Kulgan, Jul 21, 2006, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    404
    Kulgan
    Jul 21, 2006
  5. Michael Speer

    Odd behavior with odd code

    Michael Speer, Feb 16, 2007, in forum: C Programming
    Replies:
    33
    Views:
    1,105
    Richard Heathfield
    Feb 18, 2007
Loading...

Share This Page