Ha! They come back cryin'

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Adrienne Boswell, Mar 8, 2007.

  1. I did a site for someone a while ago, and for some reason they decided I
    charged too much, or I wasn't available enough, or it was a cloudy day, who
    knows? Anyway, they had a friend armed with Dreamweaver and a cheap price
    (free), redo the site.

    The new site's pages are all done in plain transitional HTML (with
    validation errors, of course), my pages were done in PHP (all valid HTML
    Strict).

    When searching in Google for Nick Mendoza, the first site is mine, and the
    sixth result is Mendoza Gomez & Associates - MG&A Team (team.php). It
    returns a 404 - because it's the old page _I_ did. I gave up looking for
    the new site at page 10 (with 50 results per page) - nothing, it's indexed,
    but who knows where.

    To make a long story short, the client called me tonight and wants me to
    "fix" it. I _love_ my life!

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, Mar 8, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Adrienne Boswell wrote:

    > When searching in Google for Nick Mendoza, the first site is mine, and the
    > sixth result is Mendoza Gomez & Associates - MG&A Team (team.php). It
    > returns a 404 - because it's the old page _I_ did. I gave up looking for
    > the new site at page 10 (with 50 results per page) - nothing, it's
    > indexed,
    > but who knows where.


    Did you look here?
    http://www.mendozagomez.com/

    >
    > To make a long story short, the client called me tonight and wants me to
    > "fix" it. I _love_ my life!


    Charge them twice your normal?
     
    Richard Formby, Mar 8, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Adrienne Boswell

    Paul B Guest

    On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:52:19 GMT, Adrienne Boswell <>
    wrote:

    >The new site's pages are all done in plain transitional HTML (with
    >validation errors, of course),


    Why of course ?
    I use transitional HTML and I don't have validation errors.


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    Paul B, Mar 8, 2007
    #3
  4. Richard Formby wrote:
    > Adrienne Boswell wrote:
    >
    >> When searching in Google for Nick Mendoza, the first site is mine, and the
    >> sixth result is Mendoza Gomez & Associates - MG&A Team (team.php). It
    >> returns a 404 - because it's the old page _I_ did. I gave up looking for
    >> the new site at page 10 (with 50 results per page) - nothing, it's
    >> indexed,
    >> but who knows where.

    >
    > Did you look here?
    > http://www.mendozagomez.com/
    >
    >> To make a long story short, the client called me tonight and wants me to
    >> "fix" it. I _love_ my life!

    >
    > Charge them twice your normal?
    >
    >


    That was going to be my suggestion. Sort of "I Told You So" fee.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Mar 8, 2007
    #4
  5. Adrienne Boswell

    dorayme Guest

    In article <Xns98ECDE7CE6DADarbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121>,
    Adrienne Boswell <> wrote:

    > I did a site for someone a while ago, and for some reason they decided I
    > charged too much, or I wasn't available enough, or it was a cloudy day, who
    > knows? Anyway, they had a friend armed with Dreamweaver and a cheap price
    > (free), redo the site.
    >


    > The new site's pages are all done in plain transitional HTML (with
    > validation errors, of course), my pages were done in PHP (all valid HTML
    > Strict).
    >
    > When searching in Google for Nick Mendoza, the first site is mine, and the
    > sixth result is Mendoza Gomez & Associates - MG&A Team (team.php). It
    > returns a 404 - because it's the old page _I_ did. I gave up looking for
    > the new site at page 10 (with 50 results per page) - nothing, it's indexed,
    > but who knows where.
    >
    > To make a long story short, the client called me tonight and wants me to
    > "fix" it. I _love_ my life!


    That must have been very sweet! Good on you.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 8, 2007
    #5
  6. Adrienne Boswell

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Paul B <> wrote:

    > On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:52:19 GMT, Adrienne Boswell <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >The new site's pages are all done in plain transitional HTML (with
    > >validation errors, of course),

    >
    > Why of course ?
    > I use transitional HTML and I don't have validation errors.


    Sure, it is not a necessary connection and you are the proof that
    it is not. But generally, to make a site from scratch today with
    transitional either suggests a lack of experience or confidence
    or a special rare good reason.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 8, 2007
    #6
  7. Adrienne Boswell

    Borek Guest

    Borek, Mar 8, 2007
    #7
  8. Adrienne Boswell

    Dylan Parry Guest

    Adrienne Boswell wrote:

    > To make a long story short, the client called me tonight and wants me to
    > "fix" it. I _love_ my life!


    I'd tell them to bugger off - in as polite a way as possible, of course.
    If they didn't have confidence in your ability the first time round,
    despite you being more than able, and they had the nerve to insult your
    work, what makes them think you'd want to work with them again?

    --
    Dylan Parry
    http://electricfreedom.org | http://webpageworkshop.co.uk

    The opinions stated above are not necessarily representative of
    those of my cats. All opinions expressed are entirely your own.
     
    Dylan Parry, Mar 8, 2007
    #8
  9. Adrienne Boswell

    mark r Guest

    On Mar 8, 9:24 am, Dylan Parry <> wrote:
    > Adrienne Boswell wrote:
    > > To make a long story short, the client called me tonight and wants me to
    > > "fix" it. I _love_ my life!

    >
    > I'd tell them to bugger off - in as polite a way as possible, of course.
    > If they didn't have confidence in your ability the first time round,
    > despite you being more than able, and they had the nerve to insult your
    > work, what makes them think you'd want to work with them again?
    >
    > --
    > Dylan Parryhttp://electricfreedom.org|http://webpageworkshop.co.uk
    >
    > The opinions stated above are not necessarily representative of
    > those of my cats. All opinions expressed are entirely your own.


    Charge em double for the effort - "my living costs have gone up" and
    "if you want it fixing in the next x weeks then you're going to have
    to pay for priority"

    lol

    mark
    www.neue.co.uk
     
    mark r, Mar 8, 2007
    #9
  10. On Mar 8, 1:00 am, "Richard Formby" <>
    wrote:
    > > When searching in Google for Nick Mendoza, the first site is mine...

    > Did you look here?http://www.mendozagomez.com/


    Personally I think both sites are bland and boring. and in both cases
    free is even too much to pay for them.
     
    Travis Newbury, Mar 8, 2007
    #10
  11. Adrienne Boswell

    Big Bill Guest

    On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:17:34 +1100, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Paul B <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:52:19 GMT, Adrienne Boswell <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >The new site's pages are all done in plain transitional HTML (with
    >> >validation errors, of course),

    >>
    >> Why of course ?
    >> I use transitional HTML and I don't have validation errors.

    >
    >Sure, it is not a necessary connection and you are the proof that
    >it is not. But generally, to make a site from scratch today with
    >transitional either suggests a lack of experience or confidence
    >or a special rare good reason.


    I have a special good reason; I don't wanna!

    BB
    --

    http://www.kruse.co.uk/internet-marketing-small-business.htm
    http://www.kruse.co.uk/google-mountain.htm
    http://www.kruse.co.uk/seo-tips.htm
     
    Big Bill, Mar 8, 2007
    #11
  12. Adrienne Boswell

    Big Bill Guest

    On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:52:19 GMT, Adrienne Boswell <>
    wrote:

    >I did a site for someone a while ago, and for some reason they decided I
    >charged too much, or I wasn't available enough, or it was a cloudy day, who
    >knows? Anyway, they had a friend armed with Dreamweaver and a cheap price
    >(free), redo the site.
    >
    >The new site's pages are all done in plain transitional HTML (with
    >validation errors, of course), my pages were done in PHP (all valid HTML
    >Strict).
    >
    >When searching in Google for Nick Mendoza, the first site is mine, and the
    >sixth result is Mendoza Gomez & Associates - MG&A Team (team.php). It
    >returns a 404 - because it's the old page _I_ did. I gave up looking for
    >the new site at page 10 (with 50 results per page) - nothing, it's indexed,
    >but who knows where.
    >
    >To make a long story short, the client called me tonight and wants me to
    >"fix" it. I _love_ my life!


    We love your life too, dear :)

    BB
    --

    http://www.kruse.co.uk/internet-marketing-small-business.htm
    http://www.kruse.co.uk/google-mountain.htm
    http://www.kruse.co.uk/seo-tips.htm
     
    Big Bill, Mar 8, 2007
    #12
  13. Travis Newbury wrote
    > On Mar 8, 1:00 am, "Richard Formby" <>
    > wrote:
    >> > When searching in Google for Nick Mendoza, the first site is mine...

    >> Did you look here?http://www.mendozagomez.com/

    >
    > Personally I think both sites are bland and boring. and in both cases
    > free is even too much to pay for them.


    View the source, Travis, I am sure this is really what Adrienne is bitching
    about. One of these 'sites' is a good one. The other is...
     
    Richard Formby, Mar 8, 2007
    #13
  14. On Mar 8, 7:13 am, "Richard Formby" <>
    wrote:
    > >> > When searching in Google for Nick Mendoza, the first site is mine...
    > >> Did you look here?http://www.mendozagomez.com/

    > > Personally I think both sites are bland and boring. and in both cases
    > > free is even too much to pay for them.

    > View the source, Travis, I am sure this is really what Adrienne is bitching
    > about. One of these 'sites' is a good one. The other is...


    I know that is what they were talking about. I on the other hand was
    looking at the sites from a visitors point of view, and thought both
    sites sucked. They were plain, boring, and If I were looking for
    someone to do some advertising for me, I would have left both sites as
    soon as they came up.

    There was nothing artistic or creative with either site. So one of
    the sites can be proud to know that it is not their HTML skills that
    drove their customers away. It was their pure lack of creativity in
    both cases.
     
    Travis Newbury, Mar 8, 2007
    #14
  15. Big Bill wrote:
    wrote:
    >>But generally, to make a site from scratch today with
    >>transitional either suggests a lack of experience or confidence
    >>or a special rare good reason.

    >
    > I have a special good reason; I don't wanna!


    Let us assume that your statement indicates you still use deprecated font,
    center and other such elements, and possibly tables for layout and all the
    other nasties, as these are the usual reasons to use transitional as against
    strict and still be able to validate.

    The following comments apply *exactly* to the difference between the two
    sites Adrienne has brought to our attention:

    I had a sit down with client the other day, to discuss the new site I
    started to build for her while ago[1]. She had changed her mind, as I knew
    she would[2]:

    Client: "I don't what that left hand menu with square boxes around the links
    anymore, I want a nice buttony nav bar at the top like my favourite singers
    web site and I dont like the gradient anymore and you were right we need a
    "headerish" thing and I want a new logo and *how* to I get listed at the top
    of google?"

    Took me nine minutes, in front of client and over a coffee, to change *all*
    of the presentational stuff[3], move the menu, change the colours, create
    the "header", the nice gradients on the nav bar, the colours and balance of
    the text/background. All in front of her. To her satisfaction. Almost no
    change at all to the HTML/CMS. Mostly simple CSS stuff.

    Client: "Crikey. That would have taken [other web drezigner] hours to do.

    But it took us another whole hour to redsign the logo to her satisfaction.
    Art, not mechanics.

    We are still working on the google thing[4].

    [1] http://australistrees.com.au/old/ (obsolete)
    [2] Women do that...
    [3] http://australistrees.com.au/ (may not validate, still in draft)
    [4] This is a CMS site. She enters the content, I am gradually teaching her
    how to enter google friendly content.

    Please feel free to critique the [3] site with the caveat: the template is
    *not* finished yet.

    Cheers,
    Richard.
     
    Richard Formby, Mar 8, 2007
    #15
  16. Adrienne Boswell

    tonnie Guest

    Richard Formby schreef:
    > Big Bill wrote:
    > wrote:
    >>> But generally, to make a site from scratch today with
    >>> transitional either suggests a lack of experience or confidence
    >>> or a special rare good reason.

    >> I have a special good reason; I don't wanna!

    >
    > Let us assume that your statement indicates you still use deprecated font,
    > center and other such elements, and possibly tables for layout and all the
    > other nasties, as these are the usual reasons to use transitional as against
    > strict and still be able to validate.
    >
    > The following comments apply *exactly* to the difference between the two
    > sites Adrienne has brought to our attention:
    >
    > I had a sit down with client the other day, to discuss the new site I
    > started to build for her while ago[1]. She had changed her mind, as I knew
    > she would[2]:
    >
    > Client: "I don't what that left hand menu with square boxes around the links
    > anymore, I want a nice buttony nav bar at the top like my favourite singers
    > web site and I dont like the gradient anymore and you were right we need a
    > "headerish" thing and I want a new logo and *how* to I get listed at the top
    > of google?"
    >
    > Took me nine minutes, in front of client and over a coffee, to change *all*
    > of the presentational stuff[3], move the menu, change the colours, create
    > the "header", the nice gradients on the nav bar, the colours and balance of
    > the text/background. All in front of her. To her satisfaction. Almost no
    > change at all to the HTML/CMS. Mostly simple CSS stuff.
    >
    > Client: "Crikey. That would have taken [other web drezigner] hours to do.
    >
    > But it took us another whole hour to redsign the logo to her satisfaction.
    > Art, not mechanics.
    >
    > We are still working on the google thing[4].
    >
    > [1] http://australistrees.com.au/old/ (obsolete)
    > [2] Women do that...
    > [3] http://australistrees.com.au/ (may not validate, still in draft)
    > [4] This is a CMS site. She enters the content, I am gradually teaching her
    > how to enter google friendly content.


    [4]

    Why a cms? Total overkill as it looks now. Use the time to teach her how
    to place content in HTML!


    --
    Webontwerp: http://vision2form.nl/webontwerp/
    Korte handleiding zoekmachine optimalisatie / gevonden worden:
    http://vision2form.nl/webontwerp/gevonden-worden.html
    Lifestyle - wonen reizen en genieten : http://vision4living.com
     
    tonnie, Mar 8, 2007
    #16
  17. Adrienne Boswell

    Rik Guest

    tonnie <> wrote:
    > Why a cms? Total overkill as it looks now. Use the time to teach her how
    > to place content in HTML!


    Hmmmz, a CMS is a real time-saver. Teaching a client HTML, billed by the
    hour, quickly becomes very expensive. Also, it would mean a lot of
    'helpdesking' for them, you can just count on the fact that they will call
    for every little problem they don't know how to solve.

    Most of my clients have better things to do then to learn HTML, but still
    want to be able to change content themselves.
    --
    Rik Wasmus
    Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
    Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel
     
    Rik, Mar 8, 2007
    #17
  18. Adrienne Boswell

    Paul B Guest

    On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:17:34 +1100, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Paul B <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:52:19 GMT, Adrienne Boswell <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >The new site's pages are all done in plain transitional HTML (with
    >> >validation errors, of course),

    >>
    >> Why of course ?
    >> I use transitional HTML and I don't have validation errors.

    >
    >Sure, it is not a necessary connection and you are the proof that
    >it is not.



    >But generally, to make a site from scratch today with transitional either suggests a lack of experience or confidence
    >or a special rare good reason.


    My site was made 3 years ago. Self taught and over 6000 pages. It is
    used a lot by schools etc, which don't always have the latest browser
    etc. I've no need to have it as strict, php, cms or any other fancy
    new idea.
    It works, why break it ?
    At least my site will carry on working - THAT'S what matters.
    Nothing to do with lack of experience or confidence.

    plh
    Paul

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    Paul B, Mar 8, 2007
    #18
  19. Paul B wrote:
    > On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:52:19 GMT, Adrienne Boswell <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> The new site's pages are all done in plain transitional HTML (with
    >> validation errors, of course),

    >
    > Why of course ?
    > I use transitional HTML and I don't have validation errors.


    Separate issues. The "of course", I understood, referred to the pages
    having been created in Dreamweaver.
     
    Harlan Messinger, Mar 8, 2007
    #19
  20. Adrienne Boswell

    Paul B Guest

    On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 10:20:33 -0500, Harlan Messinger
    <> wrote:

    >Paul B wrote:
    >> On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 05:52:19 GMT, Adrienne Boswell <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> The new site's pages are all done in plain transitional HTML (with
    >>> validation errors, of course),

    >>
    >> Why of course ?
    >> I use transitional HTML and I don't have validation errors.

    >
    >Separate issues. The "of course", I understood, referred to the pages
    >having been created in Dreamweaver.


    I use dreamweaver and handcode. Does it bother the visitor ? No. Do
    they care ? No.

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    Paul B, Mar 8, 2007
    #20
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