Ha! They come back cryin'

[Blinky the Shark]

They might not be bright enough to be humiliated without the additional
(and profitable) push of higher rates.

Father, may I suggest we use your opportunities to make a bit of
extra green stuff. I will get the customers and set it all up,
make the appointments, you will give them financial advice in the
confession box. We gain by saving on office rental, we get to use
the church facilities and the punters get more attractive rates.
You are the kind of priest I can do business with...[/QUOTE]

[knock, knock, knock]

Who's there?

Land priest...

 

[Richard Formby]

It takes about three minutes to learn how to use the CMS in question. In
fact with this client I didn't have to teach her. I told her over the phone
how to get into it and she immediately started using it. It's that
intuitive.

How many minutes of my *paid* time would the client have to invest in to
learn how to "place content in HTML", a skill she may never use again. And
for how many hours will she pay me to fix it when she breaks the HTML? If
she breaks the content then she can easily repair it herself.

And money. The clent does the content and tinkers with it herself. Why pay
me heaps of money to type in content or correct typos?

Depends highly on the CMS in use.
Agreed.

11 of the 12 points do not apply to my own brand of CMS on that list,

Agreed.

The very first point actually IMHO supports the use of a CMS. "The content
that you can manage is the on-page text". That is what CMS means. Content
management. Not web page management. Leave web page management (and SEO) to
the web designer. Leave the content management to the client.

The remaining points are moot. A good CMS *will* allow the client to change
the title of the page (part of the "content"), alt text, what links look
like and what is in them and all the other stuff.

Richard.

 

[Rik]

Hmmmz, a CMS is a real time-saver.

Agreed.

The very first point actually IMHO supports the use of a CMS. "The
content
that you can manage is the on-page text". That is what CMS means. Content
management. Not web page management. Leave web page management (and SEO)
to
the web designer. Leave the content management to the client.

Hmmmz, while that may be some definition of CMS I do not agree that it
shouldn't be altered. While most clients trust me enough to set things up
correctly, some may want to change some things. Close to total managment
of the site has to be possible. Anything that can be in a HTML document or
in the URL has be editable.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Paul B wrote:

Let me help you out
http://www.htmlhelp.com/cgi-bin/val...studio.com/studio.php&warnings=yes&spider=yes

Thanks, thats neat time-saver with whole site option.

 

[Paul B]

Paul B wrote:



Thanks, thats neat time-saver with whole site option.

no problem.
It only does a 100 pages though.
You could use an offline tool like "a real validator"
http:// arealvalidator.com/

hth
plh
Paul

 

[Richard Formby]

Hmmmz, while that may be some definition of CMS I do not agree that it
shouldn't be altered. While most clients trust me enough to set things up
correctly, some may want to change some things. Close to total managment
of the site has to be possible. Anything that can be in a HTML document or
in the URL has be editable.

We may have to agree to differ here. Client specifically requested to be
kept far away from all that webby stuff, just build me a web site please.
The fact that she can easily change her own content is a significant bonus.

Same for the plumber client. He has no interest in being able to fix his
truck. He just wants to be able to load dunnies into it. Same for his web
site. He just wants to put in the words, the content. He's happy too

Same for the ski club over at http://mulubinba.com.au/ - they are there for
the skiing, not the web development, but they *can* use a "text editor" to
put their own content up.

Richard.

 

[Rik]

We may have to agree to differ here. Client specifically requested to be
kept far away from all that webby stuff, just build me a web site please.
The fact that she can easily change her own content is a significant
bonus.

Well, as stated before, I hide/don't provide them directly usually. Indeed
most clients don't want to know. If they're needed, it's a matter of just
altering a few settings though.

 

[Toby A Inkster]

Err, uh, Rik? *Your* sig appears above because the sig separator needs
a space and a carriage return after it. As in mine below. ;-)

Rik's sigsep looks fine to me.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

* = I'm getting there!

 

[Rik]

Rik's sigsep looks fine to me.

Good to know Pan hasn't got the same trouble as Thunderbird, AFAIK it's
the only one. Then again Thunderbirds bug is fixed a few days ago it seems.

 

[Ed Mullen]

Dear Ed, you have a bug in your newsreader, I have a correct seperator:

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.2)
Gecko/20070222 SeaMonkey/1.1.1
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322089>

Please upgrade to the latest version.

--Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

I'm using SeaMonkey 1.1.1. Everybody else's sig appears correctly. The
equal sign after the "dash space" in your sig seems to be the problem.
If not, please elaborate as to what you think the problem may be on my
end.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

Good to know Pan hasn't got the same trouble as Thunderbird, AFAIK it's
the only one. Then again Thunderbirds bug is fixed a few days ago it seems.

Only in the nightly for SeaMonkey, should be released soon. It is only a
minor thing. It is funny that only your sig Rik breaks in SM, (aside of
the newbies and GG)

 

[Ed Mullen]

The 'equal sign' is a result of Quoted Printable, which, you can guess,
indicates a line-break.

Seamonkey is based on Mozilla's code, I suspect the same problem with
format=flowed, delsp=yes as Thunderbird has/had. I don't know how
related the products are at the moment. This forumpost seems to state so:
<http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=2774821&sid=aa547a4439dafa01fcfa98f7317890c2>


I don't know how you feel about upgrading (or if you already did), 1.1.1
is released 28-02-2007, probably it has the same bugfix as Thunderbird.
I do not see it in the list:
<http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/releases/seamonkey1.1.1/changelog.html>,
but as he states it's not certain this is all. I do see a few Quoted
Printable issues resolved.

--Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

Thanks, Rik. As I mentioned above I have already upgraded to SM 1.1.1.
Whether it has all the fixes needed, I don't know. I'll keep an eye
on it. Still, odd that your sig seems to be the only one giving the
problem to SM. Ah well, another one of life's great mysteries that
isn't really a problem. ;-)

 

[Rik]

I'm using SeaMonkey 1.1.1. Everybody else's sig appears correctly. The
equal sign after the "dash space" in your sig seems to be the problem.
If not, please elaborate as to what you think the problem may be on my
end.

The 'equal sign' is a result of Quoted Printable, which, you can guess,
indicates a line-break.

Seamonkey is based on Mozilla's code, I suspect the same problem with
format=flowed, delsp=yes as Thunderbird has/had. I don't know how related
the products are at the moment. This forumpost seems to state so:
<http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=2774821&sid=aa547a4439dafa01fcfa98f7317890c2>

I don't know how you feel about upgrading (or if you already did), 1.1.1
is released 28-02-2007, probably it has the same bugfix as Thunderbird. I
do not see it in the list:
<http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/releases/seamonkey1.1.1/changelog.html>,
but as he states it's not certain this is all. I do see a few Quoted
Printable issues resolved.

 

[Rik]

Only in the nightly for SeaMonkey, should be released soon. It is only a
minor thing. It is funny that only your sig Rik breaks in SM, (aside of
the newbies and GG)

Well, it's known to Opera users, as we hear it more often. I guess the
particular combination of types is not widely used.

The Mozilla like engines strip the space (delsp=yes) added in the content
to greedy, slurping op the space used in the seperator (which is an odd
exception to the rule in the specification of format=flowed). It does not
follow:

RFC 3676
4.3. Usenet Signature Convention

There is a long-standing convention in Usenet news which also
commonly appears in Internet mail of using "-- " as the separator
line between the body and the signature of a message. When
generating a Format=Flowed message containing a Usenet-style
separator before the signature, the separator line is sent as-is.
This is a special case; an (optionally quoted or quoted and stuffed)
line consisting of DASH DASH SP is neither fixed nor flowed.

Generating agents MUST NOT end a paragraph with such a signature
line.

A receiving agent needs to test for a signature line both before the
test for a quoted line (see Section 4.5) and also after logically
counting and deleting quote marks and stuffing (see Section 4.4) from
a quoted line.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

The Mozilla like engines strip the space (delsp=yes) added in the
content to greedy, slurping op the space used in the seperator (which is
an odd exception to the rule in the specification of format=flowed). It
does not follow:

Since in it fixed in the nightly I assume it shall stay fixed by the
next release

 

[Rik]

Thanks, Rik. As I mentioned above I have already upgraded to SM 1.1.1.

D'OH!

Well, at least it's a known issue, I'm quite confident it will be fixed
within a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

Also, an seo killer, see
www.kruse.co.uk/content-management-systems.htm

BB

As others have said, it depends on the CMS. I set up a quasi CMS for
Holy Family. They can only edit pages that have "iseditable" in the db,
and then, they can only edit within the <div id="content">...</div>.
The H1 is done programatically, and they do not have access to it.

I made this CMS for them, and it's dead easy to use, but, for some
reason, they still send me edits, and I get paid for it, so what the
hey, eh?

 

[Big Bill]

Depends highly on the CMS in use.
11 of the 12 points do not apply to my own brand of CMS on that list,
and soon I'll have an automatic sitemap generaror ready without needing
FTP access for this.

What's yours? Funny enough I just bookmarked that Smart Questions page
after finding it through another source today.

BB

 

[Big Bill]

It takes about three minutes to learn how to use the CMS in question. In
fact with this client I didn't have to teach her. I told her over the phone
how to get into it and she immediately started using it. It's that
intuitive.

How many minutes of my *paid* time would the client have to invest in to
learn how to "place content in HTML", a skill she may never use again. And
for how many hours will she pay me to fix it when she breaks the HTML? If
she breaks the content then she can easily repair it herself.


And money. The clent does the content and tinkers with it herself. Why pay
me heaps of money to type in content or correct typos?


Agreed.

The very first point actually IMHO supports the use of a CMS. "The content
that you can manage is the on-page text". That is what CMS means. Content
management. Not web page management. Leave web page management (and SEO) to
the web designer.

Leave the SEO to the web designer? Why would you do that? Anyway, in
this context, surely you mean the template designer?

BB

 

[Big Bill]

Hmmmz, while that may be some definition of CMS I do not agree that it
shouldn't be altered. While most clients trust me enough to set things up
correctly, some may want to change some things. Close to total managment
of the site has to be possible. Anything that can be in a HTML document or
in the URL has be editable.

Yup.

BB