Handcoding in just HTML and CSS

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Ian, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. Ian

    Ian Guest

    The resident spammer brought up an interesting question, though of course feeding him is a bad idea. So I thought I'd bring it up in a separate thread.. Personally, I can't make up my mind whether it's better to rely on a CMS (like WordPress), which I have no understanding of, or rely instead on my own abilities, and work in just HTML and CSS.

    I mean, what happens if I need to fix something? I can assume that WP doesn't *need* fixing, but then even in the realm of tweaking the code, I would be lost (as would a lot of other people).

    Also, in terms of loading time, I think there's more to it than just whether or not a dynamic page will cache. Handcoding results in smaller projects in general, at least with me, because I'm not going to have the skills to work with PHP and MySQL in the first place. There's not going to be tons of external files etc. When I sat down to re-do my eBook site myself, the amount of code probably lessened by 99%.

    Anyway, I come by here every day and see very little to read or comment on.Thought I would offer the group something to discuss. If no one is interested, sorry for taking up your time. :)
     
    Ian, Jun 1, 2012
    #1
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  2. Ian

    Mike Duffy Guest

    Ian <> wrote in
    news::

    > The resident spammer brought up an interesting question, though of
    > course feeding him is a bad idea. So I thought I'd bring it up in a
    > separate thread. Personally, I can't make up my mind whether it's
    > better to rely on a CMS (like WordPress), which I have no
    > understanding of, or rely instead on my own abilities, and work in
    > just HTML and CSS.


    FWIW, I have always coded the CSS, HTML and Javscript "by hand". For sure,
    it takes longer. But what you learn will always be more generally useful
    instead of just for building sites using a particular tool.

    --
    http://pages.videotron.ca/duffym/index.htm
     
    Mike Duffy, Jun 1, 2012
    #2
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  3. Ian

    Ian Guest

    On Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:23:56 PM UTC-4, Mike Duffy wrote:
    > FWIW, I have always coded the CSS, HTML and Javscript "by hand". For sure,
    > it takes longer. But what you learn will always be more generally useful
    > instead of just for building sites using a particular tool.


    I agree that it's best to learn to do it on your own, but what does that benefit the end user? All they care about is functionality.

    Playing devil's advocate a bit, but there it is. Hope you're well.
     
    Ian, Jun 1, 2012
    #3
  4. Ian

    Mike Duffy Guest

    Ian <> wrote in
    news::

    > I agree that it's best to learn to do it on your own, but what does
    > that benefit the end user? All they care about is functionality.


    It is possible to make a distinction between cost (money & time) of the
    initial deliverable as opposed to maintenance (money & time).

    Quicky & dirty is how Bill Gates made his billions. The initial Windows
    releases had competitors that were superior, but were either more
    expensive, or not quite ready.

    --
    http://pages.videotron.ca/duffym/index.htm
     
    Mike Duffy, Jun 1, 2012
    #4
  5. Ian

    Ian Guest

    On Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:13:03 PM UTC-4, Mike Duffy wrote:
    > It is possible to make a distinction between cost (money & time) of the
    > initial deliverable as opposed to maintenance (money & time).


    Well, I may not have posed the right question to begin with. I think, on the one hand, you have your own skill set, and maybe it's best to work within those parameters. To not rely on code you can't read and work on.

    OTOH, you have a community of coders who maintain CMSs and frameworks, etc., that are far more powerful, and maybe it's best to leverage someone else's knowledge. To rely on code that you couldn't write yourself.

    Which, that's not a question, per se, but I think you see what I mean. Hope you're well.
     
    Ian, Jun 1, 2012
    #5
  6. On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 02:13:03 +0000 (UTC), Mike Duffy wrote:
    > Ian <> wrote:
    >
    >> I agree that it's best to learn to do it on your own, but what does
    >> that benefit the end user? All they care about is functionality.

    >
    > It is possible to make a distinction between cost (money & time) of the
    > initial deliverable as opposed to maintenance (money & time).
    >
    > Quicky & dirty is how Bill Gates made his billions.


    And, look at the maintenance mess as a result.
     
    Allodoxaphobia, Jun 1, 2012
    #6
  7. Ian

    Tim W Guest

    On 01/06/2012 00:07, Ian wrote:
    > The resident spammer brought up an interesting question, though of course feeding him is a bad idea. So I thought I'd bring it up in a separate thread. Personally, I can't make up my mind whether it's better to rely on a CMS (like WordPress), which I have no understanding of, or rely instead on my own abilities, and work in just HTML and CSS.
    >
    > I mean, what happens if I need to fix something? I can assume that WP doesn't *need* fixing, but then even in the realm of tweaking the code, I would be lost (as would a lot of other people).
    >
    > Also, in terms of loading time, I think there's more to it than just whether or not a dynamic page will cache. Handcoding results in smaller projects in general, at least with me, because I'm not going to have the skills to work with PHP and MySQL in the first place. There's not going to be tons of external files etc. When I sat down to re-do my eBook site myself, the amount of code probably lessened by 99%.
    >
    > Anyway, I come by here every day and see very little to read or comment on. Thought I would offer the group something to discuss. If no one is interested, sorry for taking up your time. :)


    After some previous attempts to make sites with editors I finally taught
    myself a bit of hand coding/html/css. It is really the only way to do it
    imho, because unless you understand what the editor is doing you are
    just blundering around making a site which might look okay on the
    outside but if you ever have to update it or alter it it will be a desaster.

    I am also using a CMS for all my sites now - it isn't an ether/or
    proposition. If you can read and write the css & html then you can
    really do good work with a CMS constructing your own themes and making
    sure the content is displays like what it ought to. You don't need to
    learn the php stuff. I have been using a fast, lightweight, opensource
    CMS ( http://get-simple.info/ ) for reasons of economy. I must take a
    look at Wordpress one day soon.

    I am finding it good fun and not too hard and I might go pro soon.

    Tim W
     
    Tim W, Jun 1, 2012
    #7
  8. Ian

    Tim W Guest

    On 01/06/2012 03:13, Mike Duffy wrote:
    > Quicky & dirty is how Bill Gates made his billions. The initial
    > Windows releases had competitors that were superior, but were either
    > more expensive, or not quite ready.


    What were they? I remember having a copy of OS/2 on my desk, but it
    didn't seem worth trying it out iirc.

    Tim w
     
    Tim W, Jun 1, 2012
    #8
  9. Ian

    Tim W Guest

    Tim W, Jun 1, 2012
    #9
  10. Ian

    Ian Guest

    On Friday, June 1, 2012 9:34:35 AM UTC-4, Tim W wrote:
    > I have been using a fast, lightweight, opensource
    > CMS ( http://get-simple.info/ ) for reasons of economy. I must take a
    > look at Wordpress one day soon.


    I've got a lot of experience with WP. It works great as a blogging platform, not so well as a general-purpose CMS. I managed to bend it to my will for my eBook site, but I wouldn't want to stretch it further.

    I agree that there is a third category: web design software that does things one can't do normally--but which is not supported by a large community, obviously. Just a community of one, and a lot of manuals. :)
     
    Ian, Jun 1, 2012
    #10
  11. On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 00:23:56 +0000 (UTC), Mike Duffy
    <> wrote:

    >Ian <> wrote in
    >news::
    >
    >> The resident spammer brought up an interesting question, though of
    >> course feeding him is a bad idea. So I thought I'd bring it up in a
    >> separate thread. Personally, I can't make up my mind whether it's
    >> better to rely on a CMS (like WordPress), which I have no
    >> understanding of, or rely instead on my own abilities, and work in
    >> just HTML and CSS.

    >
    >FWIW, I have always coded the CSS, HTML and Javscript "by hand". For sure,
    >it takes longer. But what you learn will always be more generally useful
    >instead of just for building sites using a particular tool.


    At what level? Coding. Someone whose value is reflected in the
    site content is going to prefer focussing on his level.

    I do not care much about the internals of my computer -- assuming
    it is working -- compared with how much I care about the level that I
    am operating at.

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko
     
    Gene Wirchenko, Jun 1, 2012
    #11
  12. Ian

    Mike Duffy Guest

    Tim W <> wrote in news:jqagha$un0$:

    >
    > What were they? I remember having a copy of OS/2 on my desk,


    That was one, the other was an Xserver that ran under DOS. I forget who
    made it, but it was a bit tricky to set up.

    Bill also has the good idea to release Office 4.3 in time to give people
    something they could use under Windows.

    --
    http://pages.videotron.ca/duffym/index.htm
     
    Mike Duffy, Jun 2, 2012
    #12
  13. Ian

    Tim W Guest

    On 01/06/2012 14:54, Ian wrote:
    > On Friday, June 1, 2012 9:34:35 AM UTC-4, Tim W wrote:
    >> I have been using a fast, lightweight, opensource
    >> CMS ( http://get-simple.info/ ) for reasons of economy. I must take a
    >> look at Wordpress one day soon.

    > I've got a lot of experience with WP. It works great as a blogging platform, not so well as a general-purpose CMS. I managed to bend it to my will for my eBook site, but I wouldn't want to stretch it further.
    >
    > I agree that there is a third category: web design software that does things one can't do normally--but which is not supported by a large community, obviously. Just a community of one, and a lot of manuals. :)

    So what is a good open source cms for a serious website? Joomla and
    Drupal are the other contenders I suppose?

    Tim w
     
    Tim W, Jun 4, 2012
    #13
  14. Ian

    Ian Guest

    On Monday, June 4, 2012 2:17:33 PM UTC-4, Tim W wrote:
    > So what is a good open source cms for a serious website? Joomla and
    > Drupal are the other contenders I suppose?


    I've had good luck with Joomla before. Definitely need to read up on how to use it, though. It's pretty big.
     
    Ian, Jun 4, 2012
    #14
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