Having problem with frames

S

Stubbo_of_Oz

I am trying out frames - not very conversant with them yet.

I got some coding from:-

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/frames.html

and adpated it to my needs and came up with this:-

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>A simple frameset document</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<FRAMESET cols="20%, 80%">
<FRAMESET rows="100, 200">
<FRAME src="head.html">
<FRAME src="contents.html">
</FRAMESET>
<FRAME src="mainpage.html">
</FRAMESET>
</HTML>

I have tried it out with very simple .html files with one word in
each.

The three .html files show up OK when I load into Netscape 7 but do
not appear at all in Internet Explorer 7


Any help as to why would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers ...........
 
D

dorayme

Stubbo_of_Oz said:
I am trying out frames - not very conversant with them yet.

I got some coding from:-

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/frames.html

and adpated it to my needs and came up with this:-

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>A simple frameset document</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<FRAMESET cols="20%, 80%">
<FRAMESET rows="100, 200">
<FRAME src="head.html">
<FRAME src="contents.html">
</FRAMESET>
<FRAME src="mainpage.html">
</FRAMESET>
</HTML>

I have tried it out with very simple .html files with one word in
each.

The three .html files show up OK when I load into Netscape 7 but do
not appear at all in Internet Explorer 7


Any help as to why would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

First put:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

at the top of your page and post it to a server along with your
other html files, which should have doctypes (not necessarily the
above one, perhaps:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

And then test and see and come back if need be.
 
S

Stubbo_of_Oz

First put:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

at the top of your page and post it to a server along with your
other html files, which should have doctypes (not necessarily the
above one, perhaps:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

And then test and see and come back if need be.
Click to expand...

G'Day Dorayme

Many thanks for reply

Those lines (<!DOCTYPE etc.) were in the files - I just didn't clutter
up my message with them :) Maybe I should have?

I loaded them up to server and, yes, they do work in IE7!!

So the question is, why does IE read them OK from a server but not
from my hard drive whereas Netscape does read Ok from HD? Very strange
 
D

dorayme

Stubbo_of_Oz said:
G'Day Dorayme

Many thanks for reply

Those lines (<!DOCTYPE etc.) were in the files - I just didn't clutter
up my message with them :) Maybe I should have?

I loaded them up to server and, yes, they do work in IE7!!

So the question is, why does IE read them OK from a server but not
from my hard drive whereas Netscape does read Ok from HD? Very strange
Click to expand...

There may be issues of case, make sure that capital letters are
the same in all the relevant names to do with your attempt here.
If it is not about this, then more info is needed.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
E

Ed Seedhouse

I am trying out frames - not very conversant with them yet.
Click to expand...

Don't bother learning them. They are a 1990's solution that never
worked properly and should now be totally avoided;
 
P

Paul Watt

Stubbo_of_Oz said:
I am trying out frames - not very conversant with them yet.

I got some coding from:-

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/frames.html

and adpated it to my needs and came up with this:-

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>A simple frameset document</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<FRAMESET cols="20%, 80%">
<FRAMESET rows="100, 200">
<FRAME src="head.html">
<FRAME src="contents.html">
</FRAMESET>
<FRAME src="mainpage.html">
</FRAMESET>
</HTML>

I have tried it out with very simple .html files with one word in
each.

The three .html files show up OK when I load into Netscape 7 but do
not appear at all in Internet Explorer 7


Any help as to why would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers ...........
Click to expand...

Frames are evil. 'nuff said.
 
D

dorayme

Ed Seedhouse said:
Don't bother learning them. They are a 1990's solution that never
worked properly and should now be totally avoided;
Click to expand...

They worked well when on the site for nearly everyone when the
site was competently written and managed. There has been no well
supported replacement for some of their best features and it is
now 2007.
 
S

Stubbo_of_Oz

Paul Watt schreef:
Stubbo_of_Oz said:
I am trying out frames - not very conversant with them yet.
Click to expand...
[snipped]

Frames are evil. 'nuff said.
Click to expand...

You know that, I know that
and we know why.
But does Stubbo know?
Click to expand...

What I know is that a lot of people SAY they are bad but I also know
that there are an awful lot of sites out there using frames seemingly
successfully.
 
N

Nik Coughlin

Stubbo_of_Oz said:
Paul Watt schreef:
Stubbo_of_Oz wrote:
I am trying out frames - not very conversant with them yet.
[snipped]

Frames are evil. 'nuff said.
Click to expand...

You know that, I know that
and we know why.
But does Stubbo know?
Click to expand...

What I know is that a lot of people SAY they are bad but I also know
that there are an awful lot of sites out there using frames seemingly
successfully.
Click to expand...

Ever heard the phrase, "where there's smoke there's fire"?
 
N

Nik Coughlin

Stubbo_of_Oz said:
Paul Watt schreef:
Stubbo_of_Oz wrote:
I am trying out frames - not very conversant with them yet.
[snipped]

Frames are evil. 'nuff said.
Click to expand...

You know that, I know that
and we know why.
But does Stubbo know?
Click to expand...

What I know is that a lot of people SAY they are bad but I also know
that there are an awful lot of sites out there using frames seemingly
successfully.
Click to expand...

Ever heard the phrase, "where there's smoke there's fire"?
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Stubbo_of_Oz said:
Paul Watt schreef:
Stubbo_of_Oz wrote:
I am trying out frames - not very conversant with them yet.
[snipped]
Frames are evil. 'nuff said.
Click to expand...
You know that, I know that
and we know why.
But does Stubbo know?
Click to expand...

What I know is that a lot of people SAY they are bad but I also know
that there are an awful lot of sites out there using frames seemingly
successfully.
Click to expand...

A lot of folks smoke, yet it doesn't make cigarettes any less deadly!

Seriously, there are plenty of examples of *very poor* websites out
there, but our job here is that hopefully there will now be one less!
 
S

Stubbo_of_Oz

Stubbo_of_Oz said:
There may be issues of case, make sure that capital letters are
the same in all the relevant names to do with your attempt here.
If it is not about this, then more info is needed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for follow up reply.

Case is identical.

And now something VERY strange!!

I was fiddling around with a file that worked in IE and one that
didn't and copied code from the working file bit by bit to the
non-working file to see if I could find a difference.

I ended up with two files (different names) that had IDENTICAL content
(confirmed this with a hex editor program to look at ALL the content,
not just the visible characters - both files definitely identical).

And the "non-working" file STILL did not work even though the
identical "working" file worked. (I'm talking about reading them from
my hard drive, not from a server.)

I even deleted all my IE history and temporary files in case an old
version of the non-working file was being read from there but it still
did not work.

(Both work in Netscape.)

Yes, I know you all say frames are bad and to forget about them but
being of a curious analytical nature I wanted to see what made one
file work and another not work. All I can conclude is that there is
something wrong with IE!! And I know a lot of you will say "Yes, there
is LOTS wrong with IE!!!"
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
N

Neredbojias

Paul Watt schreef:
Stubbo_of_Oz wrote:
I am trying out frames - not very conversant with them yet.
[snipped]

Frames are evil. 'nuff said.
Click to expand...

You know that, I know that
and we know why.
But does Stubbo know?
Click to expand...

What I know is that a lot of people SAY they are bad but I also know
that there are an awful lot of sites out there using frames seemingly
successfully.
Click to expand...

Frames are no more "evil" than javascript or anything else, but they should
be used intelligently. Yeah, it's a nice little saying, but that doesn't
make it true.
 
B

Blinky the Shark

Neredbojias said:
they should be used intelligently. Yeah, it's a nice little
saying, but that doesn't make it true.
Click to expand...

Saying something never makes it true, but saying something can
reflect that which is true.
 
E

Ed Seedhouse

Frames are no more "evil" than javascript or anything else, but they should
be used intelligently. Yeah, it's a nice little saying, but that doesn't
make it true.
Click to expand...

But there is as well as the "nice little statement" plenty of actual
evidence that frames are a bad solution to a problem and that CSS with
html can do it better. I, alas, have to maintain a frame based intranet
and I curse them nearly every day.

"Evil?" that's an over simplification. "Failed solution that doesn't
work wheras other better solutions are available", that's a pretty much
established fact.
 
A

Andy Dingley

Frames are no more "evil" than javascript or anything else,
Click to expand...

Frames cause problems. They _always_ cause these problems.

JavaScript doesn't have to cause problems until it's used in an "evil"
way. it is possible to use JavaScript correctly and avoid them.
 
J

Joe (GKF)

They worked well when on the site for nearly everyone when the
site was competently written and managed. There has been no well
supported replacement for some of their best features and it is
now 2007.
Click to expand...
The problem with frames is that they break the web.
I can imagine in-house intranet situations where they might be perfect,
but not for the web.
Go to http://graspages.cjb.cc then click on rant then click on frames,
or go http://graspages.cjb.cc/rant/framerant.php

And it's nice that our Prime Minister has endorsed shorter showers and
the purchase of rainwater tanks. Now, if and when he adopts nore of the
other 22 ideas (ad below in my sig), we might start to get somewhere.
 
D

dorayme

Joe (GKF) said:
The problem with frames is that they break the web.
I can imagine in-house intranet situations where they might be perfect,
but not for the web.
Go to http://graspages.cjb.cc then click on rant then click on frames,
or go http://graspages.cjb.cc/rant/framerant.php
Click to expand...

I had a framed site for years and it did not break anything, the
world went on fine and people got info from the web site and the
sun still shone. But it's ok I know what you are referring to.
All the ifs and buts and counterfactuals... I must make another
framed site one day for fun. But after I write up the essay on
The Magic of Tables to stir up the church leaders.
And it's nice that our Prime Minister has endorsed shorter showers and
the purchase of rainwater tanks. Now, if and when he adopts nore of the
other 22 ideas (ad below in my sig), we might start to get somewhere.
Click to expand...

You are a farmer right? Robust and all. So I add a little tip
that you and I might suggest to people but I would bet with
generous odds that our PM would not use it:

After the last pee at night, don't flush. Take a look in the
morning. If the bowl looks sparkling clean, the cistern is
leaking and you should fix it (often a worn seal)
 

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