help! dreamweaver!

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Bart van den Burg, Sep 27, 2003.

  1. Can someone please help me out here?

    I've been working with HTML since I was 12, and by now (19), I'm always
    writing my pages 100% validated XHTML 1.0 Strict.

    So, what's the problem, you're wondering, well: I'm in this new school now,
    where I'm studying "Digital Media Design", and there, I'm required to learn
    DreamWeaver in one of my classes. I've never used any Macromedia products,
    because I've always hated the (sorry if this is offending to anyone, but
    it's my opinion anyway) crap it produces!

    Well anyway, I asked my teacher if it was possible for me not to follow this
    class.
    At first he asked: well, don't you have to be able to write webpages?
    I answered: I write W3C validated XHTML...
    He asked, ok, so shouldn't you know about templates, so you don't have to
    rewrite every page on a layout redesign?
    I answered: Nope, almost everything I write is server-side
    Then he said: Ok, maybe you could stop following this class, but you should
    realize that about 80% of the website companies work with this program and
    won't have much use of you if you don't know how to work with it.

    Well, basically, my question is: is the latter true? Should I really learn
    DreamWeaver to get companies to want me? Also, I'm wondering if this study
    is the best for me, since maybe it's a bit to creative for a tech-person
    like me...

    Anyway, if anyone can give me his/her opinion on this all, i'd be thankful

    Bart
    Bart van den Burg, Sep 27, 2003
    #1
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  2. Bart van den Burg

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Bart van den Burg wrote:
    > I'm in this new school now,
    > where I'm studying "Digital Media Design", and there, I'm required to

    learn
    > DreamWeaver in one of my classes.
    > ........
    > Should I really learn DreamWeaver to get companies
    > to want me?


    Of course. You must be able to use the tools a company applies. DW shouldn't
    be a problem for you.

    > Also, I'm wondering if
    > this study is the best for me, since maybe it's a bit to creative for
    > a tech-person like me...


    You have to decide for yourself. But why started you such a study if your
    not creative???

    Regards, Nico
    Nico Schuyt, Sep 27, 2003
    #2
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  3. Bart van den Burg

    Adrienne Guest

    Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Bart van den Burg"
    <> writing in
    news:bl4peg$9bj$:

    > Can someone please help me out here?
    >
    > I've been working with HTML since I was 12, and by now (19), I'm always
    > writing my pages 100% validated XHTML 1.0 Strict.
    >
    > So, what's the problem, you're wondering, well: I'm in this new school
    > now, where I'm studying "Digital Media Design", and there, I'm required
    > to learn DreamWeaver in one of my classes. I've never used any
    > Macromedia products, because I've always hated the (sorry if this is
    > offending to anyone, but it's my opinion anyway) crap it produces!
    >
    > Well anyway, I asked my teacher if it was possible for me not to follow
    > this class.
    > At first he asked: well, don't you have to be able to write webpages?
    > I answered: I write W3C validated XHTML...
    > He asked, ok, so shouldn't you know about templates, so you don't have
    > to rewrite every page on a layout redesign?
    > I answered: Nope, almost everything I write is server-side
    > Then he said: Ok, maybe you could stop following this class, but you
    > should realize that about 80% of the website companies work with this
    > program and won't have much use of you if you don't know how to work
    > with it.
    >
    > Well, basically, my question is: is the latter true? Should I really
    > learn DreamWeaver to get companies to want me? Also, I'm wondering if
    > this study is the best for me, since maybe it's a bit to creative for a
    > tech-person like me...
    >
    > Anyway, if anyone can give me his/her opinion on this all, i'd be
    > thankful
    >
    > Bart
    >
    >
    >


    Humor him. You can always go into code mode, nobody the wiser. Besides,
    it might be fun to learn a new way of doing things. Maybe you can even
    give some pointers.

    I've been in this position myself. I had to attend a telephone system
    class, and although I knew more than the teacher, I still picked up a few
    things that served me well later.
    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    Please respond to the group so others can share
    http://www.arbpen.com
    Adrienne, Sep 27, 2003
    #3
  4. ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Nico Schuyt" <>
    Newsgroups: alt.html
    Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 10:07 PM
    Subject: Re: help! dreamweaver!


    > Bart van den Burg wrote:
    > > I'm in this new school now,
    > > where I'm studying "Digital Media Design", and there, I'm required to

    > learn
    > > DreamWeaver in one of my classes.
    > > ........
    > > Should I really learn DreamWeaver to get companies
    > > to want me?

    >
    > Of course. You must be able to use the tools a company applies. DW

    shouldn't
    > be a problem for you.
    >
    > > Also, I'm wondering if
    > > this study is the best for me, since maybe it's a bit to creative for
    > > a tech-person like me...

    >
    > You have to decide for yourself. But why started you such a study if your
    > not creative???


    Actually, I was hoping to become a little more creative, but now that the
    schoolyear has started... I'm not really sure anymore.

    I guess I should be learning dreamweaver then... even tho the fact that it
    (the version I'm using anyway) uses attributes instead of style attributes
    way too often scares the hell out of me :(

    I'll just see what comes from it. I'll just follow the lessons, and try to
    evaluate for myself if this study is right for me...

    thanks Nico & Adrienne
    Bart van den Burg, Sep 27, 2003
    #4
  5. Bart van den Burg schrieb:
    >
    > Can someone please help me out here?
    >
    > I've been working with HTML since I was 12, and by now (19), I'm always
    > writing my pages 100% validated XHTML 1.0 Strict.
    >
    > Well, basically, my question is: is the latter true? Should I really learn
    > DreamWeaver to get companies to want me?


    The problem is that the folks hiring you are often clueless managers
    that wouldn't know tag soup from pot noodles. So they just write in
    their ads whatever the management magazine tells them is the latest and
    greatest software.

    That said, many companies do indeed use Dreamweaver, and if you want to
    work with such a company, you'll have to learn it. But it's no big deal.
    And DW is actually quite a good tool, IMHO - but there are dozens of
    threads on the subject of DW already :).


    > Also, I'm wondering if this study is the best for me, since
    > maybe it's a bit to creative for a tech-person like me...


    School already started? You're a bit late for this question :). Just
    learn as much as you can. You don't have to be "creative" to learn the
    techniques and methodologies of design.


    Matthias
    Matthias Gutfeldt, Sep 27, 2003
    #5
  6. Bart van den Burg

    Kevin Scholl Guest

    Bart van den Burg wrote:

    > Can someone please help me out here?
    >
    > I've been working with HTML since I was 12, and by now (19), I'm always
    > writing my pages 100% validated XHTML 1.0 Strict.
    >
    > So, what's the problem, you're wondering, well: I'm in this new school now,
    > where I'm studying "Digital Media Design", and there, I'm required to learn
    > DreamWeaver in one of my classes. I've never used any Macromedia products,
    > because I've always hated the (sorry if this is offending to anyone, but
    > it's my opinion anyway) crap it produces!


    Bearing in mind that a couple minutes in the Preferences reduces such
    "crap" to almost, if not completely, nil. Of course, this is entirely
    dependent on what you're doing with the app (see further below).

    > Well anyway, I asked my teacher if it was possible for me not to follow this
    > class.
    > At first he asked: well, don't you have to be able to write webpages?
    > I answered: I write W3C validated XHTML...


    Dreamweaver MX and MX 2004 can do so.

    > He asked, ok, so shouldn't you know about templates, so you don't have to
    > rewrite every page on a layout redesign?
    > I answered: Nope, almost everything I write is server-side


    Which, I'll agree, is usually better done by hand or with specialized
    editors. Dreamweaver can generate some very tidy and compliant (X)HTML,
    but its native client-side and server code can leave a bit to be desired.

    > Then he said: Ok, maybe you could stop following this class, but you should
    > realize that about 80% of the website companies work with this program and
    > won't have much use of you if you don't know how to work with it.
    >
    > Well, basically, my question is: is the latter true? Should I really learn
    > DreamWeaver to get companies to want me? Also, I'm wondering if this study
    > is the best for me, since maybe it's a bit to creative for a tech-person
    > like me...


    Generally, no. Most companies will be more interested that you can
    successfully complete the work in a reasonable amount of time, not so
    much what you use to do it. That said, it's not a bad idea for you to
    have an understanding of how Dreamweaver operates and what it generates.
    It *is* pretty much recognized as the industry standard, so you're
    ability to work with what it produces can only increase your viability,
    particularly if you'll have to work with those who do everyting through
    the application.

    > Anyway, if anyone can give me his/her opinion on this all, i'd be thankful


    --

    *** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

    ======================================================
    Kevin Scholl

    ------------------------------------------------------
    Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
    ------------------------------------------------------
    We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
    the dreams...
    ======================================================
    Kevin Scholl, Sep 27, 2003
    #6
  7. Bart van den Burg wrote:

    > Can someone please help me out here?
    >
    > I've been working with HTML since I was 12, and by now (19), I'm always
    > writing my pages 100% validated XHTML 1.0 Strict.
    >
    > So, what's the problem, you're wondering, well: I'm in this new school now,
    > where I'm studying "Digital Media Design", and there, I'm required to learn
    > DreamWeaver in one of my classes. I've never used any Macromedia products,
    > because I've always hated the (sorry if this is offending to anyone, but
    > it's my opinion anyway) crap it produces!
    >
    > Well anyway, I asked my teacher if it was possible for me not to follow this
    > class.
    > At first he asked: well, don't you have to be able to write webpages?
    > I answered: I write W3C validated XHTML...
    > He asked, ok, so shouldn't you know about templates, so you don't have to
    > rewrite every page on a layout redesign?
    > I answered: Nope, almost everything I write is server-side
    > Then he said: Ok, maybe you could stop following this class, but you should
    > realize that about 80% of the website companies work with this program and
    > won't have much use of you if you don't know how to work with it.
    >
    > Well, basically, my question is: is the latter true? Should I really learn
    > DreamWeaver to get companies to want me? Also, I'm wondering if this study
    > is the best for me, since maybe it's a bit to creative for a tech-person
    > like me...



    Dreamweaver is the commercial web editor most commonly used in ad
    agencies and the like, so if you intend to work in the creative field,
    it's good but by no means mandatory to have some basic knowledge about
    how this tool functions, to have an idea about what it can and cannot
    do. However, if you know your way around HTML and CSS, you need not
    worry about your Dreamweaver abilities, though you should know about
    Flash and how to use and implement it. I have never heard of a company
    that insists you code your HTML in one particular tool and one tool only.
    If you do want to work in the creative field, though, be prepared that
    producing strict and validating code will usually not be your prime
    objective. Though it's a nice bonus.

    --
    Nicolai Zwar
    http://www.nicolaizwar.com
    Nicolai P. Zwar, Sep 27, 2003
    #7
  8. Bart van den Burg

    Richard Guest

    Bart wrote:

    > Can someone please help me out here?


    > I've been working with HTML since I was 12, and by now (19), I'm
    > always
    > writing my pages 100% validated XHTML 1.0 Strict.


    > So, what's the problem, you're wondering, well: I'm in this new school
    > now,
    > where I'm studying "Digital Media Design", and there, I'm required to
    > learn
    > DreamWeaver in one of my classes. I've never used any Macromedia
    > products,
    > because I've always hated the (sorry if this is offending to anyone,
    > but
    > it's my opinion anyway) crap it produces!


    > Well anyway, I asked my teacher if it was possible for me not to
    > follow this
    > class.
    > At first he asked: well, don't you have to be able to write webpages?
    > I answered: I write W3C validated XHTML...
    > He asked, ok, so shouldn't you know about templates, so you don't have
    > to
    > rewrite every page on a layout redesign?
    > I answered: Nope, almost everything I write is server-side
    > Then he said: Ok, maybe you could stop following this class, but you
    > should
    > realize that about 80% of the website companies work with this program
    > and
    > won't have much use of you if you don't know how to work with it.


    > Well, basically, my question is: is the latter true? Should I really
    > learn
    > DreamWeaver to get companies to want me? Also, I'm wondering if this
    > study
    > is the best for me, since maybe it's a bit to creative for a
    > tech-person
    > like me...


    > Anyway, if anyone can give me his/her opinion on this all, i'd be
    > thankful


    > Bart



    How'd you learn to write html to begin with or were you just born into it?
    A 12 year old writes server side stuff the first day in class? I don't think
    so.
    Ok so you learn how to use the program. Nobody says you have to use it
    elsewhere.
    Quite frankly, I think DW is over inflated on steroids.
    What can it do that you can't do with any other coding program?
    Who needs a program?
    All that matters in html is that the coding is valid, the page works the way
    it was designed to and people come back.
    Why pay hundreds of bucks for something exotic when a freeware program works
    just the same?

    I took a computer class one time and wound up knowing a lot more than the
    teacher did.
    At that time BASIC was the in thing. Yeah, I know, you're to young to know
    all the fun we had with BASIC.
    But I still took the class and did learn a few new things.
    One thing that royally ticked me off though was, the teacher didn't
    understand the simplest things about BASIC.
    She didn't know what a semicolon was for after a print statement.
    She didn't understand why the syntax of - if a<>b and c<>d then do this -
    doesn't work.
    When I said I knew why, she told me not to be teaching the class.
    So I let her figure it out on her own. Then told the other student later why
    it wouldn't work.

    His statement that "80% of web companies use it", is probably hyper
    propaganda put out by DW.

    Now why are you afraid to learn new tricks young grasshopper?
    Richard, Sep 27, 2003
    #8
  9. Bart van den Burg

    Mark Jones Guest

    "Bart van den Burg" <> wrote in message
    news:bl4peg$9bj$...
    > Well, basically, my question is: is the latter true? Should I really learn
    > DreamWeaver to get companies to want me? Also, I'm wondering if this study
    > is the best for me, since maybe it's a bit to creative for a tech-person
    > like me...

    I am an electronics engineer by education and have been doing
    software development for over 20 years. I can easily hand
    write a web page, but I prefer to use DreamWeaver.

    Just because a person is a techie doesn't have to mean that
    they can't learn to use DreamWeaver. I use it to do a lot of
    server side development with no problems at all.
    Mark Jones, Sep 28, 2003
    #9
  10. Bart van den Burg

    Mark Jones Guest

    "Bart van den Burg" <> wrote in message
    news:bl4tbq$jp5$...
    > I guess I should be learning dreamweaver then... even tho the fact that it
    > (the version I'm using anyway) uses attributes instead of style attributes
    > way too often scares the hell out of me :(

    Any version of DreamWeaver can be used to create CSS
    based pages and server side code. Use the code window
    for those things that can be hand written faster than DW
    can create the markup.
    Mark Jones, Sep 28, 2003
    #10
  11. "Richard" <anom@anom> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Bart wrote:
    >
    > > Can someone please help me out here?

    >
    > > I've been working with HTML since I was 12, and by now (19), I'm
    > > always
    > > writing my pages 100% validated XHTML 1.0 Strict.

    >
    > > So, what's the problem, you're wondering, well: I'm in this new school
    > > now,
    > > where I'm studying "Digital Media Design", and there, I'm required to
    > > learn
    > > DreamWeaver in one of my classes. I've never used any Macromedia
    > > products,
    > > because I've always hated the (sorry if this is offending to anyone,
    > > but
    > > it's my opinion anyway) crap it produces!

    >
    > > Well anyway, I asked my teacher if it was possible for me not to
    > > follow this
    > > class.
    > > At first he asked: well, don't you have to be able to write webpages?
    > > I answered: I write W3C validated XHTML...
    > > He asked, ok, so shouldn't you know about templates, so you don't have
    > > to
    > > rewrite every page on a layout redesign?
    > > I answered: Nope, almost everything I write is server-side
    > > Then he said: Ok, maybe you could stop following this class, but you
    > > should
    > > realize that about 80% of the website companies work with this program
    > > and
    > > won't have much use of you if you don't know how to work with it.

    >
    > > Well, basically, my question is: is the latter true? Should I really
    > > learn
    > > DreamWeaver to get companies to want me? Also, I'm wondering if this
    > > study
    > > is the best for me, since maybe it's a bit to creative for a
    > > tech-person
    > > like me...

    >
    > > Anyway, if anyone can give me his/her opinion on this all, i'd be
    > > thankful

    >
    > > Bart

    >
    >
    > How'd you learn to write html to begin with or were you just born into it?
    > A 12 year old writes server side stuff the first day in class? I don't

    think
    > so.


    Nah, I actually started out with some WYSIWYG editor that came with
    Compuserve. After that I found hotdog, and with hotdog i found out that
    there's actually a source behind all those things i'm typing and all those
    images I add. Then I started doing stuff by hand, cause i just loved to see
    how some text i write could create a whole webpage. That's how it started. I
    only started to learn server-side (Perl) when I was 15 or 16. Not long after
    that, I found out about www.w3.org.

    > Ok so you learn how to use the program. Nobody says you have to use it
    > elsewhere.
    > Quite frankly, I think DW is over inflated on steroids.
    > What can it do that you can't do with any other coding program?
    > Who needs a program?
    > All that matters in html is that the coding is valid, the page works the

    way
    > it was designed to and people come back.
    > Why pay hundreds of bucks for something exotic when a freeware program

    works
    > just the same?


    I totally agree. Guess some people are just too lazy to realize it or
    something...

    > I took a computer class one time and wound up knowing a lot more than the
    > teacher did.
    > At that time BASIC was the in thing. Yeah, I know, you're to young to know
    > all the fun we had with BASIC.


    I had fun with BASIC, believe me :) I started doing BASIC when I was 8 or 9
    years old :)

    > But I still took the class and did learn a few new things.
    > One thing that royally ticked me off though was, the teacher didn't
    > understand the simplest things about BASIC.
    > She didn't know what a semicolon was for after a print statement.
    > She didn't understand why the syntax of - if a<>b and c<>d then do this -
    > doesn't work.
    > When I said I knew why, she told me not to be teaching the class.
    > So I let her figure it out on her own. Then told the other student later

    why
    > it wouldn't work.


    one of the few classes I actually enjoy is XML. My teacher knows all about
    w3.org, valid html, etc. he's just like me for that matter. And, he listens
    to what I have to add to what he says. I really like that. In the second
    lesson he was explaining about CSS, and we had to make some CSS. I wrote a
    selector like:
    ..classname[attribute="value"] {}
    and he saw it and asked me if that worked, which, i told him, it does
    (according to the standards, that is. Of course, IE just ignores it, but
    happily, Moz and Op support it). Next thing he does, is explain to the class
    that it's possible to do that :)

    > His statement that "80% of web companies use it", is probably hyper
    > propaganda put out by DW.
    >
    > Now why are you afraid to learn new tricks young grasshopper?


    I suppose I should just learn it. Probably for 2 reasons:
    1) I'm probably never gonna create my own pages in dreamweaver, but might I
    ever end up in some company in which most employees do use it, I'll probably
    have to work with their projects, and then I'll at least have to know how it
    works
    2) If I really want to argue with DW people about why I don't like it, it's
    probably better to know all about it.

    Thanks for your input
    Bart
    Bart van den Burg, Sep 28, 2003
    #11
  12. > If I really want to argue with DW people about why I don't like it, it's
    > probably better to know all about it.


    You'll probably find that there's really no point in arguing about it.

    Just walk away :)
    e n | c k m a, Sep 28, 2003
    #12
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