Help Needed

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Brian, Aug 14, 2003.

  1. Brian

    Brian Guest

    I am pretty much a neophyte HTML/XHTML person but I am finally away from
    using FrontPage.

    I have made several functional but ugly web sites, one of which is
    www.cornerstoneassembly.net and our Pastor would it to look like kind of
    like www.cag.org (just a coincidence that it has same name.) He would like a
    "family" motif but we both don't want to "copy or borrow" code. Looking at
    their start page, how was a lot of this created? Should I get some pictures
    and make a collage of them in Photoshop, etc?

    The site as it is now is just so plain...any suggestions (and please be
    critical) are appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Brian
     
    Brian, Aug 14, 2003
    #1
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  2. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Just noticed the Dreamweaver and Fireworks lines too. Hmmm...

    "Brian" <> wrote in message
    news:bhg7rg$dtsc$-berlin.de...
    > I am pretty much a neophyte HTML/XHTML person but I am finally away from
    > using FrontPage.
    >
    > I have made several functional but ugly web sites, one of which is
    > www.cornerstoneassembly.net and our Pastor would it to look like kind of
    > like www.cag.org (just a coincidence that it has same name.) He would like

    a
    > "family" motif but we both don't want to "copy or borrow" code. Looking at
    > their start page, how was a lot of this created? Should I get some

    pictures
    > and make a collage of them in Photoshop, etc?
    >
    > The site as it is now is just so plain...any suggestions (and please be
    > critical) are appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Brian
    >
    >
     
    Brian, Aug 14, 2003
    #2
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  3. "Brian" <> wrote:

    > I am pretty much a neophyte HTML/XHTML person


    What's HTML/XHTML? Wait... is makes 1/X, doesn't it? Or is it just
    division by zero.

    > I have made several functional but ugly web sites, one of which is
    > www.cornerstoneassembly.net - -
    > The site as it is now is just so plain...


    Are you just trying to get hits, or what? I hit the Stop button when I
    saw that my browser was loading some large images on a page with little
    textual content. But it managed to download some slideshow. Oh my,
    thanks for reminding me that I had carelessly left scripting enabled.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Aug 14, 2003
    #3
  4. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Sorry..I was expecting objective, constructive help from this newsgroup.

    :(

    "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns93D7C101DF197jkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31...
    > "Brian" <> wrote:
    >
    > > I am pretty much a neophyte HTML/XHTML person

    >
    > What's HTML/XHTML? Wait... is makes 1/X, doesn't it? Or is it just
    > division by zero.
    >
    > > I have made several functional but ugly web sites, one of which is
    > > www.cornerstoneassembly.net - -
    > > The site as it is now is just so plain...

    >
    > Are you just trying to get hits, or what? I hit the Stop button when I
    > saw that my browser was loading some large images on a page with little
    > textual content. But it managed to download some slideshow. Oh my,
    > thanks for reminding me that I had carelessly left scripting enabled.
    >
    > --
    > Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    > Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
    >
    >
     
    Brian, Aug 14, 2003
    #4
  5. "Brian" <> wrote:

    > Sorry..I was expecting objective, constructive help from this
    > newsgroup.


    Welcome to Usenet. Thank you for implicitly giving your definition of
    "constructive" with the upside-down fullquote. Also thank you for
    confirming my initial impression. HTH. HAND.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Aug 14, 2003
    #5
  6. "Brian" <> wrote in message
    news:bhg7rg$dtsc$-berlin.de...
    > I am pretty much a neophyte HTML/XHTML person but I am finally away from
    > using FrontPage.
    >
    > I have made several functional but ugly web sites, one of which is
    > www.cornerstoneassembly.net and our Pastor would it to look like kind of
    > like www.cag.org (just a coincidence that it has same name.) He would like

    a
    > "family" motif but we both don't want to "copy or borrow" code. Looking at
    > their start page, how was a lot of this created? Should I get some

    pictures
    > and make a collage of them in Photoshop, etc?
    >
    > The site as it is now is just so plain...any suggestions (and please be
    > critical) are appreciated.
    >


    Your site isn't really that bad, I think. And the one you are referring at
    is full of tricks you should not try to emulate, such as slicing graphics.

    Why not:

    - Change font-family: times, helvetica, arial; to font-family: arial,
    helvetica, sans-serif; in your style sheet;

    - Reedit the graphics in order to make them 1) lighter (in weight) and 2)
    fit in the area assigned to them;

    - Cut the XML decaration <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> (some
    browsers choke in it) and place instead <meta http-equiv="content-type"
    content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> in the <head> element;

    - Validate your site at http://www.htmlhelp.com/ and/or at
    http://www.w3.org/;

    - Buy an inspiring book such as _Eric Meyer on CSS_
    (http://www.ericmeyeroncss.com/);

    - Use your own site as a starting point;

    - And keep coming back!

    Dirk
     
    Dirk Kruisheer, Aug 14, 2003
    #6
  7. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Thanks for your suggestions. Printing out now. I MAY look into Fireworks
    eventually, but I want to learn most of this "by hand" first.

    Thanks again and I WILL be back!

    "Dirk Kruisheer" <> wrote in message
    news:3f3bd98d$0$31053$4all.nl...
    >
    > "Brian" <> wrote in message
    > news:bhg7rg$dtsc$-berlin.de...
    > > I am pretty much a neophyte HTML/XHTML person but I am finally away from
    > > using FrontPage.
    > >
    > > I have made several functional but ugly web sites, one of which is
    > > www.cornerstoneassembly.net and our Pastor would it to look like kind of
    > > like www.cag.org (just a coincidence that it has same name.) He would

    like
    > a
    > > "family" motif but we both don't want to "copy or borrow" code. Looking

    at
    > > their start page, how was a lot of this created? Should I get some

    > pictures
    > > and make a collage of them in Photoshop, etc?
    > >
    > > The site as it is now is just so plain...any suggestions (and please be
    > > critical) are appreciated.
    > >

    >
    > Your site isn't really that bad, I think. And the one you are referring at
    > is full of tricks you should not try to emulate, such as slicing graphics.
    >
    > Why not:
    >
    > - Change font-family: times, helvetica, arial; to font-family: arial,
    > helvetica, sans-serif; in your style sheet;
    >
    > - Reedit the graphics in order to make them 1) lighter (in weight) and 2)
    > fit in the area assigned to them;
    >
    > - Cut the XML decaration <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> (some
    > browsers choke in it) and place instead <meta http-equiv="content-type"
    > content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> in the <head> element;
    >
    > - Validate your site at http://www.htmlhelp.com/ and/or at
    > http://www.w3.org/;
    >
    > - Buy an inspiring book such as _Eric Meyer on CSS_
    > (http://www.ericmeyeroncss.com/);
    >
    > - Use your own site as a starting point;
    >
    > - And keep coming back!
    >
    > Dirk
    >
    >
     
    Brian, Aug 14, 2003
    #7
  8. > >
    > > - Cut the XML decaration <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> (some
    > > browsers choke in it) and place instead <meta http-equiv="content-type"
    > > content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> in the <head> element;
    > >



    Sorry,

    The meta-tag should be closed in an orderly XHTML fashion of course:

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />,

    i.e. with space-backslash.

    See you around,

    Dirk
     
    Dirk Kruisheer, Aug 14, 2003
    #8
  9. Dirk Kruisheer wrote:

    > - Cut the XML decaration <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> (some
    > browsers choke in it) and place instead <meta http-equiv="content-type"
    > content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> in the <head> element;


    No, don't.

    If you are going to use a meta tag to make statements about the content
    type, then use HTML. If you want to use XHTML then put the content type
    directives where they belong (in the http headers) where you can more
    easily have them correct (appliction/xhtml+xml) for supporting browsers and
    in HTML compatability mode for older ones.

    --
    David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/
     
    David Dorward, Aug 15, 2003
    #9
  10. "Toby A Inkster" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > Dirk Kruisheer wrote:
    >
    > > <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />,

    >
    > Surely:
    >
    > <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/xml; charset=utf-8" />
    >


    You're right,

    Dirk
     
    Dirk Kruisheer, Aug 15, 2003
    #10
  11. Toby A Inkster wrote:
    > Surely:
    > <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/xml; charset=utf-8" />


    No, well, probably not. Its certainly sub-optimal.

    For XHTML, application/xhtml+xml is correct.

    .... but MSIE doesn't support XHTML ...

    See my previous post: <bhhstv$9cf$1$>

    --
    David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/
     
    David Dorward, Aug 15, 2003
    #11
  12. "David Dorward" <> wrote in message
    news:bhhstv$9cf$1$...
    > Dirk Kruisheer wrote:
    >
    > > - Cut the XML decaration <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> (some
    > > browsers choke in it) and place instead <meta http-equiv="content-type"
    > > content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> in the <head> element;

    >
    > No, don't.
    >
    > If you are going to use a meta tag to make statements about the content
    > type, then use HTML. If you want to use XHTML then put the content type
    > directives where they belong (in the http headers) where you can more
    > easily have them correct (appliction/xhtml+xml) for supporting browsers

    and
    > in HTML compatability mode for older ones.
    >
    > --
    > David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/


    This is where I got my wisdom (especially "1. Open with the proper DOCTYPE &
    Namespace"):

    http://www.nypl.org/styleguide/xhtml/guidelines.html

    Dirk Kruisheer
     
    Dirk Kruisheer, Aug 15, 2003
    #12
  13. Brian

    Talc Ta Matt Guest

    >And the one you are referring at
    >is full of tricks you should not try to emulate, such as slicing graphics.


    Slicing graphics is not a trick. It's a very basic part of web design. Due to
    how that cag.org page is laid out they had to be sliced. I'm not quite for sure
    why someone would say not to do this, as there are no valid reasons not to.
     
    Talc Ta Matt, Aug 16, 2003
    #13
  14. Brian

    Talc Ta Matt Guest

    >Looking at
    >their start page, how was a lot of this created?


    You are (in part) asking this in the wrong group. Alt.HTML is somewhat
    anti-graphics. The regulars to this group like to concentrate on text and
    general page content. Very simple looking stuff. Not heavy graphics. Do not let
    this lead you to believe this is how all web designers feel. There are many
    different design styles from all text to mostly graphics to mostly video.

    Head over to a computer graphics group for actual graphics help.

    How did they do that page?

    It was most likely designed in Photoshop first, and then measurements were
    taken from that for the page layout. Then you cut out the graphics and just
    stick them within your layout.

    That takes care of the graphics end. Now you've got the designated text areas
    to work with as you normally would.

    As for cag.org.... They seem to be using mostly this layout...

    http://www.cag.org/evangelism/knowjesus/

    But they've also got this layout on some pages, which is better in terms of it
    having more potential...

    http://www.cag.org/evangelism/knowjesus/t3/index.shtml
     
    Talc Ta Matt, Aug 16, 2003
    #14
  15. David Dorward wrote:

    > Toby A Inkster wrote:
    >> Surely:
    >> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/xml; charset=utf-8" />

    >
    > No, well, probably not. Its certainly sub-optimal.


    http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-media-types/#summary

    Not that any browsers respect the MIME type in he meta tag anyway.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS | mailto: | pgp:0x6A2A7D39
    aim:inka80 | icq:6622880 | yahoo:tobyink | jabber:
    http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/ | "You've got spam!"
    playing://(nothing)
     
    Toby A Inkster, Aug 16, 2003
    #15
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