Here, let's see what you JavaScript programmers have got

[John Holmes]

And here I thought you were going to post this:

Sshhh. Don't let Dan see that one.

 

[Dan McGrath]

I've run into the James Russell Lowell quote numerous times before.
It seems he is saying that the days in June are of an exceptionally
pleasant quality. The meaning of "unusual" is still there. I can
sort of understand it; I suppose it could be similar to the way I've
felt about December in the past, with Christmas coming up and all.

I guess the question is, if "rare" can sometimes mean "exceptionally
pleasant", why can't it also mean "exceptionally UNpleasant"? After
all, I'm used to thinking of "rare" as a term with a negative
connotation. Also, I'm wondering if the Lowell quote would have been
considerably less intelligible if it hadn't been written so long as
160 years ago. (Cf. "There is a green hill far away / Without a city
wall", which I discovered while researching "sans". Many people
today, it seems, are thrown off by those lines.)

"Rare", there, means "valued", I'd say. Rare is certainly not limited
to meaning unusual or infrequent.
Dan doesn't appear to see this, IINM.

No. I see "rare" as relating to *supply* only. It doesn't have one
bit to do with *demand*. I gave up some time ago on trying to figure
out exactly what the difference in meaning between "rare" and "scarce"
was. It appears that those who insist that there's a difference must
simply have a different definition of "rare" than I do.

- Dan

 

[tony cooper]

Your observation skills, your rationalizing skills, your
acceptable ability to produce counterpoint, other displayed
skills, are inconsistent with autism.

Over the past two years, my observation is you display
no symptoms of autism.

!

 

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Your observation skills, your rationalizing skills, your
acceptable ability to produce counterpoint, other displayed
skills, are inconsistent with autism.

Over the past two years, my observation is you display
no symptoms of autism.

Purl Gurl, thank you for your helpful, tactful and insightful
comments.

Dan, that sentence addressed to Purl Gurl is an example of
irony.

OED:

1. A figure of speech in which the intended meaning is the
opposite of that expressed by the words used; usually taking
the form of sarcasm or ridicule in which laudatory
expressions are used to imply condemnation or contempt.

 

[Dan McGrath]

Purl Gurl, thank you for your helpful, tactful and insightful
comments.

Dan, that sentence addressed to Purl Gurl is an example of
irony.

OED:

1. A figure of speech in which the intended meaning is the
opposite of that expressed by the words used; usually taking
the form of sarcasm or ridicule in which laudatory
expressions are used to imply condemnation or contempt.

I CERTAINLY DO NOT APPRECIATE ANYONE SAYING THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT IS
INTENDED!!! ***NEVER***!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

- Dan

 

[Dan McGrath]

I haven't heard it for a long time, John. I wonder how many people
would understand that usage of rare, today.

I would say it's simply wrong.

"Rare" means "uncommon" or "unusual" or "infrequent". Nothing else.
Unless, of course, it refers to meat as in "a rare steak".

- Dan

 

[Richard Bollard]

I would say it's simply wrong.

"Rare" means "uncommon" or "unusual" or "infrequent". Nothing else.
Unless, of course, it refers to meat as in "a rare steak".

Usage rules, Dan. It is a bit dated, usage-wise, but I have certainly
read someone being referred to as "a rare card". Consider it slang, if
you wish. I think there is certainly a sense of "uncommon" in that
usage but it always means "uncommonly good" rather than "uncommonly
bad". It would be logical for both forms to exist but logic doesn't
apply to usage.

 

[Chuck Riggs]

Dan McGrath wrote:



Your observation skills, your rationalizing skills, your
acceptable ability to produce counterpoint, other displayed
skills, are inconsistent with autism.

Over the past two years, my observation is you display
no symptoms of autism.

Our girl, the doctor.
--

Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

 

[Chuck Riggs]

Always avoid "never"; never use "always".

What, never? Well, hardly ever.
--

Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

 

[Chuck Riggs]

I would say it's simply wrong.

"Rare" means "uncommon" or "unusual" or "infrequent". Nothing else.
Unless, of course, it refers to meat as in "a rare steak".

Unless you are a prescriptionists, you have to accept that rare can
mean what people want it to mean, as in the example I used. My parents
sometimes used it to mean amusing or unexpected, as did some people of
their day, according to AUE members.
Usage determines meaning, not the other way around, in other words.
--

Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

 

[Chuck Riggs]

"She is a rare card to play," said Dillon.
"If she has a learned treatise in her head,
all the Ralphs in the world will not make
her leave off till she has finished it."

- Jean Middlemass, "Wild Georgie", 1873


"The policeman looked at him more respectfully.
'A rare card, Sir, the Vicar.' 'I quite agree.'"

- Scribner's Magazine, 1932


"But more concerning was Alan Smith. He was the
rare card which no-one seemed to have. There
was always one."

- Greg Weston, "The Man Upstairs", 2007

The examples PG found are representative of how my parents sometimes
used the word, rare.
--

Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

 

[Dan McGrath]

Unless you are a prescriptionists, you have to accept that rare can
mean what people want it to mean, as in the example I used. My parents
sometimes used it to mean amusing or unexpected, as did some people of
their day, according to AUE members.
Usage determines meaning, not the other way around, in other words.

I guess I must be a prescriptivist when it comes to the word "rare".
(Is that what you meant? You wrote "prescriptionists".)

"Rare" has only *two* correct uses: "uncommon"/"unusual"/"infrequent",
and "lightly cooked" as in the "rare steak". I had simply *never*
heard of any other meaning for this word until I started getting
fixated on it, and that was during the period when I was growing up.
Actually, before my fixation began I would not have been able to say
that "rare" referred to lightly cooked meat, but only (vaguely) that
it was a cooking term. But anyway, when "rare" means "uncommon" or
"unusual", there's no "pleasant" or "unpleasant" about it. I guess it
could sometimes be used with the connotation of "having an uncommon
quality", which certainly makes sense when applied to that "rare day
in June". But there's no reason to assume that such a usage must
refer to uncommon pleasantness; it could just as well refer to
uncommon *un*pleasantness.

- Dan

 

[Richard Bollard]

"She is a rare card to play," said Dillon.
"If she has a learned treatise in her head,
all the Ralphs in the world will not make
her leave off till she has finished it."

- Jean Middlemass, "Wild Georgie", 1873


"The policeman looked at him more respectfully.
'A rare card, Sir, the Vicar.' 'I quite agree.'"

- Scribner's Magazine, 1932


"But more concerning was Alan Smith. He was the
rare card which no-one seemed to have. There
was always one."

- Greg Weston, "The Man Upstairs", 2007

Thanks. Well found.

 

[Chuck Riggs]

I guess I must be a prescriptivist when it comes to the word "rare".
(Is that what you meant? You wrote "prescriptionists".)

Yes, that is what I meant.

"Rare" has only *two* correct uses: "uncommon"/"unusual"/"infrequent",
and "lightly cooked" as in the "rare steak". I had simply *never*
heard of any other meaning for this word until I started getting
fixated on it, and that was during the period when I was growing up.
Actually, before my fixation began I would not have been able to say
that "rare" referred to lightly cooked meat, but only (vaguely) that
it was a cooking term. But anyway, when "rare" means "uncommon" or
"unusual", there's no "pleasant" or "unpleasant" about it. I guess it
could sometimes be used with the connotation of "having an uncommon
quality", which certainly makes sense when applied to that "rare day
in June". But there's no reason to assume that such a usage must
refer to uncommon pleasantness; it could just as well refer to
uncommon *un*pleasantness.

- Dan

--

Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

 

[CDB]

Oleg Lego wrote:
[...]
And many others... a post in this thread a long time ago was
cross-posted from comp.lang.javascript to alt.usage.english. The
thread has since strayed a long way from the original topic and
should be constrained to the latter group.
Please don't include comp.lang.javascript in the follow-up list
unless you are replying to something relevant to that group.
This is not a response to Oleg in particular, but to all those who
have responded from alt.usage.english without removing
comp.lang.javascript from the list of follow-up groups.

I understand your point, but I think what you propose isn't quite
correct. People should remove the other newsgroup from the
distribution, not follow-up. The follow-up directs where replies to
a message go. You are saying that these messages aren't topical for
CLJ. As such, they shouldn't be sent there at all.

He couldn't hear you, so I've reposted with CLJ in the distribution
list. Followups as requested, though.

And, speaking for myself at least, no more fork.

 

[Dan McGrath]

Since at least 1596, according to the OED.

Well, at least tell me what you meant about "perhaps (the reader must
guess) ...".

- Dan

 

[Dan McGrath]

Usage rules, Dan. It is a bit dated, usage-wise, but I have certainly
read someone being referred to as "a rare card". Consider it slang, if
you wish. I think there is certainly a sense of "uncommon" in that
usage but it always means "uncommonly good" rather than "uncommonly
bad". It would be logical for both forms to exist but logic doesn't
apply to usage.

M-W Collegiate does not seem to list "rare" in the sense of "pleasant"
or "really good", although I believe this meaning appears in some
other dictionaries. Instead, they give "marked by unusual quality,
merit, or appeal; distinctive" and "superlative or extreme of its
kind", definitions which to me do not seem to suggest anything about
something being good rather than bad. I think that all that "rare"
really means is "of an unusual quality", and this can be a bad quality
as well as a good one.

- Dan

 

[Michael Wojcik]

Well, at least tell me what you meant about "perhaps (the reader must
guess) ...".

I am deliberately employing the ambiguity inherent in natural
language, as a rhetorical technique. Uncertainty engages the attention
of many readers; that's why many put considerable resources into
hermeneutic pursuits such as literary criticism, scriptural
interpretation, and fanboy flame wars.

If I made all my intentions explicit[*], I'd be subverting my
rhetorical position.

Clearly this is not to the taste of every reader - I suspect it's not
to yours - but if I restricted myself to utterances that appealed to
every member of my audience, I wouldn't need an NNTP posting agent.


[*] I don't actually believe that's possible anyway, for functional
reasons (ambiguity cannot be removed from human communication) and
epistemological ones (I suspect the unconscious exists).

 

[Richard Bollard]

M-W Collegiate does not seem to list "rare" in the sense of "pleasant"
or "really good", although I believe this meaning appears in some
other dictionaries. Instead, they give "marked by unusual quality,
merit, or appeal; distinctive" and "superlative or extreme of its
kind", definitions which to me do not seem to suggest anything about
something being good rather than bad. I think that all that "rare"
really means is "of an unusual quality", and this can be a bad quality
as well as a good one.

Yes it can but I think most, if not all, actual usage is on the side
of pleasant.

 

[Chuck Riggs]

Yes it can but I think most, if not all, actual usage is on the side
of pleasant.

I agree. "It is a rare day" can mean the weather, for example, is
unusual or that it is pleasant, but it wouldn't mean the weather is
poor.
--

Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland