horizontal scrollbar problem in frame with IE

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Paul J. Le Genial, Mar 9, 2005.

  1. I still have a few problems with my page
    http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :

    I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
    frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is not
    larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?

    TIA
     
    Paul J. Le Genial, Mar 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. Paul J. Le Genial

    Steve Pugh Guest

    "Paul J. Le Genial" <> wrote:

    >I still have a few problems with my page
    >http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :
    >
    >I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
    >frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is not
    >larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?


    The doctype used on your frameset document triggers Standards mode in
    IE. In this mode IE will only display no scrollbars or both
    scrollbars, it will never display just one.

    Solsutions include switching to a different doctype or, better,
    dropping the frames.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
     
    Steve Pugh, Mar 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. Paul J. Le Genial

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. Le Genial"
    <> said:

    > I still have a few problems with my page
    > http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :


    Indeed you do. You're using frames; that's the biggest problem. Most of
    the others stem from that.

    > I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
    > frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is not
    > larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?


    Yes - don't use frames.

    http://www.htmlhelp.com/design/frames/whatswrong.html
    http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
    http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
    http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html (see under "Your page uses
    frames")
    http://www.markparnell.com.au/articles/frames.php

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
     
    Mark Parnell, Mar 9, 2005
    #3
  4. Paul J. Le Genial

    dorayme Guest


    > From: Steve Pugh <>
    > Newsgroups: alt.html
    > Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:54:52 +0000
    > Subject: Re: horizontal scrollbar problem in frame with IE
    >
    > "Paul J. Le Genial" <> wrote:
    >
    >> I still have a few problems with my page
    >> http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :
    >>
    >> I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
    >> frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is not
    >> larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?

    >
    > The doctype used on your frameset document triggers Standards mode in
    > IE. In this mode IE will only display no scrollbars or both
    > scrollbars, it will never display just one.
    >
    > Solsutions include switching to a different doctype or, better,
    > dropping the frames.
    >
    > Steve



    On both Mozilla 1.3 and IE 5.1 on a Mac, behaviour is similar in respect to
    scrollbars. When window is made large enough to clear right black borders
    (not really using more than 80% of a 20" monitor set at 1024*870), horiz
    scroll disappears. So this is a case of IE displaying just one bar. I don't
    know if this is quite an exception to what you are intending and true, IE
    5.1.6 on a Mac running OS 9.1 might not count for much...

    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Paul J. Le Genial

    Steve Pugh Guest

    dorayme <> wrote:
    >> From: Steve Pugh <>
    >> "Paul J. Le Genial" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I still have a few problems with my page
    >>> http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :
    >>>
    >>> I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
    >>> frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is not
    >>> larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?

    >>
    >> The doctype used on your frameset document triggers Standards mode in
    >> IE. In this mode IE will only display no scrollbars or both
    >> scrollbars, it will never display just one.
    >>
    >> Solsutions include switching to a different doctype or, better,
    >> dropping the frames.

    >
    >On both Mozilla 1.3 and IE 5.1 on a Mac, behaviour is similar in respect to
    >scrollbars. When window is made large enough to clear right black borders
    >(not really using more than 80% of a 20" monitor set at 1024*870), horiz
    >scroll disappears. So this is a case of IE displaying just one bar. I don't
    >know if this is quite an exception to what you are intending and true, IE
    >5.1.6 on a Mac running OS 9.1 might not count for much...


    Sorry, I was only talking about Win IE6. Other versions are not
    affected, either because they have no Standards mode (Win IE5) or
    because they were created by developers with half a clue (Mac IE5).

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
     
    Steve Pugh, Mar 9, 2005
    #5
  6. Paul J. Le Genial

    Richard Guest

    On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 22:37:03 +0100 Paul J. Le Genial wrote:

    > I still have a few problems with my page
    > http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :
    >
    > I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
    > frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is
    > not larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?
    >
    > TIA
    >


    <frameset framespacing="0" frameborder="0" border="0" rows="65,*,48,0">
    <frame name="frame_thema" src="f_list.html" scrolling="no" frameborder="0"
    border="0" noresize />
    <frame name="frame_texte" src="f_test.html" scrolling="auto"
    frameborder="0" border="0" />
    <frame name="frame_navig" src="f_list.html" scrolling="no" frameborder="0"
    border="0" noresize />
    <frame name="frame_work" src="f_list.html" scrolling="no" frameborder="0"
    border="0" noresize />

    You have set the second frame to be any width and set scrolling to auto
    which triggers both scroll bars.
    IE will only show one scrollbar as desired if the values are used correctly.

    I also noticed in IE that the alignment of the outer block was off compared
    to the top frame.
    For something like you want to try doing, I would use IFRAME instead.
     
    Richard, Mar 10, 2005
    #6
  7. Paul J. Le Genial

    jake Guest

    In message <4zrdmnit51d1.l58k57p1a7or$>, Mark
    Parnell <> writes
    >Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. Le Genial"
    ><> said:
    >
    >> I still have a few problems with my page
    >> http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :

    >
    >Indeed you do. You're using frames; that's the biggest problem. Most of
    >the others stem from that.
    >
    >> I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
    >> frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is not
    >> larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?

    >
    >Yes - don't use frames.
    >
    >http://www.htmlhelp.com/design/frames/whatswrong.html
    >http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
    >http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
    >http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html (see under "Your page uses
    >frames")
    >http://www.markparnell.com.au/articles/frames.php
    >


    ..... but take the batteries out of your bogosity meter first, to avoid
    being distracted .....

    regards
    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Mar 10, 2005
    #7
  8. I do not know how works iframes but I think they are included inside one
    page.
    For what I need, the top frame is hiding the addresses of the inside
    documents so I can pass information from one page to another or from one
    frame to another using the search attribute of the address.

    I suppose the only way to do it is using frames. The middle frame is used to
    display the information in a div 736px width. I would then be pleased to get
    rid of the annoying horizontal scrollbar when displayed on a screen of
    minimum 800x600.

    Note : the black borders were added only for debug mode...

    "Richard" <Anonymous@127.001> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 22:37:03 +0100 Paul J. Le Genial wrote:
    >
    > > I still have a few problems with my page
    > > http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :
    > >
    > > I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
    > > frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is
    > > not larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?
    > >
    > > TIA
    > >

    >
    > <frameset framespacing="0" frameborder="0" border="0" rows="65,*,48,0">
    > <frame name="frame_thema" src="f_list.html" scrolling="no"

    frameborder="0"
    > border="0" noresize />
    > <frame name="frame_texte" src="f_test.html" scrolling="auto"
    > frameborder="0" border="0" />
    > <frame name="frame_navig" src="f_list.html" scrolling="no"

    frameborder="0"
    > border="0" noresize />
    > <frame name="frame_work" src="f_list.html" scrolling="no"

    frameborder="0"
    > border="0" noresize />
    >
    > You have set the second frame to be any width and set scrolling to auto
    > which triggers both scroll bars.
    > IE will only show one scrollbar as desired if the values are used

    correctly.
    >
    > I also noticed in IE that the alignment of the outer block was off

    compared
    > to the top frame.
    > For something like you want to try doing, I would use IFRAME instead.
    >
    >
     
    Paul J. Le Genial, Mar 10, 2005
    #8
  9. Paul J. Le Genial

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. Le Genial"
    <> said:

    > "Richard" <Anonymous@127.001> wrote

    <snip>

    Paul, just ignore Richard. He's our resident troll, and he's not very
    good at that, let alone HTML.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
     
    Mark Parnell, Mar 10, 2005
    #9
  10. "Mark Parnell" <> a écrit dans le message de
    news: 1xoe248ktiyw3$...
    > Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. Le Genial"
    > <> said:
    >
    > > "Richard" <Anonymous@127.001> wrote

    > <snip>
    >
    > Paul, just ignore Richard. He's our resident troll, and he's not very
    > good at that, let alone HTML.
    >
    > --

    As explained, I need to use frames and I use them with a lot of javascript
    (frameset will be created by javascript). So do you have a solution to
    remove this annoying horizontal scrollbar ?
     
    Paul J. le Génial, Mar 11, 2005
    #10
  11. Paul J. Le Genial

    Oli Filth Guest

    Paul J. le Génial wrote:
    > "Mark Parnell" <> a écrit dans le message de
    > news: 1xoe248ktiyw3$...
    >
    >>Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. Le Genial"
    >><> said:
    >>
    >>
    >>>"Richard" <Anonymous@127.001> wrote

    >>
    >><snip>
    >>
    >>Paul, just ignore Richard. He's our resident troll, and he's not very
    >>good at that, let alone HTML.
    >>
    >>--

    >
    > As explained, I need to use frames and I use them with a lot of javascript
    > (frameset will be created by javascript). So do you have a solution to
    > remove this annoying horizontal scrollbar ?
    >


    Yes: don't use frames.

    A site using frames where the frameset is generated by "a lot of
    javascript" is almost certainly heading for disaster.

    Someone already posted a comprehensive list of why frames are almost
    always a bad idea. However, on top of that, your page looks really bad
    in Firefox. Invest some time in researching how to make a site that
    doesn't use frames.

    --
    Oli
     
    Oli Filth, Mar 11, 2005
    #11
  12. Paul J. Le Genial

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. le Génial"
    <> said:

    > As explained, I need to use frames


    And as I explained, no you don't.

    > and I use them with a lot of javascript


    For non-essential "bells and whistles" only, of course.

    > (frameset will be created by javascript)


    I guess not. So what will your visitors with Javascript
    disabled/unavailable get?

    > So do you have a solution to
    > remove this annoying horizontal scrollbar ?


    As I said in my other post, don't use frames. Read through the links I
    provided for why. If they don't convince you, the last link explains how
    to do frames properly - but it is so much more work than a non-frames
    solution that I don't know why you would bother.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
     
    Mark Parnell, Mar 13, 2005
    #12

  13. > > So do you have a solution to
    > > remove this annoying horizontal scrollbar ?

    >
    > As I said in my other post, don't use frames. Read through the links I
    > provided for why. If they don't convince you, the last link explains how
    > to do frames properly - but it is so much more work than a non-frames
    > solution that I don't know why you would bother.
    >

    If it was only to display, yes, I could use <div> in replacement. But, my
    site should work both on a local computer (CD distribution, no access to
    php, asp or else) and online (internet, where I could find an ISP with
    server scripting available). So I do not have solutions to :
    1) display only the root of the site in the address bar
    2) use the hidden <frame_work> to pass navigation information and global
    variables from one page to another (using search part of the href)
    3) load only once the top and bottom navigation files as well as the
    javascript files

    * For online people without Javascript or without Frame display, they will
    use a reduced version of the site (i.e without navigation bars) available
    from the <noframe> tag (site map links).
    * This <noframe> is also available to robots for indexing.
    * A link is available on each page to bookmark outside the frame with a
    script to reload the page inside the frameset on each load.

    So, I think there is much advantages for me to use frames than using <div>
    (or may be you have a solution for which I did not think ?) and I have
    provided solutions for most of the disadvantages of frames.

    Still, I am open to all your suggestions
     
    Paul J. Le Genial, Mar 14, 2005
    #13
  14. "Oli Filth" <> wrote in message
    news:8NlYd.3670$...
    > Paul J. le Génial wrote:
    >
    > Yes: don't use frames.
    >
    > A site using frames where the frameset is generated by "a lot of
    > javascript" is almost certainly heading for disaster.
    >
    > Someone already posted a comprehensive list of why frames are almost
    > always a bad idea. However, on top of that, your page looks really bad
    > in Firefox. Invest some time in researching how to make a site that
    > doesn't use frames.
    >

    The version that you looked is only a development one and not yet fully
    tested with Firefox (though the version on my PC display correctly with
    win2k and firefox).
    Have a look on my answer to Mark P. to see why I want to use frames.
     
    Paul J. Le Genial, Mar 14, 2005
    #14
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