horizontal scrollbar problem in frame with IE

Paul J. Le Genial · Mar 9, 2005

I still have a few problems with my page
http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :

I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is not
larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?

TIA

Steve Pugh · Mar 9, 2005

Paul J. Le Genial said:
I still have a few problems with my page
http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :

I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is not
larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?

The doctype used on your frameset document triggers Standards mode in
IE. In this mode IE will only display no scrollbars or both
scrollbars, it will never display just one.

Solsutions include switching to a different doctype or, better,
dropping the frames.

Steve

Mark Parnell · Mar 9, 2005

Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. Le Genial"

I still have a few problems with my page
http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :

Indeed you do. You're using frames; that's the biggest problem. Most of
the others stem from that.

I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is not
larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?

Yes - don't use frames.

http://www.htmlhelp.com/design/frames/whatswrong.html
http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html (see under "Your page uses
frames")
http://www.markparnell.com.au/articles/frames.php

dorayme · Mar 9, 2005

From: Steve Pugh <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.html
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:54:52 +0000
Subject: Re: horizontal scrollbar problem in frame with IE

The doctype used on your frameset document triggers Standards mode in
IE. In this mode IE will only display no scrollbars or both
scrollbars, it will never display just one.

Solsutions include switching to a different doctype or, better,
dropping the frames.

Steve

On both Mozilla 1.3 and IE 5.1 on a Mac, behaviour is similar in respect to
scrollbars. When window is made large enough to clear right black borders
(not really using more than 80% of a 20" monitor set at 1024*870), horiz
scroll disappears. So this is a case of IE displaying just one bar. I don't
know if this is quite an exception to what you are intending and true, IE
5.1.6 on a Mac running OS 9.1 might not count for much...

dorayme

Steve Pugh · Mar 9, 2005

dorayme said:
On both Mozilla 1.3 and IE 5.1 on a Mac, behaviour is similar in respect to
scrollbars. When window is made large enough to clear right black borders
(not really using more than 80% of a 20" monitor set at 1024*870), horiz
scroll disappears. So this is a case of IE displaying just one bar. I don't
know if this is quite an exception to what you are intending and true, IE
5.1.6 on a Mac running OS 9.1 might not count for much...

Sorry, I was only talking about Win IE6. Other versions are not
affected, either because they have no Standards mode (Win IE5) or
because they were created by developers with half a clue (Mac IE5).

Steve

Richard · Mar 10, 2005

I still have a few problems with my page
http://hortus.free.frandt.net/ :

I do not understand why IE put that horizontal scrollbar in the middle
frame. Should only have a vertical one. Everything in the <body> part is
not larger than the black border. Is there a way to take it out ?

TIA

<frameset framespacing="0" frameborder="0" border="0" rows="65,*,48,0">
<frame name="frame_thema" src="f_list.html" scrolling="no" frameborder="0"
border="0" noresize />
<frame name="frame_texte" src="f_test.html" scrolling="auto"
frameborder="0" border="0" />
<frame name="frame_navig" src="f_list.html" scrolling="no" frameborder="0"
border="0" noresize />
<frame name="frame_work" src="f_list.html" scrolling="no" frameborder="0"
border="0" noresize />

You have set the second frame to be any width and set scrolling to auto
which triggers both scroll bars.
IE will only show one scrollbar as desired if the values are used correctly.

I also noticed in IE that the alignment of the outer block was off compared
to the top frame.
For something like you want to try doing, I would use IFRAME instead.

jake · Mar 10, 2005

Mark said:
Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. Le Genial"

Indeed you do. You're using frames; that's the biggest problem. Most of
the others stem from that.

Yes - don't use frames.

http://www.htmlhelp.com/design/frames/whatswrong.html
http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/
http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html (see under "Your page uses
frames")
http://www.markparnell.com.au/articles/frames.php

..... but take the batteries out of your bogosity meter first, to avoid
being distracted .....

regards

Paul J. Le Genial · Mar 10, 2005

I do not know how works iframes but I think they are included inside one
page.
For what I need, the top frame is hiding the addresses of the inside
documents so I can pass information from one page to another or from one
frame to another using the search attribute of the address.

I suppose the only way to do it is using frames. The middle frame is used to
display the information in a div 736px width. I would then be pleased to get
rid of the annoying horizontal scrollbar when displayed on a screen of
minimum 800x600.

Note : the black borders were added only for debug mode...

Mark Parnell · Mar 10, 2005

Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. Le Genial"

"Richard" <[email protected]> wrote

<snip>

Paul, just ignore Richard. He's our resident troll, and he's not very
good at that, let alone HTML.

Paul J. le Génial · Mar 11, 2005

Mark Parnell said:
Previously in alt.html, "Paul J. Le Genial"

<snip>

Paul, just ignore Richard. He's our resident troll, and he's not very
good at that, let alone HTML.

--

As explained, I need to use frames and I use them with a lot of javascript
(frameset will be created by javascript). So do you have a solution to
remove this annoying horizontal scrollbar ?

Oli Filth · Mar 11, 2005

Paul said:
As explained, I need to use frames and I use them with a lot of javascript
(frameset will be created by javascript). So do you have a solution to
remove this annoying horizontal scrollbar ?

Yes: don't use frames.

A site using frames where the frameset is generated by "a lot of
javascript" is almost certainly heading for disaster.

Someone already posted a comprehensive list of why frames are almost
always a bad idea. However, on top of that, your page looks really bad
in Firefox. Invest some time in researching how to make a site that
doesn't use frames.

Mark Parnell · Mar 13, 2005

As explained, I need to use frames

And as I explained, no you don't.

and I use them with a lot of javascript

For non-essential "bells and whistles" only, of course.

(frameset will be created by javascript)

I guess not. So what will your visitors with Javascript
disabled/unavailable get?

So do you have a solution to
remove this annoying horizontal scrollbar ?

As I said in my other post, don't use frames. Read through the links I
provided for why. If they don't convince you, the last link explains how
to do frames properly - but it is so much more work than a non-frames
solution that I don't know why you would bother.

Paul J. Le Genial · Mar 14, 2005

As I said in my other post, don't use frames. Read through the links I
provided for why. If they don't convince you, the last link explains how
to do frames properly - but it is so much more work than a non-frames
solution that I don't know why you would bother.

If it was only to display, yes, I could use <div> in replacement. But, my
site should work both on a local computer (CD distribution, no access to
php, asp or else) and online (internet, where I could find an ISP with
server scripting available). So I do not have solutions to :
1) display only the root of the site in the address bar
2) use the hidden <frame_work> to pass navigation information and global
variables from one page to another (using search part of the href)
3) load only once the top and bottom navigation files as well as the
javascript files

* For online people without Javascript or without Frame display, they will
use a reduced version of the site (i.e without navigation bars) available
from the <noframe> tag (site map links).
* This <noframe> is also available to robots for indexing.
* A link is available on each page to bookmark outside the frame with a
script to reload the page inside the frameset on each load.

So, I think there is much advantages for me to use frames than using <div>
(or may be you have a solution for which I did not think ?) and I have
provided solutions for most of the disadvantages of frames.

Still, I am open to all your suggestions

Paul J. Le Genial · Mar 14, 2005

Oli Filth said:
Paul J. le Génial wrote:

Yes: don't use frames.

A site using frames where the frameset is generated by "a lot of
javascript" is almost certainly heading for disaster.

Someone already posted a comprehensive list of why frames are almost
always a bad idea. However, on top of that, your page looks really bad
in Firefox. Invest some time in researching how to make a site that
doesn't use frames.

The version that you looked is only a development one and not yet fully
tested with Firefox (though the version on my PC display correctly with
win2k and firefox).
Have a look on my answer to Mark P. to see why I want to use frames.

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horizontal scrollbar problem in frame with IE

Paul J. Le Genial

Steve Pugh

Mark Parnell

dorayme

Steve Pugh

Richard

jake

Paul J. Le Genial

Mark Parnell

Paul J. le Génial

Oli Filth

Mark Parnell

Paul J. Le Genial

Paul J. Le Genial

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