How do I get MS Sans Serif on my whole webpage?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by johnsonholding@yahoo.com, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I am finding that Arial and MS Sans Serif looks exactly the same...Is
    this true or am I seeing things? I am trying to get on every computer
    with MS Sans Serif because it is slightly
    different from Arial - is there a way of doing this? Do I need to use
    CSS? Thanks!
     
    , Jan 19, 2006
    #1
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  2. In article <>,
    "" <> wrote:

    > I am finding that Arial and MS Sans Serif looks exactly the same...Is
    > this true or am I seeing things? I am trying to get on every computer
    > with MS Sans Serif because it is slightly
    > different from Arial - is there a way of doing this? Do I need to use
    > CSS? Thanks!


    Change the default sans-serif font in your browser to something else.
    I'm really not sure I understand your question.

    leo

    --
    <http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
     
    Leonard Blaisdell, Jan 19, 2006
    #2
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  3. Jose Guest

    > I am trying to get on every computer
    > with MS Sans Serif because it is slightly
    > different from Arial


    What does "get on every computer with" mean? If you mean you want to
    have your web site be displayed in the font called "MS Sans Serif", you
    mostly can't, even though you mostly can. First, I don't think MS Sans
    Serif is a font, but a request to use one of many sans serif fonts (the
    browser will use its default sans serif font, which is probably arial,
    but could be anything). I don't have a font called "MS Sans Serif" on
    my (windows 98) computer.

    In the case where it =is= a specific font, you can request that the
    browser use it, but the font must be available on the computer for that
    to work, otherwise the browser will use the "next best thing".
    Remember, users may not want =your= font, they may well want =their=
    font (and size). That should be honored.

    That said - Arial is a dumass font for the net since it confuses several
    letters and numbers, leading to easy impersonation.

    Jose
    --
    Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
    for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
     
    Jose, Jan 19, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    My designer loves the font and wants to use it, so I am stuck with
    Microsoft San Serif font that seems to work in MS word and wordpad. I
    looked at both in MS word and there are differences. In Dreamweaver,
    it seems to revert to Arial, but my designer would have none of it. I
    am guessing since Microsoft puts out MS Sans Serif, that is should be
    on every single font list on the computer...but maybe I am wrong.
    Should CSS be able to do this? Or even plain HTML?
     
    , Jan 19, 2006
    #4
  5. richardv2 Guest

    CSS absolutely can make all of your page the same font. Read up on CSS
    font-family.
    1. In the <head> of your page, link to the CSS file like...
    <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="style.css">

    2. In style.css set up whatever you want...

    body {
    font-family: "MS Sans-serif", sans-serif, Georgia, Whatever
    }

    3. Because not ALL machines have any of the fonts the font-family
    selector says "USE THIS LIST IN PRIORITY ORDER! Use the first font you
    find on this machine, starting from the left."
    Any font that has a space in it MUST be in quotes, otherwise, just make
    a comma separated list.
    Google "fonts CSS font-family" to find out the CLOSEST to the font you
    want on different operating systems. (I found that list, but it is not
    with me now.)
     
    richardv2, Jan 19, 2006
    #5
  6. Mark Parnell Guest

    Deciding to do something for the good of humanity,
    "" <> spouted in
    alt.html:

    > I am trying to get on every computer
    > with MS Sans Serif


    You can *suggest* through CSS that the browser use MS Sans Serif[1], but
    it is subject to several caveats:

    1) The visitor has to actually *have* a font called MS Sans Serif on
    their computer
    2) The visitor has the ability to override any font selection you make

    By all means use MS Sans Serif - that's what your designer will see,
    which is the main thing. :) Just don't expect it to be the same on
    everyone else's computer. There is no possible way to make that happen.

    [1] E.g. body {font-family: "MS Sans Serif", Arial, sans-serif}

    --
    Mark Parnell
    =====================================================
    Att. Google Groups users - this is your last warning:
    http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
     
    Mark Parnell, Jan 19, 2006
    #6
  7. Mark Parnell Guest

    Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, richardv2
    <> spouted in alt.html:

    > font-family: "MS Sans-serif", sans-serif, Georgia, Whatever


    The last 2 font names there (Georgia and Whatever) are pointless -
    sans-serif is the generic font family, so if the browser gets to that
    point in the list, it will use its default sans-serif font. It will
    never get to the rest of the list. If you want to specify multiple
    fonts, they need to be before the generic option.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    =====================================================
    Att. Google Groups users - this is your last warning:
    http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
     
    Mark Parnell, Jan 19, 2006
    #7
  8. Toby Inkster Guest

    Jose wrote:

    > I don't have a font called "MS Sans Serif" on my (windows 98) computer.


    I bet you do. It just won't show up in most font listings because it's
    not a TrueType font. Go to "Fonts" in "Control Panel" and I'm sure you'll
    see it listed.

    By default, it's what Windows 95/98/NT (and perhaps other versions) use
    for their UI.

    To the OP: as it's not a TrueType font, it's likely that many browsers
    won't let you use it on a web page.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Jan 19, 2006
    #8
  9. Jose Guest

    > I bet you do. It just won't show up in most font listings because it's
    > not a TrueType font. Go to "Fonts" in "Control Panel" and I'm sure you'll
    > see it listed.


    Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle! I could swear there is a setting in
    Word that says to use all fonts, and so I'd expect to have it available
    in that list, but it isn't, even though I have the font.

    Jose
    --
    Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
    for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
     
    Jose, Jan 19, 2006
    #9
  10. Jose wrote:
    >> I am trying to get on every computer
    >> with MS Sans Serif because it is slightly
    >> different from Arial

    >
    > What does "get on every computer with" mean? If you mean you want to
    > have your web site be displayed in the font called "MS Sans Serif", you
    > mostly can't, even though you mostly can. First, I don't think MS Sans
    > Serif is a font, but a request to use one of many sans serif fonts (the
    > browser will use its default sans serif font, which is probably arial,


    Nonsense.

    MS stands for Microsoft.

    MS Sans Serif is a bitmap font that came with Windows 3.1 and some
    subsequent Windows versions. It replaced Helv, which was in previous
    versions of Windows. There was also MS Serif, which replaced Tms Rmn.

    The CSS declaration

    font-family: sans-serif;

    persuades the browser to use a sans-serif font without specifying which
    one. The HTML 'equivalent'

    <font face="sans-serif">

    also seems to work in SeaMonkey, though it doesn't appear to be part of
    the standard.

    > but could be anything). I don't have a font called "MS Sans Serif" on
    > my (windows 98) computer.


    I hadn't realised they'd stopped providing it by that time. I'll have
    to check when I get home.

    > In the case where it =is= a specific font, you can request that the
    > browser use it, but the font must be available on the computer for that
    > to work, otherwise the browser will use the "next best thing". Remember,
    > users may not want =your= font, they may well want =their= font (and
    > size). That should be honored.
    >
    > That said - Arial is a dumass font for the net since it confuses several
    > letters and numbers, leading to easy impersonation.


    If you mean that the difference between I and l isn't obvious, then yes.
    But that's true of many sans-serif fonts. And even some serif fonts
    make l and 1 look almost identica1.

    OTOH, there's a school of thought that thinks that sans-serif fonts are
    actually best for online documents. Allegedly easier on the eyes, or
    something like that.

    Stewart.

    --
    -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
    Version: 3.1
    GCS/M d- s:- C++@ a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K-@ w++@ O? M V? PS-
    PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y
    ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

    My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on
    the 'group where everyone may benefit.
     
    Stewart Gordon, Jan 19, 2006
    #10
  11. wrote:
    > I am finding that Arial and MS Sans Serif looks exactly the same...Is
    > this true or am I seeing things? I am trying to get on every computer
    > with MS Sans Serif because it is slightly
    > different from Arial - is there a way of doing this? Do I need to use
    > CSS? Thanks!


    You didn't even give yourself a breath before you contradicted
    yourself...

    "I am finding Arial and MS Sans Serif looks exactly the same..."

    "I am trying to get on ever computer with MS Sans Serif because it is
    slightly different from Arial."
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 19, 2006
    #11
  12. Toby Inkster Guest

    Jose wrote:
    > Toby Inkster:
    >
    >> I bet you do. It just won't show up in most font listings because it's
    >> not a TrueType font. Go to "Fonts" in "Control Panel" and I'm sure you'll
    >> see it listed.

    >
    > Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle! I could swear there is a setting in
    > Word that says to use all fonts, and so I'd expect to have it available
    > in that list, but it isn't, even though I have the font.


    Well, as it's a bitmapped font, it's only available at particular sizes.
    Off the top of my head, 8.5pt and 10pt are a couple of them. Perhaps Word
    hides it from the font menu unless you're in one of those sizes? Just an
    idea.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Jan 19, 2006
    #12
  13. Toby Inkster wrote:
    <snip>
    > Well, as it's a bitmapped font, it's only available at particular sizes.
    > Off the top of my head, 8.5pt and 10pt are a couple of them. Perhaps Word
    > hides it from the font menu unless you're in one of those sizes? Just an
    > idea.


    Not all printers support Windows bitmap fonts. If you have such a
    printer set up as the default, many applications will not list them.

    I haven't come across any program that adjusts its font list to the size
    that the user is in. Rather, if you use a bitmap font at what isn't one
    of its sizes, then it will tend to use the closest size it can,
    sometimes using a pixel resize to achieve a multiple of one of the
    font's sizes.

    Of course, when you have a bitmap font selected, some programs will
    adjust the list of sizes to the font.

    Stewart.

    --
    -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
    Version: 3.1
    GCS/M d- s:- C++@ a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K-@ w++@ O? M V? PS-
    PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y
    ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

    My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on
    the 'group where everyone may benefit.
     
    Stewart Gordon, Jan 20, 2006
    #13
  14. Stewart Gordon wrote:
    > Jose wrote:
    >
    >>> I am trying to get on every computer
    >>> with MS Sans Serif because it is slightly
    >>> different from Arial


    <snip>

    >> but could be anything). I don't have a font called "MS Sans Serif" on
    >> my (windows 98) computer.

    >
    >
    > I hadn't realised they'd stopped providing it by that time. I'll have
    > to check when I get home.
    >
    >> In the case where it =is= a specific font, you can request that the
    >> browser use it, but the font must be available on the computer for
    >> that to work, otherwise the browser will use the "next best thing".
    >> Remember, users may not want =your= font, they may well want =their=


    It's there, just that WinApps are 'TrueType' biased and many times don't
    show the screen (bitmap) fonts. On any Windows machine click
    'Start|Run..." enter 'charmap' and view all your installed fonts
    including screen fonts like 'terminal' and 'fixsys'

    <snip>

    >> That said - Arial is a dumass font for the net since it confuses
    >> several letters and numbers, leading to easy impersonation.

    >
    >
    > If you mean that the difference between I and l isn't obvious, then yes.
    > But that's true of many sans-serif fonts. And even some serif fonts
    > make l and 1 look almost identica1.


    No that is not true. The confusion is between the uppercase 'i' and
    lowercase 'l' with Arial (common to many sans-serif fonts). The number
    '1' is distinguishable for the letter characters by a upper simplified
    serif, (little tang going off the left) where the letter characters have
    no such serif. Actually the legibility problem is with serif fonts like
    Times and Times New Roman that have a problem between lowercase 'l' and
    the numeral '1'!

    >
    > OTOH, there's a school of thought that thinks that sans-serif fonts are
    > actually best for online documents. Allegedly easier on the eyes, or
    > something like that.


    They are easier to read because they are 'blacker' (heavier weight) in
    general and the simplified lines are easier to read when smaller or in
    lower contrast situations. Script and decorative fonts are probably the
    least legible and should only be used sparingly


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jan 20, 2006
    #14
  15. JDS Guest

    JDS, Jan 21, 2006
    #15
  16. Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    > Stewart Gordon wrote:
    >> Jose wrote:

    <snip>
    >>> That said - Arial is a dumass font for the net since it confuses
    >>> several letters and numbers, leading to easy impersonation.

    >>
    >> If you mean that the difference between I and l isn't obvious, then
    >> yes. But that's true of many sans-serif fonts. And even some serif
    >> fonts make l and 1 look almost identica1.

    >
    > No that is not true.


    What is not true?

    > The confusion is between the uppercase 'i' and
    > lowercase 'l' with Arial (common to many sans-serif fonts). The number
    > '1' is distinguishable for the letter characters by a upper simplified
    > serif, (little tang going off the left) where the letter characters have
    > no such serif. Actually the legibility problem is with serif fonts like
    > Times and Times New Roman that have a problem between lowercase 'l' and
    > the numeral '1'!


    You seem to be saying exactly what I just said, only in different words.

    >> OTOH, there's a school of thought that thinks that sans-serif fonts
    >> are actually best for online documents. Allegedly easier on the eyes,
    >> or something like that.

    >
    > They are easier to read because they are 'blacker' (heavier weight) in
    > general and the simplified lines are easier to read when smaller or in
    > lower contrast situations. Script and decorative fonts are probably the
    > least legible and should only be used sparingly


    Does this mean that if you took a sans-serif font and added serifs to
    it, then it would be as easy to read as the original sans-serif font?

    Stewart.

    --
    -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
    Version: 3.1
    GCS/M d- s:- C++@ a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K-@ w++@ O? M V? PS-
    PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y
    ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

    My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on
    the 'group where everyone may benefit.
     
    Stewart Gordon, Jan 24, 2006
    #16
  17. Stewart Gordon wrote:

    > Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    >
    >> Stewart Gordon wrote:
    >>
    >>> Jose wrote:

    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >>>> That said - Arial is a dumass font for the net since it confuses
    >>>> several letters and numbers, leading to easy impersonation.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> If you mean that the difference between I and l isn't obvious, then
    >>> yes. But that's true of many sans-serif fonts. And even some serif
    >>> fonts make l and 1 look almost identica1.

    >>
    >>
    >> No that is not true.

    >
    >
    > What is not true?
    >
    >> The confusion is between the uppercase 'i' and lowercase 'l' with
    >> Arial (common to many sans-serif fonts). The number '1' is
    >> distinguishable for the letter characters by a upper simplified serif,
    >> (little tang going off the left) where the letter characters have no
    >> such serif. Actually the legibility problem is with serif fonts like
    >> Times and Times New Roman that have a problem between lowercase 'l'
    >> and the numeral '1'!

    >
    >
    > You seem to be saying exactly what I just said, only in different words.


    Sorry you are correct, I misread what you wrote, we are saying the same
    thing...


    >>> OTOH, there's a school of thought that thinks that sans-serif fonts
    >>> are actually best for online documents. Allegedly easier on the
    >>> eyes, or something like that.

    >>
    >>
    >> They are easier to read because they are 'blacker' (heavier weight) in
    >> general and the simplified lines are easier to read when smaller or in
    >> lower contrast situations. Script and decorative fonts are probably
    >> the least legible and should only be used sparingly

    >
    >
    > Does this mean that if you took a sans-serif font and added serifs to
    > it, then it would be as easy to read as the original sans-serif font?


    They [sans-serif] are easier to read because they are 'blacker' (heavier
    weight) in general and the simplified lines are easier to read
    [especially] when smaller or in lower contrast situations.

    Serif fonts are genenerally more difficult to read in the above situations.

    Script and decorative fonts are *least* legible I said. A whole page
    full of 'Aristocrat', 'Old English' or 'Kidnap' can be a b*tch to read
    especially in great quantity and in reduced sizes (font-size<100%).

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jan 24, 2006
    #17
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