How do I get this to work?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by delerious@no.spam.com, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Please take a look at the following page:

    If you are using IE: http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index2.html
    If you are using Mozilla: http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index2_moz.html

    I'm trying to have a navigation menu on the left, and content on the right.
    With my default browser setups, there is a little bit of whitespace between
    the navigation menu and the content area, which is what I want. But I would
    also like the user to be able to view the page with whatever text size he/she
    prefers, and that is where my page breaks. If I increase (in IE) or decrease
    (in IE or Mozilla) the text size, then the navigation menu all of a sudden
    overlaps with the content area. I'm using em to specify the left side of the
    content area, so I thought that would move the content area over the correct
    amount when the text size gets adjusted, but either I don't understand em or I
    am not doing it correctly.

    I also thought that the fact that I am using images in my navigation menu
    might be screwing up the em, but that is not the case, as you can see here:

    If you are using IE: http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index3.html
    If you are using Mozilla: http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index3_moz.html

    Any tips on how I can get this to work would be appreciated! Thanks!
    , Dec 4, 2003
    #1
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  2. Guest

    Hmm... it would appear that tables *are* still necessary in some cases to
    manage layout.
    , Dec 4, 2003
    #2
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  3. Mark Parnell Guest

    Mark Parnell, Dec 4, 2003
    #3
  4. delerious wrote:

    > Hmm... it would appear that tables *are* still necessary in some cases to
    > manage layout.


    Or that most of us are bored of all these layout questions and don't feel
    compelled to answer every "How do I..." question posted.

    The fact of the matter is that any table-based layout can be replicated in
    CSS (as long as you're not worried about retrofitting it to work in
    years-old broken browsers).

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
    Toby A Inkster, Dec 4, 2003
    #4
  5. Stan Brown Guest

    In article <> in
    comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets, <>
    wrote:
    >Please take a look at the following page:
    >
    >If you are using IE: http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index2.html
    >If you are using Mozilla: http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index2_moz.html


    Does nobody but me see something very wrong with the idea that there
    should be different pages for different browsers?

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com/
    HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
    validator: http://validator.w3.org/
    CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
    2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html
    validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
    Stan Brown, Dec 5, 2003
    #5
  6. Quoth the raven named Stan Brown:

    > In article <> in
    > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets, <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Please take a look at the following page:
    >>
    >>If you are using IE: http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index2.html
    >>If you are using Mozilla: http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index2_moz.html

    >
    > Does nobody but me see something very wrong with the idea that there
    > should be different pages for different browsers?


    Hey, I'm with ya. See the other thread that begins with "arghh."

    Separate browser versions are complete headaches to maintain. A
    well-planned layout doesn't even need two versions for screen and print.

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Dec 5, 2003
    #6
  7. Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > A well-planned layout doesn't even need two versions for screen and print.


    How so? I don't know about you, but I don't want to see navigation or
    login information on a printed page.
    Leif K-Brooks, Dec 6, 2003
    #7
  8. Leif K-Brooks wrote:
    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> A well-planned layout doesn't even need two versions for screen and
    >> print.

    >
    > How so? I don't know about you, but I don't want to see navigation or
    > login information on a printed page.


    quite right, but that doesn't mean two versions

    --
    William Tasso - http://WilliamTasso.com
    William Tasso, Dec 6, 2003
    #8
  9. Stan Brown Guest

    In article <ZIfAb.288$> in
    comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets, Leif K-Brooks
    <> wrote:
    >Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> A well-planned layout doesn't even need two versions for screen and print.

    >
    >How so? I don't know about you, but I don't want to see navigation or
    >login information on a printed page.


    Neither do most of us -- that's why most of us assign classes to
    those items that are display:none on the print stylesheet.

    The idea is that there are two stylesheets, but only one of every
    Web page.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com/
    HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
    validator: http://validator.w3.org/
    CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
    2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html
    validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
    Stan Brown, Dec 6, 2003
    #9
  10. William Tasso wrote:
    > quite right, but that doesn't mean two versions


    Sorry, my mistake. Thought Beauregard T. Shagnasty was talking about
    seperate style sheets, not seperate pages.
    Leif K-Brooks, Dec 6, 2003
    #10
  11. Quoth the raven named Leif K-Brooks:

    > William Tasso wrote:
    >
    >> quite right, but that doesn't mean two versions

    >
    > Sorry, my mistake. Thought Beauregard T. Shagnasty was talking about
    > seperate style sheets, not seperate pages.


    Yes, I was referring to not needing separate pages for screen and
    print, as well as not needing separate pages for different browsers.

    My print style sheets remove the display of navigation and other fluff
    and also set the default font to serif, which my clients seem to
    prefer on paper.

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Dec 6, 2003
    #11
  12. writes:

    >If you are using IE:

    http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index2.html
    >If you are using Mozilla:

    http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/index2_moz.html

    Greetings, First note above that in quoting from your message I broke the two
    lines into four, so each URL is on a line by itself. That makes it easier for
    people to select/highlight the url and copy and paste it into the address bar
    of the browser without getting some extra text at the beginning or end in
    error. My browser SO TOTALLY did not understand an "If you are using IE"
    protocol, and then I had to wait for a thirty second system response timeout
    before going back to square one. Be advised also that I went to view the pages
    before reading the rest of your message to see what you were asking about, so
    my observations are based mainly on problems I observed before reading your
    message completely.

    >I'm trying to have a navigation menu on the left, and content on the right.
    >With my default browser setups, there is a little bit of whitespace between
    >the navigation menu and the content area, which is what I want. But I would
    >also like the user to be able to view the page with whatever text size he/she
    >prefers, and that is where my page breaks.


    Allright, with my browser set to 640x480 and using IE, medium font setting,
    both your IE and Mozilla page appeared the same. Here are my observations:

    1. The "first paragraph" line was invisible, positioned under the navigation
    bar.
    Two possible reasons for the 1st paragraph disappearing under the toolbar:
    a. The "content" DIV is located before the "navigation1" DIV
    b. The "content" DIV has a height=100% value. (?)
    2. The glaring "Cyan" text background is hard on the eyes. A lighter shade of
    the toolbar blue would be a nice contrast.
    3. The left edge of the Cyan text area appeared under the second "I" of
    NAVIGATION_MENU_ITEM2
    4. Did I mention I really like the shade of blue on the navigation bar? :)
    5. The lighter mouse hover bgColor was too close to the light text color, but
    that's a minor issue since the mouse pointer blocks the view of the text
    anyway.
    6. Your STYLE section is in the BODY instead of the HEAD, which is no big deal
    for Internet Explorer as long as it is before the sections it modifies, but
    some browsers may get confused.
    7. The margin-left of 12em, besides putting the left edge of the text area over
    as noted above, also apparently caused the page to be larger than my screen
    size by the same amount, making it necessary to use the bottom scoll bar to
    shift left to display the entire Cyan area. I didn't see any other width
    elements or other code that would have forced the page to display wider than my
    screen resolution.
    8. Almost forgot, the 3 navigation links were side-by-side at the top,
    beginning in the upper left, and not one below each other in a left column like
    the 2nd group in the page displayed at this URL:
    http://home.comcast.net/~delerious1/

    I didn't think to change my font display size to see the effect on the "em"
    thing. As noted in another message thread, an "em" in typography is a letter
    "M" width. However, my HTML Reference, style section for "em" says it is "the
    HEIGHT of the element's font." (And an "ex" is the height as the letter "x".)
    If you included a content margin-top of 1em, the first paragraph should appear
    lower, whether your content DIV is located before or after the navigation DIV.

    > I'm using em to specify the left side of the content area,
    >so I thought that would move the content area over the correct

    amount when the text size gets adjusted,

    Wait a minute, I just realized, sometimes when you change the browser font
    display size while a page is displayed, you need to refresh/reload the page for
    all aspects of the display to re-adjust to the different setting.

    Welp, can't seem to scratch any more thoughts out of my brain...
    Best Wishes. --Richard


    Pilgrims and the Mayflower Compact
    http://members.aol.com/RichClark7/pilgrims.htm

    Jesus' Birth (and related issues)
    http://members.aol.com/RichClark7/read/birth_JC.htm
    Richard Clark, Dec 8, 2003
    #12
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