Let me check it right now:
http://members.tripod.com/~MaasInfo/SeekJob/Resume.98B.txt
That's 60 lines of text. You're correct, it's too long too many lines.
How many lines is the maximum for a resume?
If you have a lot of "meat", you can possibly go as long as 3 pages -
but thats not 3 pages of plain ascii, thats 3 pages correctly
formatted in an "accepted" format - MS Word Doc or PDF. Normally,
about 2 pages of formatted text (with headings, columns, tables,
bold/italic/unerline etc.
It looks formatted pretty well given the one-page restriction and plain
ASCII text, but perhaps you have some specific changes you'd like?
Plan ascii text won't do it. People like to see something which is
presented well - it shows effort, ability to use a word processor and
possibly some style. Your resume needs to be eye catching and it needs
to be presented in such a way that the person reading it can identify
the key bits immediately and not have to read the whole thing. You
have to remember in larger organisations, the initial culling of
applications is usually done by some junior staff member from the HR
department - they know nothing about programming, computer or IT. They
have a list of key words or criteria which they look for - those that
have it get to the next stage, those that don't get filed in the round
filing cabinet under the desk!
What specifically? I'd be glad to cut out parts that the majority of
people in this newsgroup consider so grossly worthless that I shouldn't
include them even though I spent a lot of time doing those things and
it would really be dishonest to exclude them, but if dishonesty by
omission is necessary to get a job I'm willing to bend. So which items
specifically should I delete?
Well, as you have soooo many resumes at the web site, I couldn't be
bothered reading all of them (hint). The one I looked at had lots
about programming assembler on computers that haven't be around for
20+ years i.e. PDP-10. All of that could have been summarised as
something like x years assembler programming. this would show you have
that skill - the specifics is not that relevant unless the job had a
specific requirement. Again, the objective is to just peak interest,
not tell them all the detail.
You can use CV or resume - these days, the two are pretty
interchangable. Generally, a CV indicates you have a degree. However,
use what you feel most comfortable with and stop nit pickiing - you
know perfectly well what I was getting at.
It's already that. What are you complaining about??
The one I looked at was not clearly labelled and looked pretty bloody
awful.
My most recent employment is more than ten years ago. I've gotten good
advice *not* to make my lack of recent employment a major attraction in
my resume, or it'd be tossed before any of the good stuff would ever be
seen.
You don't have any "good stuff"! Normally, that advice would be pretty
good, but you need to show that you can hold down employment and if
you don't put it in, you have nothing. Besides, the resume I looked at
had stuff going all the way back to high school and all your
employment from the 70's. If your going to put it all in, put it in
reverse order.
I've also been advised very strongly not to include any employment more
than ten years ago, and to only summarize anything between five and ten
years ago, not list it individually.
Well, thats not what was in the resume I looked at.
I've never used any programming language commercially, except 2.5 weeks
of Think C 9n 1992.
then your stuffed.
Well there was one resume I wrote that didn't say any specifics at all,
no PDP-10 or 6502 or 8080 or 68000 or IBM-1620 or IBM-1130, only the
number/variety of different things I did to emphasize how I've learned
so many different languages/environments/applicationAreas that surely I
can easily learn five or ten more on a new job.
http://members.tripod.com/~MaasInfo/SeekJob/Resume.942.txt
It's only 57 lines, three lines shorter than the other. Maybe you'd
like it better?
No, it still looks like crap.
I agree. That's why for C and C++ I used Google to find a free set of
code to do the form-contents-decoding, not part of a large library, but
just a standalone piece of already-debugged (almost, I had to fix a few
bugs before they'd work on this system) that would be small enough that
I could show it as part of my demo of how to do CGI/C and CGI/C++
software. I made sure the C code was pure C, no cheating by using stuff
that the Gnu C/C++ compiler or Visual-C++ compiler could fake in C
program even though it wasn't valid ANSI C but was actually C++. Also I
made sure the C++ code was true C++ code in both standard and style,
not C code that got minimal transformation to run under C++
environment but which was actually C at heart and only sham of C++.
In 25 years involvement in IT, I've never once been asked to show a
demo. In the past 10 years, I cannot remember the number of selection
committees etc I've been on and not once have we ever asked to see a
demo.
think of it this way -
1. You send off an application which includes a 1 page covering
letting, your resume and possibly, if asked for in the ad,
demonstration (in words) of how you meet the selection criteria. If
they do list selection criteria, address each of them individually
with clear headings and don't use more than 1 or two paragraphs for
each. If they don't list or ask for you to demonstrate how you meet
each criteria, make your covering letter a bit longer (no more than
two pages) presenting a convincing argument why you should be
selected for interview and what you think you have of benefit to
them. The only goal at this point is to make them believe your
worth interviewing either because you meet all the selection
criteria or because you bring something new to the table which
peaks their interest.
I tried looking for regular employment for years, but lots of people
told me that was impossible, that I need to get some short-term
contract work, and then with that proven track record some company
might risk hiring me on the longer term, in fact one of the short-term
contracts might develop into a long-term job. So you see I get so much
contradictory advice that I really have to ignore most of it, and
accept only that which doesn't contract a lot of other advice I also
get.
That rarely works. You are almost never ever going to get contract
work or consulting work without a proven current track record. Nobody
is going to take the risk of getting fired for employing someone with
no proven ability or track record - even if they thought you were very
capable and possibly a good choice, they will go with the safer person
who has (or appears to have) a good track record.
My only technical commercial experience, except for 2.5 weeks in 1992,
is within the past 2.2 years. How can you say such recent experience is
outdated? Are Visual Basic, C, C++, and Java, all outdated, in your
opinion?
No, they are not outdated, but you do not have any real commercial
experience in any of those - stuff you have done on your own does not
count for anything - its only commercial experience they are
interested in and since by your own admission you have not had a job
in ove 10 years, I can't see how you could claim Java experience (nor
C/C++ for that matter).
I have a lot of good talent and skills, valuable to an employer, that
most others don't have. Maybe you can help me convince an employer to
recognize that?
No, you are the one who has to convince them. However, your
argumentative attitude, constant blaming of your situation on external
forces and (unfairly) your age are all against you. I do not see you
getting a job as a Java, C or C++ programmer in this lifetime.
Your question is based on a false premise. I **have** been trying to
get programming jobs in areas where I have expertise (educational
software, information retrieval/access, etc.), but I've never been able
to find anyone interested in my skills in those areas. The closest I
ever came was when my former boss referred me to a company that did
educational software for children, and took me on a tour of what they
were doing, but none of it was actually educational where it actually
makes sure a child learns something, it was all play-explore stuff
which is fine for spending idle time getting familiar with some stuff
that looks interesting but is totally insufficient at making sure the
child ever really learned anything. It's like a computer version of the
child watching Sesame Street all day. Yeah, the child eventually picks
up a few things here and there, but there's no competance at anything.
So anyway I was told they aren't interested in any software that
actually teaches the child anything, only in making sure the child
enjoys the experience of playing with the computer games, so none of my
experience is of any value there.
I must have missed the part in your resume which outlined your
commercial experience in writing educational software. All I saw was
work at Santa Cruz and Stanford - but I could easily have missed it as
the resume was not very well formatted and very boring. I have to
admit, I lost interest about half way through (which should tell you
something).
I have no experience in the kind of modeling you're talking about, nor
in any signal processing whatsoever. The only communications jobs I've
seen required specific experience managing/configuring TCP/IP stacks,
which I've never done.
I suggested this because your degree was in mathematics, your awards
at school were in mathematics and you obviously (I thought) had an
aptitude in this area. Finding programmers with really good solid
backgrounds in maths is actually qite difficult - thre seems to be a
lot of programmers out there which have mastered programming, but are
very poor in maths. I know of quite a lot of companies who have had a
very difficult time finding good programmers which are also talented
at maths. Some of the most interesting programming jobs I've seen fall
into this catagory. Lets face it, web application programming can be
extremely dull and there are lots of people willing to do it. However,
programming in areas relating to things like modelling of complex
systems, stock breeding/genetics, processing signals from various
sensors, application of technology in new areas etc, can be extremely
rewarding. Personally, I find this sort of work far more interesting
than web apps or basic information storage and retrieval. While there
may not be as many jobs in these areas, there is also a lot less
competition. Also, in these types of jobs, they tend to be less
interested in your knowledge of the "hot" language technology and mroe
interested in your abilities to solve problems etc.
Because Java is my second-best language, my best being Lisp, and there
are no jobs whatsoever in Lisp, whereas 2.5 years ago I actually saw a
job ad for Java that I would have qualified for a year later. So I'm
only one year away from a chance at a Java job, whereas twenty years
away from any other kind of job.
If thats the case, I would *strongly* suggest you give up looking for
a programming job - apart from not ahving any experience, I'm now
skeptical about your ability to program.
The reason I make such an outrageous statement is that I beleive the
language is, in the main, irrelevant. What is more important is your
understanding of the underlying concepts (data structurers,
algorithms, analytical skill and the ability to apply these skills).
etc). The language is just syntax and less important. I've often
employed people who did not have much experience in the specific
language being used, but had excellent understanding of data
structures, algorithms and their analysis and the ability to take a
problem, analyse it and design a robust and maintainable solution. In
fact, nearly every time I've changed jobs, I've ended up having to
learn a new language. Like the book titles say "Learn XXX in 21 Days"
- you only need that long to learn the syntax - it takes a lot longer
to learn how to analyse a problem, identify the correct data
abstractions and algorithms and then implement the solution - the
implementation is the easy part (assuming you got the earlier steps
correct).
Show me one job opening that matches my strenghths in Lisp programming
or computer-assisted instruction.
Again, I woldn't consider those to really be strengths. Your strengths
are (possibly) in your rigor and ability to abstract a problem down to
its fundamental parts (coming from a maths background), possibly your
life experiences, possibly skills you developed in what little work
you have had etc. I will employ the prson who fits in with the rest of
the team, shows they are self motivated and have initiative and keen
before I'll ever employ that bitter twisted arrogant and difficult
loner who has 10 yeras experience with the language we use - its much
easier to teach simple language syntax than to change someones
personality or waste resources getting them motivated etc.
Tim