How to deal with the text/content of a site

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Nico Schuyt, Sep 4, 2003.

  1. Nico Schuyt

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Normally I only create the layout for a site. Text is the responsibility of
    the client.
    (Of course I run a spell checker and give some advices when appropriate)
    Problem is it sometimes takes a long time before a site can be finished
    because the client doesn't submit the text. That's why I have a statement in
    the contract that payment has to be made when the prototype (dummy pictures
    and text) is accepted.
    It's however frustrating that it takes so long before a site is completed
    and operational. Maybe it's commercially attractive to offer myself as a
    (paid) text writer.
    Curious how you deal with this.
    Cheers, Nico
     
    Nico Schuyt, Sep 4, 2003
    #1
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  2. In article <3f56de1a$0$28909$>,
    says...
    > Normally I only create the layout for a site. Text is the responsibility of
    > the client.
    > (Of course I run a spell checker and give some advices when appropriate)
    > Problem is it sometimes takes a long time before a site can be finished
    > because the client doesn't submit the text. That's why I have a statement in
    > the contract that payment has to be made when the prototype (dummy pictures
    > and text) is accepted.
    > It's however frustrating that it takes so long before a site is completed
    > and operational. Maybe it's commercially attractive to offer myself as a
    > (paid) text writer.
    > Curious how you deal with this.


    Either add CMS to the site so they can maintain the site themselves, or
    ring them every other day!

    --
    Hywel
     
    Hywel Jenkins, Sep 4, 2003
    #2
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  3. Nico Schuyt wrote:
    > Normally I only create the layout for a site. Text is the responsibility of
    > the client.
    > (Of course I run a spell checker and give some advices when appropriate)
    > Problem is it sometimes takes a long time before a site can be finished
    > because the client doesn't submit the text. That's why I have a statement in
    > the contract that payment has to be made when the prototype (dummy pictures
    > and text) is accepted.


    Very good idea! Content is always late.


    > It's however frustrating that it takes so long before a site is completed
    > and operational. Maybe it's commercially attractive to offer myself as a
    > (paid) text writer.


    It could speed things up because you're involved in text production, but
    are you a proficient writer?


    > Curious how you deal with this.


    Haven't found a bullet-proof solution yet. Of course it helps if you
    work together with your client on the content, before even thinking
    about layout, but many clients insist on seeing how it looks before they
    even know what they want.

    So we pray to &deity and tell the client we can't publish the site...

    You could add a paragraph about "held resources" and make the client pay
    for each day the content is late. Usually there's somebody higher up in
    the food chain that'll make the client submit the text eventually.

    But basically late content is just one of the things you really can't do
    anything about. Just be patient and go jogging to deal with the
    frustration :).


    Matthias
     
    Matthias Gutfeldt, Sep 4, 2003
    #3
  4. Nico Schuyt

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Hywel Jenkins wrote:
    > says...
    >> It's however frustrating that it takes so long before a site is
    >> completed and operational. Maybe it's commercially attractive to
    >> offer myself as a (paid) text writer.
    >> Curious how you deal with this.

    >
    > Either add CMS to the site so they can maintain the site themselves,
    > or ring them every other day!


    Most of my recent sites have CMS (Content Management System I presume?) for
    certain pages like "News". Not for pages that are relative static like
    "Company profile".
    The CMS however doesn't solve it. They still have to compose the text.
    And I don't ring them every other day (probably the best way to loose a
    customer :)
    Cheers, Nico
     
    Nico Schuyt, Sep 4, 2003
    #4
  5. Nico Schuyt

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Matthias Gutfeldt wrote:
    > Nico Schuyt wrote:
    >> Normally I only create the layout for a site. Text is the
    >> responsibility of the client.
    >> (Of course I run a spell checker and give some advices when
    >> appropriate) Problem is it sometimes takes a long time before a site
    >> can be finished because the client doesn't submit the text. That's
    >> why I have a statement in the contract that payment has to be made
    >> when the prototype (dummy pictures and text) is accepted.


    > Very good idea! Content is always late.


    >> It's however frustrating that it takes so long before a site is
    >> completed and operational. Maybe it's commercially attractive to
    >> offer myself as a (paid) text writer.


    > It could speed things up because you're involved in text production,
    > but are you a proficient writer?


    Ehhh no. But I'm better than most of the customers I've had :) There seems
    to be very little relation between being succesfull in bussiness and
    capability to express oneself in writing.

    >> Curious how you deal with this.


    > Haven't found a bullet-proof solution yet. Of course it helps if you
    > work together with your client on the content, before even thinking
    > about layout, but many clients insist on seeing how it looks before
    > they even know what they want.


    Right. But the first thing I ask is "What do you expect the site will do for
    you?" Based on that information I make a setup with the basic structure and
    dummy text.

    > So we pray to &deity and tell the client we can't publish the site...
    > You could add a paragraph about "held resources" and make the client
    > pay for each day the content is late.

    I don't dare to add such a clause :-( But in fact it costs *me* money
    because I have to remind the customer a number of times and it takes more
    time to continue after a longer pause. Especially when complex PHP programs
    are involved.

    > Usually there's somebody higher
    > up in the food chain that'll make the client submit the text
    > eventually.


    Ehh, not in my case. The customers I have are always on top of the hierachy.

    > But basically late content is just one of the things you really can't
    > do anything about. Just be patient and go jogging to deal with the
    > frustration :).


    Good advice!
    Regards, Nico
     
    Nico Schuyt, Sep 4, 2003
    #5
  6. Nico Schuyt

    Augustus Guest

    "Nico Schuyt" <> wrote in message
    news:3f56de1a$0$28909$...
    > Normally I only create the layout for a site. Text is the responsibility

    of
    > the client.
    > (Of course I run a spell checker and give some advices when appropriate)
    > Problem is it sometimes takes a long time before a site can be finished
    > because the client doesn't submit the text. That's why I have a statement

    in
    > the contract that payment has to be made when the prototype (dummy

    pictures
    > and text) is accepted.
    > It's however frustrating that it takes so long before a site is completed
    > and operational. Maybe it's commercially attractive to offer myself as a
    > (paid) text writer.
    > Curious how you deal with this.


    For billing, I used to do 25% up front, 50% at the halfway mark and then 25%
    at the end (for a typical site... a really big job would need some kind of
    payment schedule)

    Pretty much if you stick to something like this, even if you get to the
    99.9% done mark and are just waiting on the final text from the client you
    have 75% of your pay already... You could also put in something in your
    contract to cover this too (especially if you find it happens to you alot)
    where you can call a site "done" and ask for final payment if the customer
    is making you wait.

    As for just writing the site content yourself... I have the skills to write
    great site content, but I would always ask for the customers to do it...
    then if they were taking too long to provide text, I would come up with the
    "I know somebody who can write content and they will do it for $X per page
    if you don't have time" (depending on the client, sometimes I would just
    throw in free content to get the job done)

    Clint
     
    Augustus, Sep 4, 2003
    #6
  7. Nico Schuyt

    andy johnson Guest

    On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:53:47 -0700, "Augustus"
    <> wrote:


    >
    >For billing, I used to do 25% up front, 50% at the halfway mark and then 25%
    >at the end (for a typical site... a really big job would need some kind of
    >payment schedule)
    >
    >Pretty much if you stick to something like this, even if you get to the
    >99.9% done mark and are just waiting on the final text from the client you
    >have 75% of your pay already... You could also put in something in your
    >contract to cover this too (especially if you find it happens to you alot)
    >where you can call a site "done" and ask for final payment if the customer
    >is making you wait.


    >Clint
    >


    This is called substantial completion, and is a very standard contract
    provision. You can also specify "no hold back" so if you are being
    delayed by the customer, you can put up your work, and call it
    complete (give notice of completion), qualifying for payment in full,
    even thought the site is technically incomplete. You always need to
    word any statements about completion in terms of your work being
    complete, not the site being functional. You can't allow your customer
    to hold up you getting paid.

    Andy

    "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
    didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
    - (Calvin and Hobbes)
     
    andy johnson, Sep 5, 2003
    #7
  8. Nico Schuyt

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Augustus wrote:
    >Nico Schuyt wrote
    >> I have a statement in the contract that payment has to be made
    >> when the prototype (dummy pictures and text) is accepted.
    >> It's however frustrating that it takes so long before a site is
    >> completed and operational. Maybe it's commercially attractive to
    >> offer myself as a (paid) text writer.
    >> Curious how you deal with this.


    > For billing, I used to do 25% up front, 50% at the halfway mark and
    > then 25% at the end


    Isn't that a lot of administration for a default site of, let's say, $1000?

    > (for a typical site... a really big job would
    > need some kind of payment schedule)


    What's "a really big job" in your opinion? (I myself never exceeded $5000
    for a site)

    > Pretty much if you stick to something like this, even if you get to
    > the
    > 99.9% done mark and are just waiting on the final text from the
    > client you have 75% of your pay already... You could also put in
    > something in your contract to cover this too (especially if you find
    > it happens to you alot) where you can call a site "done" and ask for
    > final payment if the customer is making you wait.


    Well, I think my approach is easier: Full payment after working prototype
    :)
    In case of a normal site that involves about 50-70% of the job. So the risc
    is limited.

    > As for just writing the site content yourself... I have the skills
    > to write great site content, but I would always ask for the customers
    > to do it... then if they were taking too long to provide text, I
    > would come up with the "I know somebody who can write content and
    > they will do it for $X per page if you don't have time"


    Disadvantage is maybe that it's difficult to offer a fixed price. For
    example, how long should that page be?
    What is a reasonable price for work like this?

    Thanks for the reply. Always interesting to read how others deal with such
    things.
    Cheers, Nico
     
    Nico Schuyt, Sep 5, 2003
    #8
  9. Nico Schuyt

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    andy johnson wrote:
    > You can't allow your customer
    > to hold up you getting paid.


    Fully agree :)
    Regards, Nico
     
    Nico Schuyt, Sep 5, 2003
    #9
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