How to go about developing in zope

Discussion in 'Python' started by john, Sep 16, 2004.

  1. john

    john Guest

    Hi
    I am developing a timesheet system.
    It will have 3 levels of access
    1)Administrator
    2)Approver -- Will approve or reject the timesheet filled by employees
    3)Employees -- Fill in the timesheet which will ontain info like start
    time & end for task & task description.
    There will be different projects with different employees & approvers
    Also I need to genrate reports like timesheet for an employee for this
    particular week or month.Or timesheet of a project etc..

    Is zope suitable for such kind of application?
    I read the zope book & now I am more confused.
    What is the best way to develop such kinda application in zope?
     
    john, Sep 16, 2004
    #1
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  2. john wrote:

    > Is zope suitable for such kind of application?


    yes.

    > What is the best way to develop such kinda application in zope?


    Start with a simple site then keep reimplementing with the new
    techniques that you learn.

    Istvan.
     
    Istvan Albert, Sep 16, 2004
    #2
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  3. john:
    >What is the best way to develop such kinda application in zope?


    I've found it helpful to forget about Zope, just design an object oriënted
    solution for the problem, ignoring persistence for the time being (no
    object-relational mapping), map clean URLs to objects and methods, use
    plain HTML as templates, and so on. Then, when you're done, you'll have a
    perfect Zope application.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter Isselstijn, Sep 17, 2004
    #3
  4. john

    john Guest

    Istvan Albert <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > john wrote:
    >
    > > Is zope suitable for such kind of application?

    >
    > yes.
    >
    > > What is the best way to develop such kinda application in zope?

    >
    > Start with a simple site then keep reimplementing with the new
    > techniques that you learn.
    >
    > Istvan.


    I dont know how zope will simplify my work in developing such an application??
     
    john, Sep 17, 2004
    #4
  5. Am Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:54:16 -0700 schrieb john:

    > Hi
    > I am developing a timesheet system.
    > It will have 3 levels of access
    > 1)Administrator
    > 2)Approver -- Will approve or reject the timesheet filled by employees
    > 3)Employees -- Fill in the timesheet which will ontain info like start
    > time & end for task & task description.
    > There will be different projects with different employees & approvers
    > Also I need to genrate reports like timesheet for an employee for this
    > particular week or month.Or timesheet of a project etc..
    >
    > Is zope suitable for such kind of application?
    > I read the zope book & now I am more confused.


    Hi,

    You can use ZODB without Zope, too.

    I use quixote and ZODB with some small parts from
    dulcinea (method start_request). I switched to this
    after using zope for more than one year.

    This is much simpler to debug than Zope.

    HTH,
    Thomas
     
    Thomas Guettler, Sep 17, 2004
    #5
  6. john

    Josef Meile Guest

    Hi John,

    > I am developing a timesheet system.
    > It will have 3 levels of access
    > 1)Administrator
    > 2)Approver -- Will approve or reject the timesheet filled by employees
    > 3)Employees -- Fill in the timesheet which will ontain info like start
    > time & end for task & task description.
    > There will be different projects with different employees & approvers
    > Also I need to genrate reports like timesheet for an employee for this
    > particular week or month.Or timesheet of a project etc..
    >
    > Is zope suitable for such kind of application?
    > I read the zope book & now I am more confused.
    > What is the best way to develop such kinda application in zope?

    By coincidence, I was looking at the source code of a product related to
    your requirements:
    http://www.zope.org/Members/runyaga/ZTimesheet

    This is a clone, which I haven't looked at:
    http://zope.org/Members/Nielssteenkrogh/My_projects/ZTIMEPROJECT

    You could look also at the source code of my JMBoring product. It may
    help you developing your zope python based product:
    http://zope.org/Members/jmeile/JMBoring

    Some useful links, which I think are the guidelines you must read before
    developing your python product:

    http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZDG/current/index_html
    http://www.zope.org/Members/gtk/Boring/HowTo-Boring
    http://www.zope.org/Members/maxm/HowTo/minimal_01/
    http://www.zope.org/Members/Zen/howto/ZPT_management

    Some of them are old, but still apply to the current zope version.

    I think the best way to develop such product is by using an external
    database to store the data (for the zope interaction, you can use an
    existent Zope Database Adapter - See the zope book for more info), doing
    the interfaces with ZPT (Zope's Page Templates -> Don't use DTML), and
    coding the logic on a python based product (forget about ZClasses)

    Regards,
    Josef

    PS: Please in the future post your zope related questions to:


    See info for subscription on:
    http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
     
    Josef Meile, Sep 17, 2004
    #6
  7. john wrote:

    > I dont know how zope will simplify my work in developing such an application??


    There is no easy answer to this. In fact it could happen that
    Zope will complicate your work. The best way to evaluate a
    framework is to try to implement a simple site. Do the tutorials,
    fool around just for the sake of it. Don't try to accomplish
    your goals right away because your first job will suck in
    any new framework.

    Istvan.
     
    Istvan Albert, Sep 17, 2004
    #7
  8. john

    john Guest

    Peter Isselstijn <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > john:
    > >What is the best way to develop such kinda application in zope?

    >
    > I've found it helpful to forget about Zope, just design an object oriënted
    > solution for the problem, ignoring persistence for the time being (no
    > object-relational mapping), map clean URLs to objects and methods, use
    > plain HTML as templates, and so on. Then, when you're done, you'll have a
    > perfect Zope application.


    Are there any tutorial on buliding a data driven(i.e database ) website with zope??
     
    john, Sep 17, 2004
    #8
  9. john

    john Guest

    Josef Meile <> wrote in message news:<>...

    > I think the best way to develop such product is by using an external
    > database to store the data (for the zope interaction, you can use an
    > existent Zope Database Adapter - See the zope book for more info), doing
    > the interfaces with ZPT (Zope's Page Templates -> Don't use DTML), and
    > coding the logic on a python based product (forget about ZClasses)
    >

    But doing it this way is same as doing in php or any
    other framework like cherrypy .How does zope help me?
    From my understanding I think in zope we have to
    develop Zclasses for objects not already available
    which in this application can be timesheet etc.... Am
    I right?? Also how zope helps me to implement different kind of access
    level for users(admin,apprver,employee)or I have to resort to plain
    old relational database for it too??
     
    john, Sep 18, 2004
    #9
  10. john

    Miklós Guest

    "john" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > develop Zclasses for objects not already available
    > which in this application can be timesheet etc.... Am
    > I right?? Also how zope helps me to implement different kind of access
    > level for users(admin,apprver,employee)or I have to resort to plain
    > old relational database for it too??


    I think Zope is pretty nice to develop this kind of application without
    using an RDBMS, a BTreeFolder can easily store a *lot* of objects, etc.
    Support for access levels are just great in Zope, fine grained,
    hierarchical, can be mapped out to external resources, etc.
    Sorry, not to really flame you but your questions are RTFM. Read the Zope
    book on zope.org
    Besides, like Josef pointed out, this is not the right place to ask about
    Zope, this is c.l.p.

    Best,
    Miklós
     
    Miklós, Sep 19, 2004
    #10
  11. john a écrit :
    (snip)
    > Are there any tutorial on buliding a data driven(i.e database ) website with zope??

    Yes, on zope.org
     
    bruno modulix, Sep 20, 2004
    #11
  12. john a écrit :
    > Hi
    > I am developing a timesheet system.
    > It will have 3 levels of access
    > 1)Administrator
    > 2)Approver -- Will approve or reject the timesheet filled by employees
    > 3)Employees -- Fill in the timesheet which will ontain info like start
    > time & end for task & task description.
    > There will be different projects with different employees & approvers
    > Also I need to genrate reports like timesheet for an employee for this
    > particular week or month.Or timesheet of a project etc..


    What you need here is :
    - a good date and time lib
    - a good workflow management
    - users and roles management

    Zope provides all three.
    My best guess is that you should have a look on the last release of CPS
    (Collaborative Portal Server, a zope-based CMS/Groupware), it has a
    shared agenda module and probably most of what you need.

    > Is zope suitable for such kind of application?


    Guess...

    > I read the zope book & now I am more confused.
    > What is the best way to develop such kinda application in zope?


    Zope is somewhat hard to get started with... First do some pretty simple
    things, just to become familiar with the beast. Then learn how to write
    simple products.

    My 2 cents
    Bruno
     
    bruno modulix, Sep 20, 2004
    #12
  13. john a écrit :
    > Josef Meile <> wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    >
    >>I think the best way to develop such product is by using an external
    >>database to store the data (for the zope interaction, you can use an
    >>existent Zope Database Adapter - See the zope book for more info), doing
    >>the interfaces with ZPT (Zope's Page Templates -> Don't use DTML), and
    >>coding the logic on a python based product (forget about ZClasses)
    >>

    >
    > But doing it this way is same as doing in php


    Ho no...

    > or any
    > other framework like cherrypy.


    Never used it, so I can't tell

    > How does zope help me?


    How would you know if you don't try ?

    > From my understanding I think in zope we have to
    > develop Zclasses for objects not already available


    Certainly not. Writing products (and eventually 'gluing' them with
    scripts and the like) is much more easy (IMHO) and straightforward.

    > which in this application can be timesheet etc.... Am
    > I right??


    Well... see above !-)

    >Also how zope helps me to implement different kind of access
    > level for users(admin,apprver,employee)


    You'd know it if you'd RTFM.

    > or I have to resort to plain
    > old relational database for it too??


    Why "too" ? You just don't need any RDBMS for this.

    Bruno
     
    bruno modulix, Sep 20, 2004
    #13
  14. On 16 Sep 2004 08:54:16 -0700, john <> wrote:
    > Hi
    > I am developing a timesheet system.
    > It will have 3 levels of access
    > 1)Administrator
    > 2)Approver -- Will approve or reject the timesheet filled by employees
    > 3)Employees -- Fill in the timesheet which will ontain info like start
    > time & end for task & task description.
    > There will be different projects with different employees & approvers
    > Also I need to genrate reports like timesheet for an employee for this
    > particular week or month.Or timesheet of a project etc..
    >
    > Is zope suitable for such kind of application?
    > I read the zope book & now I am more confused.
    > What is the best way to develop such kinda application in zope?


    I'm a little bit late on this thread. Zope is a hell of a product --
    with all possible meanings of "hell" you can imagine :) I found the
    Zope documentation to be a bit intimidating, but it's not a fault of
    the developers -- it's because it's really hard to explain Zope's
    unique framework to new users. It's different from conventional
    programming. To use Zope well, one has to dive deeply and use it all.
    It's not a tool that you can just take a look and use a piece or
    other. It's a full fledged framework that can solve lots of problems,
    but it comes with a price.

    Said that, you'd be well served using Zope. But perhaps you want to
    use a simple framework; or instead, you may want to work at a lower
    level and have more control about how do your application behave. If
    that's your situation, you have a lot of good frameworks to choose
    from. I'd name three that I've evaluated: WebWare, Quixote, and
    CherryPy. Of all three, CherryPy became my favorite, and the upcoming
    version 2 is even better. Take a look at their website, the
    documentation and the examples is really good:

    http://www.cherrypy.org

    For me the biggest selling point of CherryPy is that it includes a
    good HTTP server implementation. It's the perfect match for testing,
    or for easy deployment on Intranets, because the server runs almost
    anywhere with no need for fine tuning -- unless you're talking about
    Slashdot-class sites, of course. Take a look at it, and check the news
    on the CherryPy2 -- the design is simply excellent.


    --
    Carlos Ribeiro
    Consultoria em Projetos
    blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
    blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
    mail:
    mail:
     
    Carlos Ribeiro, Sep 21, 2004
    #14
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