HTML 5 Demos on Apple.com

[SAM]

Le 6/6/10 11:40 AM, Ry Nohryb a écrit :
Not exactly, since I could see some of their demos with my old Firefox.3

They claim HTML.5 and you can't see anything in the apparent HTML code
about that. (all working with JS, more or less well...).

Exactly. But Garrett has problems with reading comprehension.

I don't know what Garret did say, but ...
example :
<http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/audio/>
Hu ?! with Fx, this day I see here a link covering the demo,
that's new ?
Their sniffer is completely idiot :
With Safari.4 my QuickTime (7.6) seems OK
With Firefox.3 they want I download the 7.7 version
.... for Leopard ... when I have Tiger ... !
(they can't see I haven't Leopard with their one hundred lines sniffing
the visitor's config?)
while I understood that Firefox.3.6 could use the audio tag,
while I understood that Firefox.3 just doesn't see that tag.
It would have been enough to show the text(link) of replacement, no ?
(why to continue to show the console behind this nonsense advice about QT ?)

(I do not understand in what QT.7.7 can help more that 7.6 reading audio
tag with Firefox ... ? My own version may read mp3 or ogg or a lot of
audio formats) (no, they just want I upgrade my system then QT, iTunes,
and so on I have nothing to do)

In my Safari.4, their audio "console" shows me no volume button :-(
Is that normal ?

In my Safari.4 when I use "normal" code for the tag audio,
that doesn't display a console as their terrific button
<http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/audio/images/circular_controller.png>
but a stupid console as this of QuickTime (but without volume button)

And more, the Safari's error console :
XHR finished loading:
"http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/global_html5/scripts/ac_media_languages/en-US.json".
/safaridemos/showcase/audio/scripts/audio.js:97
TypeError: Result of expression
'document.getElementById('matrixSelect')' [null] is not an object.
/safaridemos/showcase/audio/scripts/audio.js:173
TypeError: Result of expression 'AC.Tracking.pageName' [undefined] is
not a function.


Scripts (14 fichiers) 154 Ko (615 Ko sans compression)
for that result ? ? ?
Many thanks Apple !
I hate this self glorifying way of doing.
(tout à l'esbroufe)(all swaggering ?)

 

[SAM]

Le 6/7/10 10:11 AM, Xenplex a écrit :

The problem is, that non-techies think that only Safari is capable of
doing HTML5 stuff and/or that when they visit the site with another
browser, that they maybe get a false impression of HTML5: "What's this
crap of HTML5? It doesn't work with my browser!"
You know what I mean.

And, now that all is working with JS, how I can figure that they really
show me HTML.5 features ?
Aren't they only showing me acrobatic dhtml ?

 

[Garrett Smith]

Le 6/6/10 11:40 AM, Ry Nohryb a écrit :

Not exactly, since I could see some of their demos with my old Firefox.3

I can see the audio demo now in Firefox. It doesn't work, but I can at
least load the page.

They claim HTML.5 and you can't see anything in the apparent HTML code
about that. (all working with JS, more or less well...).

Doesn't seem like it, no.

Seems like I read the HTML 5 specification, as I stated, and, as I
stated, applied the knowledge therein to come to the obvious realization
that Apple's HTML 5 demos are not HTML 5 demos -- they are very un-HTML
5; sniffing the userAgent to make an inference about the browser. It's a
bad attempt at massive public deception.

HTML 5 is about, among other things, codifying standards and providing
graceful degradation.

The pertinent part of HTML 5 for userAgent says nothing about what can
be inferred by the value of that string and that's why I cited it. It
says taht the string exists, that it matches whatever was sent in the
corresponding HTTP header, if one was sent, and if one was not sent,
then it is the empty string. Great. that's just right so now we know
that it is safe to say:

alert(navigator.userAgent);

- and that in conforming implementations, that is guaranteed to work.
That seems like a right choice and by having it worded in the spec as
such, it shows that there's nothing that can be inferred by the value.

Making inferences of userAgent is missing the point of HTML 5.

From the draft specification HTML 5 Abstract:

| HTML 5 defines the fifth major revision of the core language of the
| World Wide Web, HTML. This document describes the set of guiding
| principles used by the HTML Working Group for the development of HTML5
| The principles offer guidance for the design of HTML in the areas of
| compatibility, utility and interoperability.

the word "interoperability" is the pertinent term; the Apple's HTML 5
demos are not interoperable.

I don't know what Garret did say, but ...

It's Garrett.

example :
<http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/audio/>
Hu ?! with Fx, this day I see here a link covering the demo,
that's new ?
Their sniffer is completely idiot :
With Safari.4 my QuickTime (7.6) seems OK

Quicktime? Where is that defined in HTML5?

With Firefox.3 they want I download the 7.7 version
... for Leopard ... when I have Tiger ... !
(they can't see I haven't Leopard with their one hundred lines sniffing
the visitor's config?)

See, now that's what I'm saying is missing the point of HTML5. Trying to
identify the OS to determine which plugin needs to be downloaded is
*not* interoperable. It is a failed attempt at a misguided strategy.

HTMl 5 does not define detecting plugins for quicktime or OS.

while I understood that Firefox.3.6 could use the audio tag,
while I understood that Firefox.3 just doesn't see that tag.
It would have been enough to show the text(link) of replacement, no ?
(why to continue to show the console behind this nonsense advice about
QT ?)

(I do not understand in what QT.7.7 can help more that 7.6 reading audio
tag with Firefox ... ? My own version may read mp3 or ogg or a lot of
audio formats) (no, they just want I upgrade my system then QT, iTunes,
and so on I have nothing to do)

In my Safari.4, their audio "console" shows me no volume button :-(
Is that normal ?

In my Safari.4 when I use "normal" code for the tag audio,
that doesn't display a console as their terrific button
<http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/audio/images/circular_controller.png>

but a stupid console as this of QuickTime (but without volume button)

Quicktime has never worked well. As a plugin, it actually has worse
usability the flash player.

And more, the Safari's error console :
XHR finished loading:
"http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/global_html5/scripts/ac_media_languages/en-US.json".

/safaridemos/showcase/audio/scripts/audio.js:97
TypeError: Result of expression
'document.getElementById('matrixSelect')' [null] is not an object.
/safaridemos/showcase/audio/scripts/audio.js:173
TypeError: Result of expression 'AC.Tracking.pageName' [undefined] is
not a function.

Only one browser and it still doesn't work? That is really sad.

The error is not related to a race condition of JSON loading, as you
realized. It is a very careless mistake and can be consistently
reproduced. It that took me about 12 seconds to find the function they
wanted to call using Firebug's script panel "find" feature across
multipe files. I could have fixed it for them in about as much time.

The error message in the console that they don't read shows that
"AC.Tracking.pageName" is not a function.

There is a pageName function defined on AC.ViewMaster.Tracker. Take a
look at line 4 of view_master_tracker.js

view_master_tracker.js, line 3:
| Object.extend(AC.ViewMaster.Tracker.prototype,
| [ omit lines 4-53 ]
|
| pageName: function(section) {
| this._id = '';

Apparently they do not check the error console for the *one* browser
they support and do not do any QA.

This error reminds me of a mistake they had on iTunes pages. For many
months, apple itunes pages were throwing errors with prototype.js. They
simply would not fix the error, and probably out of not knowing what was
causing it in the first place and seeing that if error reporting was
turned off, that nobody would notice. I included that in my Prototype.js
code review back on 2008.

http://dhtmlkitchen.com/?category=/JavaScript/&date=2008/06/17/&=Prototype-js-A-Review

I see that their web development team is still experiencing the sorts of
very basic mistakes.

As far as the choice to use Prototype.js -- they probably learned
Prototype.js out of a need for solutions to help them to do their job
and, being incapable of solving such problems on their own, they turned
to something that could help solve their problems. Seeing other sites
that use prototype and seeing these sites appearing on popular sites
such as Ajaxian might have seemed like an indicator that the code might
be OK for professional usage. If they can't make assessments of the code
quality (and they can't), then it might have seemed prudent to use
Prototype.js (not that it was, just trying to see it from the other
perspective).

[...]

Garrett

 

[SAM]

Le 6/8/10 5:12 AM, Garrett Smith a écrit :

I can see the audio demo now in Firefox. It doesn't work, but I can at
least load the page.

From /safaridemos/ you can go to the presentation of each demo.
Then there you have a button to see the demo :
the right-click --> open in new window/tab
works in my Firefox.3


360° (OK Fx.3) (2Mo !! whom 72 images)
<http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/threesixty/>
typo (+/- OK Fx.3) (Fx.3.6 ?)
<http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/typography/>
video (movy: 39 Mo) (mask effect)
<http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/video/>
transitions bettwen images - where is the html.5 here I don't know
(didn't work in my Safari before images all in cache)
<http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/transitions/>
web gallery (!work Fx.3 CSS webkit ?)
<http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/gallery/>


[...]

[...]
Making inferences of userAgent is missing the point of HTML 5.

But as here it is a demo for webkit ...
(surely with webkit CSS (3?) )
.... why not to not allow other browsers than those webkit build ?

[...]

Quicktime? Where is that defined in HTML5?

I speak of QT about <audio> in Safari because the HTML.5 default audio
console looks like this of QT.
Certainly (I hope, but who know, as I am on Mac) QT's plug-in is not
used here.

[...]

Quicktime has never worked well.

On Mac ... not too bad, not too bad ...
.... depends additional plug-ins you offered to your QT ?

As a plugin, it actually has worse usability the flash player.

For sure.

And more, the Safari's error console :
TypeError: Result of expression
'document.getElementById('matrixSelect')' [null] is not an object.

(...)
Only one browser and it still doesn't work? That is really sad.

The console shows errors I'm not sure they are important
(Fx's console can too show a lot of errors that don't stop to work)

Apparently they do not check the error console for the *one* browser
they support and do not do any QA.
;-)

I see that their web development team is still experiencing the sorts of
very basic mistakes.

You can find in Apple's pages (section dev) a lot of given JS codes not
conform and +/- old (but working out of the "standards")

As far as the choice to use Prototype.js -- they probably learned
Prototype.js out of a need for solutions to help them to do their job
and, being incapable of solving such problems on their own,

.... Prototype.js ... the wound of web ...

 

[Richard Cornford]

... , it makes them look like complete idiots. Change
the UA string in Safari to Firefox 3.5.3 and you get the same
message.

<snip>

There is no need to change the UA string in Safari. I haven't (and
don't actually know how to, never having been bothered to look into
it) and yet:-

<URL: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/cornford/sillyApple.gif >

- the same message shows in Safari. Obviously what they should have
said in that context was that a more up-to-date version of Safari was
necessary, but that is not the message that was presented to me.
Clearly the thinking in relation to these demos hasn't considered all
(or apparently many of) the possibilities, suggesting minimal web
authoring experience on the part of its creators, which in tern
explains the pedestrian code authoring in the demos.

Richard.

 

[David Mark]

Because most of this stuff currently only works in Safari: YES, Safari
is the leader, whether you like it or not.

In terms of what exactly? Proprietary rounded corners?

As usual, you're able to read but not to comprehend.



Because they *are* ahead.

What game? What's the score?

Browser makers are obligated to prepend their brand name in front of
any proprietary CSS extensions. When/if their proprietary extensions
ever make it into a w3 standard, then the prefix will be removed. E.g.
Mozillas have their own moz-border too.

I presume you meant something else (-moz-border-radius?)

Now that it's a w3 standard
(not yet, but almost there),

Why not stop there?

you can type just border-radius, but only
a few browsers (and not all safaris) will recognize it in the
standards-compliant prefix-less way.

I figured you wouldn't. BTW, IE9's preview handles border-
radius. So what?

And, for many of Apple's proposed-as-a-standard extensions there are
no equivalences yet: CSS 2d transitions, CSS 2d animations, CSS 3d
transitions, CSS 3d animations, etc.

Opera has had CSS transitions for a while. Chrome even longer.

Also, no other browser but Safari is currently able to play h264
<video> nor AAV <audio>, nor 3d webGL content, nor... etc.

So what? No other browser but IE can play audio with a BGSOUND
element.

Yes they can, because they're on the w3 table for standardization in/
as HTML5.

On the table?