HTML and CSS border style wizard

Discussion in 'HTML' started by humbads, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. humbads

    humbads Guest

    All new, totally revamped HTML and CSS border style wizard is available
    at:

    http://www.somacon.com/blog/page41.php

    Ever wondered what different border-collapse or border-spacing settings
    do? Now you can see it live. Also, for advanced coders, you can view
    source to see the implementation of REAL radio buttons that make the
    wizard work.

    This was my first time dynamically changing styles by changing the
    class name of an element, or by redefining a class style by its
    selector. In can imagine doing some really slick things with these
    functions.

    Your feedback is welcome.
     
    humbads, Mar 21, 2005
    #1
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  2. humbads

    A Hess Guest

    humbads wrote:
    > All new, totally revamped HTML and CSS border style wizard is available
    > at:
    >
    > http://www.somacon.com/blog/page41.php
    >
    >
    > Your feedback is welcome.
    >



    Quote:

    "You'll also be able to see the fancy effects (rounded edges, hover
    effects) in this web page that you are missing out on.

    If you happen to visit a site that doesn't work with Firefox but only
    with IE, then complain to the site operator that their site is not
    standards-compliant"

    End quote


    In one sentence you tell visitors that with Firefox you can see some
    neat Firefox exclusive features. In the very next sentence you tell
    visitors to complain to the webmaster of sites that feature IE exclusive
    features. Now, I LOVE Fire fox as much as anyone, but this hipocrisy
    isn't the most appropriate way to spread the word.
     
    A Hess, Mar 21, 2005
    #2
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  3. humbads

    humbads Guest

    You didn't read the How it works section:

    Quote:
    Best of all, this wizard is cross-browser compatible with Firefox,
    Netscape, Internet Explorer, and other modern browsers.
    ....
    There are large number of Netscape extensions like this one that allow
    you to create slick effects, and they are fully backward-compatible
    with older browsers like IE.
    End Quote

    Of course, there's a big difference between not having special
    graphical effects in other browsers, and not being able to use the site
    at all. The latter is the despicable habit of many IE-only developers.
     
    humbads, Mar 21, 2005
    #3
  4. humbads

    dorayme Guest

    > From: "humbads" <>
    > Organization: http://groups.google.com
    > Newsgroups: alt.html
    > Date: 20 Mar 2005 19:43:25 -0800
    > Subject: HTML and CSS border style wizard
    >
    > All new, totally revamped HTML and CSS border style wizard is available
    > at:
    >
    > http://www.somacon.com/blog/page41.php
    >
    > Ever wondered what different border-collapse or border-spacing settings
    > do? Now you can see it live. Also, for advanced coders, you can view
    > source to see the implementation of REAL radio buttons that make the
    > wizard work.
    >
    > This was my first time dynamically changing styles by changing the
    > class name of an element, or by redefining a class style by its
    > selector. In can imagine doing some really slick things with these
    > functions.
    >
    > Your feedback is welcome.
    >



    This looks very interesting and potentially useful, well done. Does not work
    in IE 5.1.6 for mac at all, not even does the hand appear over the buttons.
    But a treat in my Mozilla 1.3. Anyone seen something like this that contains
    more or less *only* the well supported mechanisms across most modern
    browsers (the things that are truly practical)?

    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 21, 2005
    #4
  5. humbads

    humbads Guest

    Thanks for your comments. What one considers "well-supported" depends
    on context, and is continuously changing. For example, the last
    revision of the wizard didn't include the border-spacing CSS2 property.
    But now that non-IE browsers are 1/3 of my site's traffic and IE7 is
    due within a year, I was able to start considering it seriously.
     
    humbads, Mar 22, 2005
    #5
  6. humbads

    kchayka Guest

    humbads wrote:
    >
    > But now that non-IE browsers are 1/3 of my site's traffic and IE7 is
    > due within a year, I was able to start considering it seriously.


    FYI, if you expect the upcoming release of IE to have any major CSS
    improvements, you're probably going to be disappointed. MS has already
    made it pretty clear they have no intention of beefing up CSS standards
    support any time soon.

    --
    Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
    Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
     
    kchayka, Mar 22, 2005
    #6
  7. humbads

    humbads Guest

    I don't particularly like MS, but you can't bash them without backing
    up your claims.

    >From Chris Wilson's Blog - IE program manager

    http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/09/391362.aspx

    "Additionally, with every subsequent major release of IE, we have
    expanded and improved our implementation of web standards, particularly
    CSS and HTML. When we shipped IE 6.0, we finally fully supported CSS
    1, and had some pieces of CSS2 implemented as well. Since IE 6.0
    shipped, we have focused on one of our other key problems - enhancing
    the security of the Internet Explorer platform. This has taken
    tremendous effort on our part, and was - IS - an important place
    for us to focus - but it will not be our only area of improvement in
    our engine. We know we have a lot more work to do in addressing our
    consistency issues with CSS and furthering our coverage of these
    standards. Expect to see more detail on our plans in IE7 in the
    future.", March 09, 2005

    >From this, I suspect IE7 will implement all, or at least a good

    portion, of CSS2.
     
    humbads, Mar 25, 2005
    #7
  8. in alt.html, humbads wrote:
    > I don't particularly like MS, but you can't bash them without backing
    > up your claims.
    >
    > >From Chris Wilson's Blog - IE program manager

    > http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/09/391362.aspx
    >
    > "Additionally, with every subsequent major release of IE, we have
    > expanded and improved our implementation of web standards, particularly
    > CSS and HTML.


    Sure, but they have made it in way that is harmful.

    > When we shipped IE 6.0, we finally fully supported CSS 1,


    Well, IE6 breaks CSS1. Floats and containers issue, collapsing margins,
    for example. And most importantly: future proof parsing.

    > and had some pieces of CSS2 implemented as well. Since IE 6.0
    > shipped, we have focused on one of our other key problems - enhancing
    > the security of the Internet Explorer platform.


    Yes, that is key issue - but only reason is that the security was
    inexistent. IE2 was last secure version... And it actually breaks CSS and
    HTML standard much less than IE3-IE6. In care of IE3 and IE4, no support
    for CSS would have been better than the very broken one.

    > We know we have a lot more work to do in addressing our
    > consistency issues with CSS and furthering our coverage of these
    > standards.


    Talk, talk, but we have heard MS bullshit before.

    > Expect to see more detail on our plans in IE7 in the
    > future.", March 09, 2005
    >
    > >From this, I suspect IE7 will implement all, or at least a good

    > portion, of CSS2.


    From that, I suspect they might implement something. But why would you
    think so? It isn't exactly usual that MS keeps what it promises. (which
    version of OS was not late? Which one was secure?)


    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
    Utrecht, NL.
     
    Lauri Raittila, Mar 25, 2005
    #8
  9. humbads

    kchayka Guest

    humbads wrote:
    > I don't particularly like MS, but you can't bash them without backing
    > up your claims.


    I wasn't intending to "bash" MS, just stating some facts. Several
    articles have been published in the last few months stating MS isn't
    keen on beefing up their standards support much. Their rationale is that
    a huge number of sites will stop working if IE starts implementing
    proper standards and protocols.

    >>From Chris Wilson's Blog - IE program manager

    > http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/09/391362.aspx
    >
    > "Additionally, with every subsequent major release of IE, we have
    > expanded and improved our implementation of web standards, particularly
    > CSS and HTML."


    If you really believe they've done a good job at this, then it doesn't
    surprise me you are optimistic about the next release. The only thing
    they really did in IE6 was fix the box model. Otherwise, it's standards
    support has changed very little since IE 5.0, 7 years ago.

    >>From this, I suspect IE7 will implement all, or at least a good

    > portion, of CSS2.


    I'll believe it when I see it. I'm guessing we'll see very little
    improvement here, more just feature enhancements and security fixes.

    --
    Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
    Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
     
    kchayka, Mar 25, 2005
    #9
  10. humbads

    humbads Guest

    > Their rationale is that a huge number of sites will stop working if
    IE starts implementing proper standards and protocols.

    I can vouch for that. I opened a support case with Microsoft regarding
    a PDF over SSL bug. It isn't resolved yet, but the current status is
    that they can't fix it because it would break other applications.

    Microsoft is acting rationally. If 90% of web surfers use IE, and many
    applications would break by making IE more standards-compliant, then
    there is no reason to fix IE.

    However, if Microsoft is going to leave IE broken, then we as
    developers should push as hard as we can to get people to use Firefox,
    Opera, and any browser that supports the standards. That's the only
    way to change the equation and force Microsoft's hand.
     
    humbads, Mar 26, 2005
    #10
  11. humbads

    Toby Inkster Guest

    humbads wrote:

    > Microsoft is acting rationally. If 90% of web surfers use IE, and many
    > applications would break by making IE more standards-compliant, then
    > there is no reason to fix IE.


    They fixed the box model without breaking existing websites, simply by
    introducing Quirks Mode and Standards Mode.

    The natural solution to their current conundrum would be to add
    improvements to Standards Mode, but leave Quirks Mode as is.

    That said, some improvements could be introduced to both modes without
    much fear of breaking anything -- for example, full PNG support, support
    for the application/xhtml+xml MIME type, and support for CSS
    position:fixed.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Mar 26, 2005
    #11
  12. humbads

    accooper Guest

    But, you cannot cut and paste just parts of the code. Only the whole code.

    --
    Andrew C. Cooper
    www.wordforlife.com/cmhm
    Check Out Our New Free Christian
    Music Downloads At
    www.wordforlife.com
    "humbads" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > All new, totally revamped HTML and CSS border style wizard is available
    > at:
    >
    > http://www.somacon.com/blog/page41.php
    >
    > Ever wondered what different border-collapse or border-spacing settings
    > do? Now you can see it live. Also, for advanced coders, you can view
    > source to see the implementation of REAL radio buttons that make the
    > wizard work.
    >
    > This was my first time dynamically changing styles by changing the
    > class name of an element, or by redefining a class style by its
    > selector. In can imagine doing some really slick things with these
    > functions.
    >
    > Your feedback is welcome.
    >
     
    accooper, Mar 26, 2005
    #12
  13. humbads

    accooper Guest

    Ok, I have tried and tried to get this to work. I use stand alone called
    ccss sheets. How can I use this to do that? I want to add the generated
    code to a called style sheet. What must I do to get this to work. Other
    than that. The generator has potential.

    --
    Andrew C. Cooper
    www.wordforlife.com/cmhm
    Check Out Our New Free Christian
    Music Downloads At
    www.wordforlife.com
    "humbads" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > All new, totally revamped HTML and CSS border style wizard is available
    > at:
    >
    > http://www.somacon.com/blog/page41.php
    >
    > Ever wondered what different border-collapse or border-spacing settings
    > do? Now you can see it live. Also, for advanced coders, you can view
    > source to see the implementation of REAL radio buttons that make the
    > wizard work.
    >
    > This was my first time dynamically changing styles by changing the
    > class name of an element, or by redefining a class style by its
    > selector. In can imagine doing some really slick things with these
    > functions.
    >
    > Your feedback is welcome.
    >
     
    accooper, Mar 26, 2005
    #13
  14. humbads

    kchayka Guest

    humbads wrote:
    >
    > Microsoft is acting rationally. If 90% of web surfers use IE, and many
    > applications would break by making IE more standards-compliant, then
    > there is no reason to fix IE.


    And thus MS will continue to hold back progress where web development is
    concerned, CSS in particular. They'll just keep going forward with their
    proprietary extensions, which benefit no one except MS in the end. :(

    It may be capitalism, but it ain't right. And you wonder why so many
    people bash MS...

    --
    Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
    Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
     
    kchayka, Mar 26, 2005
    #14
  15. humbads

    humbads Guest

    humbads, Mar 26, 2005
    #15
  16. humbads

    accooper Guest

    I am kinda familiar, but I would like to use the code to make stand alone
    css files.


    --
    Andrew C. Cooper
    www.wordforlife.com/cmhm
    Check Out Our New Free Christian
    Music Downloads At
    www.wordforlife.com
    "humbads" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ok, I fixed the code box you can select any part of it. You might want
    > to try WDG's CSS Guide if you're unfamiliar with CSS.
    >
    > http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/
    >
     
    accooper, Mar 27, 2005
    #16
  17. humbads

    humbads Guest

    humbads, Mar 27, 2005
    #17
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