HTML could use some Diagram Support for software enginering/the future ?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Skybuck Flying, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. Hello,

    I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.

    It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
    Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
    tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
    code diagrams ;)

    Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
    together via the web more easily and better ! ;)

    (Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Mar 27, 2010
    #1
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  2. Re: HTML could use some Diagram Support for software enginering/thefuture ?

    Skybuck Flying wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.
    >
    > It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
    > Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
    > tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
    > code diagrams ;)
    >
    > Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
    > together via the web more easily and better ! ;)
    >
    > (Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))
    >



    You can will XHTML with SVG, but IE does not support it.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Mar 27, 2010
    #2
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  3. Skybuck Flying

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Re: HTML could use some Diagram Support for software enginering/thefuture ?

    On Mar 27, 1:06 am, "Skybuck Flying" <>
    wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.
    >
    > It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
    > Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
    > tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
    > code diagrams ;)
    >
    > Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
    > together via the web more easily and better ! ;)
    >
    > (Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))


    The easy way to do graphic design is to use the GD2 extension to php
    which can easily be activated on the server if the server is not
    ancient. I have used this function to create elaborate images with up
    to 24 buttons for image maps etc. The beauty of this method is that if
    you get it working on the server, you do not have to worry about what
    browser a viewer might be using. You can use functions such as
    imagearc, imageellipse, imagefilledpolygon, and over 90 other
    functions.
     
    cwdjrxyz, Mar 27, 2010
    #3
  4. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Skybuck Flying"
    <> writing in
    news:62298$4bada03f$d53371df$1.nb.home.nl:

    > Hello,
    >
    > I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.
    >
    > It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of
    > Diagram Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes,
    > tables, tables in tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors,
    > etc, maybe even pseudo code diagrams ;)
    >
    > Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
    > together via the web more easily and better ! ;)
    >
    > (Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))
    >
    > Bye,
    > Skybuck.
    >
    >
    >
    >


    HTML is a Markup language, used for marking up text. If you want to add
    presentation, use CSS. What you are looking for is SVG.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, Mar 27, 2010
    #4
  5. Skybuck Flying

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Re: HTML could use some Diagram Support for software enginering/thefuture ?

    On Mar 27, 10:16 am, cwdjrxyz <> wrote:
    > On Mar 27, 1:06 am, "Skybuck Flying" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Hello,

    >
    > > I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.

    >
    > > It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
    > > Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
    > > tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
    > > code diagrams ;)

    >
    > > Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
    > > together via the web more easily and better ! ;)

    >
    > > (Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))

    >
    > The easy way to do graphic design is to use the GD2 extension to php
    > which can easily be activated on the server if the server is not
    > ancient. I have used this function to create elaborate images with up
    > to 24 buttons for image maps etc. The beauty of this method is that if
    > you get it working on the server,  you do not have to worry about what
    > browser a viewer might be using. You can use functions such as
    > imagearc, imageellipse, imagefilledpolygon, and over 90 other
    > functions.


    Two examples of images created with GD2 are given below. You can
    compute the image on the server every time the page is called up, or
    you can download the image to your computer in various formats as was
    done here.

    http://www.cwdjr.net/audio2/playersbutton2.png

    http://www.cwdjr.net/audio4/imapaudioone.png

    Also you can create images using the javascript math functions. Since
    some of these calculations take considerable computing resources and
    some computers may have javascript turned off, there often is an
    advantage in capturing the generated image as a gif, jpg, or png and
    using it rather than computing the image every time the page is
    called. This method can be difficult unless you know javascript well
    and can handle analytical geometry. Even if you know these subjects
    well, the time to write and test the scripts sometimes is long. Three
    old examples using javascript are given below, and you will be able to
    right click and view the source code in addition to viewing the
    generated image.

    http://www.cwdjr.net/geometricDraw/tilelayer.html

    http://www.cwdjr.net/geometricDraw/epicycloid_color_gradient.html

    http://www.cwdjr.net/geometricDraw/pentagon_draw.html
     
    cwdjrxyz, Mar 27, 2010
    #5
  6. Skybuck Flying

    C A Upsdell Guest

    Re: HTML could use some Diagram Support for software enginering/thefuture ?

    On 2010-03-27 2:06, Skybuck Flying wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.
    >
    > It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
    > Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
    > tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
    > code diagrams ;)
    >
    > Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
    > together via the web more easily and better ! ;)
    >
    > (Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))


    A problem with this is that the diagrams you are speaking of tend to
    need to be edited, often using specialized programs, especially during
    the software design process: conventional web page editors are not up
    to the task. What you want would probably only be viable if the tools
    used to create the diagrams had options to export the diagrams to a form
    suitable for web pages.
     
    C A Upsdell, Mar 27, 2010
    #6
  7. Skybuck Flying

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Re: HTML could use some Diagram Support for software enginering/thefuture ?

    On Mar 27, 1:06 am, "Skybuck Flying" <>
    wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.
    >
    > It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
    > Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
    > tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
    > code diagrams ;)
    >
    > Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
    > together via the web more easily and better ! ;)
    >
    > (Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))


    Sorry I am late, but I could not post to alt.html for about 2 days.

    On Mar 25, 11:55 pm, JSoul <> wrote:
    > On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:32:40 -0400, C A Upsdell
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > >On 2010-03-25 23:00, JSoul wrote:
    > >> For some reason the front page of this site works perfectly in IE,
    > >> Firefox and Chrome but Safari renders the two login buttons so far to
    > >> the right side that you have to scroll the horizontal scroll to see
    > >> them. It makes the page lik 2000 pixels wide. I can't seem to figure
    > >> it out but I think the popup login box when you click the "members"
    > >> button is fooling only safari. Here's the URL and many thanks to
    > >> anyone who can figure out this puzzle!

    >
    > >>http://www.boldplan.com/s/tiny/nQCB9Y

    >
    > >Maybe if you fixed the HTML error and the 7 CSS3 errors, your problem
    > >might disappear.

    >
    > I fixed all the css errors but one which (a) has nothing to do with
    > the home page elements, and (b) might be some issue with the w3
    > validator. The "word-wrap" element is properly called in CSS3
    > according to this:
    >
    > http://www.css3.com/css-word-wrap/
    >
    > I put back the word wrap properties (four times) as removing made no
    > difference and it seems to be valid.
    >
    > Regarding the html error, I'm not sure why it is invalid. Removing
    > that too did not make any difference. The "error"is for something
    > completely unrelated (the logo).
    >
    > Even with validation, Safari is pushing off those login buttons way to
    > the right for a reason I cannot explain.


    Your page seems to be changing, likely because you are working on it.
    I got a version that had several validation errors. Some image tags
    were not properly self-closed for xhtml, and this seemed to cause some
    confusion with <a ...> and </a> when the img tag was between them.
    Also you mentioned that the page worked as intended on IE. That alone
    tells me the page is not being served as xhtml, since IE will not work
    on xhtml that is properly served. The w3c validator will validate a
    page as xhtml, if asked, no matter how it is served. However if you
    select verboise output, the validator tells you that your page is
    being served as ordinary html which uses text/html. To serve it as
    xhtml, you have to associate something other than .html , such
    as .xhtml, with the mime type application/xhtml+xml on the server.
    Then if you serve the page properly as something.xhtml you will find
    IE browsers will not work. To get them to work you have to use header
    exchange or something else that will determine if the browser will
    accept true xhtml served properly. Then the page is converted to html,
    such as 4.01 strict for IE, for example. This can be done using some
    rather complicated php in the header exchange. Since you are serving
    the page as html, writing the code in xhtml serves no purpose unless
    you intend to set up your server to serve true xhtml with the proper
    mime type for it. And if you want IE browsers to see the page, you
    will have to do something to serve html for them.

    Since your page is only being served as html (validate using "more
    options" and select verbose output - you find the mime type text/html
    is being used), the page is only being parsed as html when you call
    the page. However if you serve as true xhtml with mime type
    application/xhtml+xml, the page will be parsed as xml. This varies a
    bit for different browsers, but even a single error often will bring
    up an error report rather than a view of the page. The xml parsers are
    about as strict as a mother superior in a convent in the 1800s.

    If you properly served your page as true xhtml, it is likely that no
    browser would work as the page now stands. The likely outcome is that,
    when the xml parser detects the first xml error, it would output an
    xml error message rather than a view of the page.

    The w3c validators have been known to make an error, but this usually
    is corrected soon. In my case I usually find the error is mine. In
    any case, you need to try to get rid of all html and css errors first.
    Since your page is fairly long, I and likely some others do not have
    the time to check the complete page in minute detail.
     
    cwdjrxyz, Mar 27, 2010
    #7
  8. Skybuck Flying

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    Re: HTML could use some Diagram Support for software enginering/thefuture ?

    On Mar 27, 1:43 pm, cwdjrxyz <> wrote:
    Disregard my last post. It got posted in the wrong thread and has
    nothing to do with this thread.
     
    cwdjrxyz, Mar 27, 2010
    #8
  9. Skybuck Flying

    Cafetorium Guest

    Re: HTML could use some Diagram Support for software enginering/thefuture ?

    On Mar 27, 7:06 am, "Skybuck Flying" <>
    wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.
    >


    When I design software for sonar systems, I don't choose to do it in
    COBOL.
    When I hang a picture, I don't choose a saw to put the nail in the
    wall.
    When I cut the grass in my garden, I don't choose to use nail-
    clippers.

    If HTML is lacking for "software enginering(sic)", then doesn't it
    tell you that it isn't designed for the job?

    As it happens, UML software such as Rational Rose will export to HTML
    - it generates GIF images for the diagrams.
    True you have to regenerate them rather than edit them, but it serves
    a purpose.

    Phil
     
    Cafetorium, Mar 30, 2010
    #9
  10. And how shall one edit the gifs once they are downloaded by others ? ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck :)
     
    Skybuck Flying, Mar 30, 2010
    #10
  11. In alt.comp.lang.borland-delphi message <holj6p$uhg$-
    september.org>, Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:36:50, C A Upsdell
    <> posted:
    >On 2010-03-27 2:06, Skybuck Flying wrote:


    >> I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.


    Mere ignorance on his part - and on the part of respondents who have not
    noticed that.


    >> It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
    >> Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
    >> tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
    >> code diagrams ;)
    >>
    >> Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
    >> together via the web more easily and better ! ;)
    >>
    >> (Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))

    >
    >A problem with this is that the diagrams you are speaking of tend to
    >need to be edited, often using specialized programs, especially during
    >the software design process: conventional web page editors are not up
    >to the task. What you want would probably only be viable if the tools
    >used to create the diagrams had options to export the diagrams to a
    >form
    >suitable for web pages.




    Draft standard HTML 5, and current versions of Firefox, Opera, Safari,
    and Chrome have the <canvas> element.

    One can draw diagrams on it with JavaScript code (in a PostScript-like
    manner), one can get the result as a PNG string, one can load the PNG in
    an IMG, and (manually) "Save As" that to disc.

    Publish the code, and others can modify the figure; publish the saved
    figure, and they can just admire it.

    For a demo, see <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/$lag-pts.htm>; set
    "Together" and some checkboxes, and press "Run".

    Then see <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/js-grphx.htm>. For actual use,
    take (but do not republish) a copy of the page and its include file.
    Full usage direct from Web should not be permanently supported.

    However, what browsers really need is

    <script type="Text/pascal"> and <script type="Text/delphi">.

    --
    (c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 IE 7.
    Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
    MiniTrue is good for viewing/searching/altering files, at a DOS / CMD prompt;
    free, DOS/Win/UNIX, new via <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/pc-links.htm>.
     
    Dr J R Stockton, May 3, 2010
    #11
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