HTML guide for newbies.

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Inkspot, Nov 30, 2004.

  1. Inkspot

    Inkspot Guest

    Can anyone suggest a good website (or book) for someone new to the
    webmaster game?

    I've been trying to get my lists to output justified text, but haven't
    had much luck. Tried google-searching for the answer, but each site
    that I went to provided no help. Saw a <ul align="justify"> suggestion,
    but it didn't work :(

    I'm picking things up as I go along, sometimes with much head-ache; it
    would be far easier to have a one-stop spot to get detailed answers.
     
    Inkspot, Nov 30, 2004
    #1
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  2. Inkspot

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Previously in alt.html, Inkspot <> said:

    > Can anyone suggest a good website (or book) for someone new to the
    > webmaster game?


    http://www.w3.org/

    > I've been trying to get my lists to output justified text,


    Why?

    > but haven't had much luck.


    That is a presentation issue, therefore handled with CSS.
    http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#alignment-prop

    > Tried google-searching for the answer, but each site
    > that I went to provided no help. Saw a <ul align="justify"> suggestion,
    > but it didn't work :(


    Wherever you found that, don't go there again.

    > I'm picking things up as I go along, sometimes with much head-ache; it
    > would be far easier to have a one-stop spot to get detailed answers.


    news://alt.html :)

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
     
    Mark Parnell, Nov 30, 2004
    #2
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  3. Inkspot wrote:

    > Can anyone suggest a good website (or book) for someone new to the
    > webmaster game?
    >
    > I've been trying to get my lists to output justified text, but haven't
    > had much luck. Tried google-searching for the answer, but each site
    > that I went to provided no help. Saw a <ul align="justify"> suggestion,
    > but it didn't work :(
    >
    > I'm picking things up as I go along, sometimes with much head-ache; it
    > would be far easier to have a one-stop spot to get detailed answers.


    Although this source was criticised by alt.html before, I choose to
    recommend it again:

    http://werbach.com/barebones/

    I started using it many years ago and I still use it. It's concise and it
    includes almost all the information that you need.

    Roy

    --
    Roy Schestowitz
    http://schestowitz.com
     
    Roy Schestowitz, Nov 30, 2004
    #3
  4. Inkspot

    rf Guest

    Roy Schestowitz opined.

    > Although this source was criticised by alt.html before, I choose to
    > recommend it again:
    >
    > http://werbach.com/barebones/


    Oh my.

    <quote>
    The Bare Bones Guide to HTML lists every official HTML tag in common usage,
    </quote>

    Element. It is HTML Element. Not tag.

    This alone indicates that whoever wrote this can not even get the
    nomenclature correct. What other errors are there in there?

    <quote>
    plus Netscape and Microsoft extensions.
    </quote>

    Hmmm. It gets worse. These days we try to write web pages that work on every
    browser, not specifically for just one or two, to the exclusion of the
    others.

    It's also interesting that this site makes no mention at all of the
    technology the OP acually requires, that is CSS.

    > I started using it many years ago and I still use it. It's concise and it
    > includes almost all the information that you need.


    Plus all of the crap that was in use last century.

    I too will make a recommendation: You, and the OP, would be far better off
    going to W3C and reading the specifications, or at least using something
    that was written in the current era.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Nov 30, 2004
    #4
  5. Inkspot wrote:
    > Can anyone suggest a good website (or book) for someone new to the
    > webmaster game?
    >
    > I've been trying to get my lists to output justified text, but haven't
    > had much luck. Tried google-searching for the answer, but each site
    > that I went to provided no help. Saw a <ul align="justify"> suggestion,
    > but it didn't work :(
    >
    > I'm picking things up as I go along, sometimes with much head-ache; it
    > would be far easier to have a one-stop spot to get detailed answers.


    w3schools.com is also pretty good for beginners

    --
    A person is smart; people are dumb panicky dangerous animals and you
    know it.

    - MIB -
     
    John Cserkuti, Nov 30, 2004
    #5
  6. Inkspot

    Neal Guest

    On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 03:07:22 GMT, rf <rf@.invalid> wrote:

    > Roy Schestowitz opined.
    >
    >> Although this source was criticised by alt.html before, I choose to
    >> recommend it again:
    >>
    >> http://werbach.com/barebones/

    >
    > Oh my.
    >
    > <quote>
    > The Bare Bones Guide to HTML lists every official HTML tag in common
    > usage,
    > </quote>
    >
    > Element. It is HTML Element. Not tag.


    So <h1> is not a tag?
     
    Neal, Nov 30, 2004
    #6
  7. Inkspot

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Previously in alt.html, Roy Schestowitz <>
    said:

    > http://werbach.com/barebones/


    I haven't seen that site before. It's not as bad as some of the others
    around, but I still wouldn't even consider recommending it. It's very
    outdated - no mention of CSS at all, and it's based on HTML4.0, which
    was superseded by HTML4.01 5 years ago. In fact, the site itself hasn't
    been updated in nearly 6 years. On the Internet that's a lifetime (or
    several). Not a resource to be used now.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
     
    Mark Parnell, Nov 30, 2004
    #7
  8. In article <>, Neal
    () dropped a +5 bundle of words...

    > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 03:07:22 GMT, rf <rf@.invalid> wrote:
    >
    > > Roy Schestowitz opined.
    > >
    > >> Although this source was criticised by alt.html before, I choose to
    > >> recommend it again:
    > >>
    > >> http://werbach.com/barebones/

    > >
    > > Oh my.
    > >
    > > <quote>
    > > The Bare Bones Guide to HTML lists every official HTML tag in common
    > > usage,
    > > </quote>
    > >
    > > Element. It is HTML Element. Not tag.

    >
    > So <h1> is not a tag?


    No. The correct term is element.

    I don't wig out if people call it tag. I use tag so who am I to crack
    down on people for doing it?

    But the proper term is element.

    --
    Starshine Moonbeam
    mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
    sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
     
    Starshine Moonbeam, Nov 30, 2004
    #8
  9. Inkspot

    rf Guest

    Neal
    > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 03:07:22 GMT, rf <rf@.invalid> wrote:
    >
    > > Roy Schestowitz opined.
    > >
    > >> Although this source was criticised by alt.html before, I choose to
    > >> recommend it again:
    > >>
    > >> http://werbach.com/barebones/

    > >
    > > Oh my.
    > >
    > > <quote>
    > > The Bare Bones Guide to HTML lists every official HTML tag in common
    > > usage,
    > > </quote>
    > >
    > > Element. It is HTML Element. Not tag.

    >
    > So <h1> is not a tag?


    <h1> is a tag. It is the opening tag for the h1 element. The h1 element also
    has some content and a closing tag.

    The middle bit is very important. The content is not some content on the
    "page" with <h1> and </h1>tags wrapped around it. It is the content of the
    h1 element.

    Further the h1 element is part of the content of (probably) the body element
    which is part of the content of the html element which *is* for all intents
    and purposes the page. The "page" has no plain text content. It only has
    other elements as content.

    When talking about the "contents" of an HTML page we talk about the elements
    that make up that page, not the tags, which are a part of the elements.

    An HTML tutorial should be talking about elements and how they interact. It
    should not have as its major emphasis, and in its opening paragraph, a
    discussion of tags. That bit comes when we discuss what an element is.

    This confusion (coupled with the misconception that tags are actually
    "commands") leads to things like:

    <b>bold<i>bold italic</b>italic</i>

    This is of course wrong but it "does" mean something if you think about
    tags, or "commands" It does not make any sense at all if you think about
    elements.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Nov 30, 2004
    #9
  10. Inkspot

    Neal Guest

    On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:01:14 -0600, Starshine Moonbeam
    <> wrote:

    >> So <h1> is not a tag?

    >
    > No. The correct term is element.
    >
    > I don't wig out if people call it tag. I use tag so who am I to crack
    > down on people for doing it?
    >
    > But the proper term is element.


    So <h1> is an element???
     
    Neal, Nov 30, 2004
    #10
  11. In article <>, Neal
    () dropped a +5 bundle of words...

    > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:01:14 -0600, Starshine Moonbeam
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >> So <h1> is not a tag?

    > >
    > > No. The correct term is element.
    > >
    > > I don't wig out if people call it tag. I use tag so who am I to crack
    > > down on people for doing it?
    > >
    > > But the proper term is element.

    >
    > So <h1> is an element???


    Yes.


    --
    Starshine Moonbeam
    mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
    sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
     
    Starshine Moonbeam, Nov 30, 2004
    #11
  12. Inkspot

    CanLaw Guest

    Justified text is another mark of the amateur.
    You are not a designer or writer just because you cobble a little html together
    anymore than a bricklayer is architect.

    >> I've been trying to get my lists to output justified text, but haven't
    >> had much luck. Tried google-searching for the answer, but each site
    >> that I went to provided no help. Saw a <ul align="justify"> suggestion,
    >> but it didn't work :(
    >>
    >> I'm picking things up as I go along, sometimes with much head-ache; it
    >> would be far easier to have a one-stop spot to get detailed answers.


    Canadian Legal Help, Articles, Legal Tips, Lawyer Referral Service
    and related support for anyone needing Canadian legal assistance in any area..
    http://www.canlaw.com (a division of Kirwood Inc.)
    x-no-archive:yes

     
    CanLaw, Nov 30, 2004
    #12
  13. Inkspot

    rf Guest

    Starshine Moonbeam wrote:
    > In article <>, Neal
    > () dropped a +5 bundle of words...
    >
    > >
    > > So <h1> is an element???

    >
    > Yes.


    No. <h1> is a tag.

    <h1>heading</h2> is an element, with an opening tag, some content, and a
    closing tag.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Nov 30, 2004
    #13
  14. Inkspot

    Neal Guest

    rf wrote:
    > Neal
    >> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 03:07:22 GMT, rf <rf@.invalid> wrote:
    >>> <quote>
    >>> The Bare Bones Guide to HTML lists every official HTML tag in common
    >>> usage,
    >>> </quote>
    >>>
    >>> Element. It is HTML Element. Not tag.

    >>
    >> So <h1> is not a tag?

    >
    > <h1> is a tag. It is the opening tag for the h1 element. The h1 element
    > also
    > has some content and a closing tag.


    So the element is delimited by a tag or pair of tags, no?

    > The middle bit is very important. The content is not some content on the
    > "page" with <h1> and </h1>tags wrapped around it. It is the content of
    > the
    > h1 element.


    Yes, the tag(s) plus the content (if not empty) comprise the element.

    > When talking about the "contents" of an HTML page we talk about the
    > elements
    > that make up that page, not the tags, which are a part of the elements.


    Indeed.

    > An HTML tutorial should be talking about elements and how they interact.
    > It
    > should not have as its major emphasis, and in its opening paragraph, a
    > discussion of tags. That bit comes when we discuss what an element is.


    Hmm. It would seem to me that using "tags" in a description would be
    better bait than "elements" considering "tag" is a term more people have
    heard of.

    Of course, I agree with you rf, but using the term 'tag" isn't cause
    enough to trash a site.

    > This confusion (coupled with the misconception that tags are actually
    > "commands")


    Well, that's a separate issue, isn't it?

    > leads to things like:
    >
    > <b>bold<i>bold italic</b>italic</i>
    >
    > This is of course wrong but it "does" mean something if you think about
    > tags, or "commands" It does not make any sense at all if you think about
    > elements.


    Well, it depends on how "tags" are taught.

    In my formative days, I thought of "tags" as on-off switches. This is
    probably prevalent, and certainly wrong. After I learned more, I realized
    that "tags" had to be nested properly, and I began learning the rules of
    nesting.

    Later on I learned of "elements". I don't regret it, and I agree that
    speaking of "tag" only in a paragraph about "elements" s better. But don't
    be deluded into thinking that "tag"-related understanding necessarily
    equates to poor nesting.

    Devil's Advocate role aside, I still think that "tags" is only a
    four-letter word in count only. And that any good primer should mention
    "element" nore than "tag", which you did not indicate the site in
    questiuon failed to do.
     
    Neal, Nov 30, 2004
    #14
  15. Inkspot

    Neal Guest

    Starshine Moonbeam wrote:
    > Neal wrote:
    >> So <h1> is an element???

    > Yes.


    I think you'll find that

    <h1>Teddy Grahm Memories</h1>

    is an element, while

    <h1>

    is a tag.
     
    Neal, Nov 30, 2004
    #15
  16. Inkspot wrote:
    > Can anyone suggest a good website (or book) for someone new to the
    > webmaster game?
    >
    > I've been trying to get my lists to output justified text, but haven't
    > had much luck. Tried google-searching for the answer, but each site
    > that I went to provided no help. Saw a <ul align="justify"> suggestion,
    > but it didn't work :(
    >
    > I'm picking things up as I go along, sometimes with much head-ache; it
    > would be far easier to have a one-stop spot to get detailed answers.


    An oldie, but goodie:
    http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/

    A book you want to get: Dynamic HTML - The Definitive Reference 2ed
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596003161/somacon-20

    Neither are for total newbies. If you are a total newbie, I suggest:
    http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/General/Internet/WWW/HTMLPrimer.html

    Your question indicates non-newbieness. What will increase your skill
    is making test pages and trying them on different browsers. Then, to
    reach guru status, get 100% from the free validators at:

    HTML: http://validator.w3.org/
    CSS: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

    To get justified text in a list, one way is:

    <style type="text/css">
    UL { text-align:justify; }
    </style>
    <ul>
    <li>This text should be justified.
    <li>As should this text be justified.
    </ul>
     
    Shailesh Humbad, Nov 30, 2004
    #16
  17. In article <>, Neal
    () dropped a +5 bundle of words...

    > Starshine Moonbeam wrote:
    > > Neal wrote:
    > >> So <h1> is an element???

    > > Yes.

    >
    > I think you'll find that
    >
    > <h1>Teddy Grahm Memories</h1>
    >
    > is an element, while
    >
    > <h1>
    >
    > is a tag.


    Fair enough. I just thought people used tag and element interchangably
    with element being right and tag for convienence. I didn't know there
    was an actual definition for tag. Whoops.



    --
    Starshine Moonbeam
    mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
    sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
     
    Starshine Moonbeam, Nov 30, 2004
    #17
  18. Inkspot

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Previously in alt.html, rf <rf@.invalid> said:

    > <h1>heading</h2> is an element


    Funny looking element. ;-)

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
     
    Mark Parnell, Nov 30, 2004
    #18
  19. Inkspot

    rf Guest

    "Mark Parnell" <> wrote in message
    news:lk9xx34bnzxv$...
    > Previously in alt.html, rf <rf@.invalid> said:
    >
    > > <h1>heading</h2> is an element

    >
    > Funny looking element. ;-)


    Yep. I haven't validated this post yet.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Nov 30, 2004
    #19
  20. Inkspot

    rf Guest

    Starshine Moonbeam
    >
    > Fair enough. I just thought people used tag and element interchangably
    > with element being right and tag for convienence. I didn't know there
    > was an actual definition for tag. Whoops.


    http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.2

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Nov 30, 2004
    #20
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