HTML-Windows question

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Alex, Nov 23, 2003.

  1. Alex

    Alex Guest

    How do you open a new window every time?

    The problem with opening a new window through TARGET="_FRONT" or
    TARGET="_BLANK", is that from your main page, you keep opening
    different pages in the same window.

    Say your main page is A, and you have several target="_front" links that
    open in new window B, then all the links on page A will open on page B.

    I want different links on page A to open on pages B, C, D, etc.

    What is the html code for this?

    Alex
    Alex, Nov 23, 2003
    #1
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  2. Alex

    Spartanicus Guest

    Spartanicus, Nov 23, 2003
    #2
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  3. Alex

    Steve R. Guest

    Spartanicus wrote in message http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html

    It's all very well quoting that page, but I strongly disagree with what the author is saying, for
    example ..
    He says "Follow a link, go back. Explore a search engine result, go back."

    If you follow a link maybe you get six or more pages down the line of the new link, then have to
    wait forever to *go *back* as each page has to reload, as frequently happens. They aren't always
    cached on the hard-drive.

    It's much easier simpler just to close the new window and you still have your refence page still
    there to open yet another link in a new window and so on.

    He goes on to say "This is incredibly confusing, even for me, and I've been using the web for 10
    years."

    LOL, what can you say !! Sounds like he is the dummy !!

    Steve :~(
    Steve R., Nov 23, 2003
    #3
  4. Alex

    Spartanicus Guest

    "Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >If you follow a link maybe you get six or more pages down the line of the new link, then have to
    >wait forever to *go *back* as each page has to reload, as frequently happens. They aren't always
    >cached on the hard-drive.
    >
    >It's much easier simpler just to close the new window and you still have your refence page still
    >there to open yet another link in a new window and so on.


    By expressing a strong preference for a certain method of handling
    windows you've proven my point: it's a user preference issue; different
    users; different preferences. Web pages should not attempt to force a
    certain way of window handling, this should be left to the user.

    Don't attempt to open new windows and everyone can use their own
    preference.

    --
    Spartanicus
    Spartanicus, Nov 23, 2003
    #4
  5. Alex

    Steve R. Guest

    Spartanicus wrote in message ...
    > Web pages should not attempt to force a
    > certain way of window handling, this should be left to the user.


    I can see your point, but in my experience very few *common* users (especially new ones) know how to
    *open* in a new window and sometimes even when you repeatedly tell them they still forget.

    I still think it's much simpler on a "Links" page to have all the links open in a new window.

    That way you can be sure that your visitor doesn't lose sight of your own original website, which
    you've fought hard to get him/her to visit in the first place :~)
    Steve R., Nov 23, 2003
    #5
  6. Alex

    Spartanicus Guest

    "Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >> Web pages should not attempt to force a
    >> certain way of window handling, this should be left to the user.

    >
    >I can see your point, but in my experience very few *common* users (especially new ones) know how to
    >*open* in a new window


    Have you considered that they may not want to?

    >and sometimes even when you repeatedly tell them they still forget.


    Trying to force your preferences onto others again? (I hope your not
    suggesting that you get site feedback from users asking how they should
    open new windows)

    >I still think it's much simpler on a "Links" page to have all the links open in a new window.


    Again: it's not about *you*. If you code a web site exclusively to your
    personal preferences then stick it on a CD and admire it as often as you
    like, placing it on the web indicates that it is to be used by *others*.

    >That way you can be sure that your visitor doesn't lose sight of your own original website


    What to display or not to display is another user issue that should not
    be interfered with.

    --
    Spartanicus
    Spartanicus, Nov 23, 2003
    #6
  7. Alex

    Kris Guest

    In article <Cq%vb.8523$>,
    "Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > Spartanicus wrote in message
    > http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html
    >
    > It's all very well quoting that page, but I strongly disagree with what the
    > author is saying, for
    > example ..
    > He says "Follow a link, go back. Explore a search engine result, go back."
    >
    > If you follow a link maybe you get six or more pages down the line of the new
    > link, then have to
    > wait forever to *go *back* as each page has to reload, as frequently happens.
    > They aren't always
    > cached on the hard-drive.


    Then you do it your way: right-click the link and choose to open the
    link in a new window/tab (or any way with similar result). Each can have
    it his or her way, the author does not decide for the visitor. That is
    the whole point.

    >
    > It's much easier simpler just to close the new window and you still have your
    > refence page still
    > there to open yet another link in a new window and so on.


    I open search results in separate tabs, that is my preference. But I
    would leave a website in the cold if it would attempt to force the
    author's preference on me.

    >
    > He goes on to say "This is incredibly confusing, even for me, and I've been
    > using the web for 10
    > years."
    >
    > LOL, what can you say !! Sounds like he is the dummy !!


    You have not surfed a lot, it sounds.

    --
    Kris
    erlands (nl)
    Kris, Nov 23, 2003
    #7
  8. Alex

    Kris Guest

    In article <xn0wb.8565$>,
    "Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > Spartanicus wrote in message ...
    > > Web pages should not attempt to force a
    > > certain way of window handling, this should be left to the user.

    >
    > I can see your point, but in my experience very few *common* users
    > (especially new ones) know how to
    > *open* in a new window and sometimes even when you repeatedly tell them they
    > still forget.


    Then imagine how confusing a sudden new window for them will be. If they
    don't have experience or know-how on how to use their browser, then
    surely any attempt of the author to control it for them is a dangerous
    thing.

    >
    > I still think it's much simpler on a "Links" page to have all the links open
    > in a new window.


    What your preference is is irrelevant. Mine as well.

    >
    > That way you can be sure that your visitor doesn't lose sight of your own
    > original website, which
    > you've fought hard to get him/her to visit in the first place :~)


    Not your business. The visitor clicks the link; the visitor wants to
    leave, not stay.

    --
    Kris
    erlands (nl)
    Kris, Nov 23, 2003
    #8
  9. Alex

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <fms0svsbf5apv39p5mm6t1vtldfs0ng3l5
    @news.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie>, says...
    > >How do you open a new window every time?

    > http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html


    "This is incredibly confusing, even for me, and I've been using the web
    for 10 years. In 2002, it's amazing that people still do this. Don't do
    this. Don't force links to open in new windows."

    What a line of horse shit.....

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, Nov 23, 2003
    #9
  10. Alex

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article
    <>,
    says...
    > >I can see your point, but in my experience very few *common* users (especially new ones) know how to
    > >*open* in a new window

    > Have you considered that they may not want to?


    I seriously doubt anyone but the people in this forum are anal enough to
    really give a damn either way.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, Nov 23, 2003
    #10
  11. Alex

    Steve Pugh Guest

    "Alex" <> wrote:

    >How do you open a new window every time?


    Right click > open in new window/tab/page
    Or
    Shift + Left Click
    Or
    whatever other methods your browser provides for you.

    From an author's point of view, it's best not to. Leave the choice up
    to the user.

    >The problem with opening a new window through TARGET="_FRONT"


    Not allowed. Only the four reserved values (_top, _blank, _parent,
    _self) of target are allowed to start with an udnerscore. Browsers may
    ignore that value, treat it as simply FRONT, or do something else
    entirely.

    http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/types.html#type-frame-target

    >or TARGET="_BLANK", is that from your main page, you keep opening
    >different pages in the same window.


    Not if you use target="_blank". That should create a new, nameless,
    window every time (assuming that the browser is capable of and allowed
    to create new windows).

    I didn't think it was case sensitive, maybe it is, Maybe it is in your
    browser. Maybe you didn't actually try to use _BLANK but always used
    _FRONT.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Nov 23, 2003
    #11
  12. Alex

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <4all.nl>,
    erlands says...
    > > I can see your point, but in my experience very few *common* users
    > > (especially new ones) know how to
    > > *open* in a new window and sometimes even when you repeatedly tell them they
    > > still forget.

    > Then imagine how confusing a sudden new window for them will be. If they
    > don't have experience or know-how on how to use their browser, then
    > surely any attempt of the author to control it for them is a dangerous
    > thing.


    Why yes, and several times I have sen users get lost in a revolving
    door..... Users are dumb, they are not retards.

    > > I still think it's much simpler on a "Links" page to have all the links open
    > > in a new window.

    >
    > What your preference is is irrelevant. Mine as well.


    That is one line of thinking, but here are others. One is that design
    does matter (which you blindly refuse to acknowledge but that is your
    right to be wrong)

    Guys, as much as you would like it to, one size does not fit all on the
    web. Just because you do not like the way something works, does not
    mean that it is the wrong way, only a different way.

    And what do you care? Remember the more crappy sites from the likes of
    people like me, will be driving the users to your sites..... (There was
    a hint of sarcasm in there)

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, Nov 23, 2003
    #12
  13. Alex

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <4all.nl>,
    erlands says...
    > Then you do it your way: right-click the link and choose to open the
    > link in a new window/tab (or any way with similar result). Each can have
    > it his or her way, the author does not decide for the visitor. That is
    > the whole point.


    No the point is that I WANT to open a new window. And it is perfectly
    ok to do so.

    > > He goes on to say "This is incredibly confusing, even for me, and I've been
    > > using the web for 10
    > > years."
    > > LOL, what can you say !! Sounds like he is the dummy !!

    > You have not surfed a lot, it sounds.


    No, it sounds like you are one of the rats following the piper...

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, Nov 23, 2003
    #13
  14. Alex

    Steve R. Guest

    Spartanicus wrote in message
    > Have you considered that they may not want to?


    New users don't know any difference, but pointing out that 'opening in a new window' still leaves
    the whole page of Search engine data in the background, is universally welcome by users as they
    don't have to keep hitting the 'back' button lots of times.

    One click on the 'close' button does the trick of getting back to the original page.

    > Trying to force your preferences onto others again?


    Not trying to *force* - people do forget - Don't you ever recall your early days on a PC?

    > placing it on the web indicates that it is to be used by *others*.


    Yep exactly, so the 'opening in a new window' is for the *benefit* of others, especially the newbies
    or infrequent users. *We* are all relative experts here so *we* know what to do, *they* don't so
    easily get lost if the new information replaces the original website they were browsing :~)

    > What to display or not to display is another user issue that should not
    > be interfered with.


    LOL !!

    Steve :~)
    Steve R., Nov 23, 2003
    #14
  15. Alex

    Alex Guest

    Alex, Nov 23, 2003
    #15
  16. Alex

    Steve R. Guest

    Kris wrote in message ...
    > Then imagine how confusing a sudden new window for them will be.


    'Sudden New Window' - what on earth are you talking about? The whole process of the www is based on
    'New Windows' - that's what they expect to see.

    > any attempt of the author to control it for them is a dangerous thing.


    'Dangerous' - what? as in heart-attack or what?

    > The visitor clicks the link; the visitor wants to leave, not stay.


    Ah - so you know all the answers now then !!

    Steve :~)
    Steve R., Nov 23, 2003
    #16
  17. Alex

    Alex Guest

    "Steve Pugh" <> schreef in bericht news:...
    > "Alex" <> wrote:
    >
    > >How do you open a new window every time?

    >
    > Right click > open in new window/tab/page
    > Or
    > Shift + Left Click
    > Or
    > whatever other methods your browser provides for you.
    >
    > From an author's point of view, it's best not to. Leave the choice up
    > to the user.
    >
    > >The problem with opening a new window through TARGET="_FRONT"

    >
    > Not allowed. Only the four reserved values (_top, _blank, _parent,
    > _self) of target are allowed to start with an udnerscore. Browsers may
    > ignore that value, treat it as simply FRONT, or do something else
    > entirely.
    >
    > http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/types.html#type-frame-target
    >
    > >or TARGET="_BLANK", is that from your main page, you keep opening
    > >different pages in the same window.

    >
    > Not if you use target="_blank". That should create a new, nameless,
    > window every time (assuming that the browser is capable of and allowed
    > to create new windows).
    >
    > I didn't think it was case sensitive, maybe it is, Maybe it is in your
    > browser. Maybe you didn't actually try to use _BLANK but always used
    > _FRONT.


    No, I used both. The TARGET="_BLANK" works very well from frames.
    However, in an ordinary page, it just does the same as TARGET="_FRONT".
    I even tried TARGET="_NEW".

    This used for a page with just a few different links/divisions.
    http://www.martialhub.com/

    Alex
    Alex, Nov 23, 2003
    #17
  18. Alex

    Kris Guest

    In article <633wb.8760$>,
    "Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > Kris wrote in message ...
    > > Then imagine how confusing a sudden new window for them will be.

    >
    > 'Sudden New Window' - what on earth are you talking about? The whole process
    > of the www is based on
    > 'New Windows' - that's what they expect to see.


    Did you ask them? All of them?

    >
    > > any attempt of the author to control it for them is a dangerous thing.

    >
    > 'Dangerous' - what? as in heart-attack or what?


    No, just as in "Bye bye website, i go somewhere else".

    >
    > > The visitor clicks the link; the visitor wants to leave, not stay.

    >
    > Ah - so you know all the answers now then !!


    If you say so. At least I read the FAQ.

    --
    Kris
    erlands (nl)
    Kris, Nov 23, 2003
    #18
  19. Alex

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <4all.nl>,
    erlands says...
    > > 'New Windows' - that's what they expect to see.

    > Did you ask them? All of them?


    He asked me, and that is what I expect to see.

    > > 'Dangerous' - what? as in heart-attack or what?

    > No, just as in "Bye bye website, i go somewhere else".


    Well no one can expect to please everyone, I hope you have fun at the
    other web sites....

    > > > The visitor clicks the link; the visitor wants to leave, not stay.

    > > Ah - so you know all the answers now then !!

    > If you say so. At least I read the FAQ.


    The FAQ, is an OPINION written by people.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, Nov 23, 2003
    #19
  20. Alex

    kchayka Guest

    Steve R. wrote:
    >
    > I still think it's much simpler on a "Links" page to have all the
    > links open in a new window.


    So, a links page with 20 links will potentially open 20 new windows?
    Ish. Just try to find any one particular window in that mess. Somebody
    running with maximized windows might not even realize what's going on if
    the extra windows open in the background and they don't notice the
    taskbar filling up.

    BTW, I've been to plenty of sites that do this and cursed most of them.

    > That way you can be sure that your visitor doesn't lose sight of your
    > own original website, which you've fought hard to get him/her to
    > visit in the first place :~)


    Well, once those 20 extra windows are closed I'd make a point not to
    revisit. So what have you gained?

    --
    To email a reply, remove (dash)un(dash). Mail sent to the un
    address is considered spam and automatically deleted.
    kchayka, Nov 23, 2003
    #20
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