i am going to get crazy!!!

Discussion in 'Python' started by andresm, Sep 15, 2004.

  1. andresm

    andresm Guest

    I cant believe there is no single decent open source for python, all
    them miss some of the most core features an ide should have, i just
    cant believe this!!! I have been looking for a decent ide for one
    weak, i have tried all of them, all. the only kick ass one is ipython,
    but thats a shell that shows how an ide should be.

    I come from a java background using eclipse, netbeans,intellij,etc
    and i realy liked to learn python =( , java sucks for tons of reasons,
    but i dont now what to do the most important feature of an ide is
    syntax coloring and "full code completion suport".

    For example if i am learning how to use the sys module in my code and
    while i am writing like :

    sys .

    A list should appear showing me all the attributes of the module or
    class : variables,locals,globals,builtins,etc and when i focus on one
    item for example " setprofile " method the documentation of the method
    should appear in another popup , that way i can learn the libraries
    fast and in an interactive way. Is all i want in an ide ALL IDES have
    this. Why python ones dont ? in spe you get everything that is in the
    namespace,not just the object before the dot triger,same in eric3, in
    komodo you get just the functions, no docs.

    Whats wrong with my common sense? all ides for php,java,c have this
    feature , is all i want to be able to program fast =( .

    But i have to alt-tab to konsole to the ipython shell, type help(sys)
    , find the doc and info i need and go back to the editor again, is
    like 20 seconds comparing to 1 with code completion suport.

    How do you guys program without a feature like this? that is the only
    reason i need an ide, how do you remember all the methods names,
    parameters , attributes , classes, behavior while coding with an ide
    not suporting this tools? i wont memorize all of them =( is
    contraproducent if a tool can help, not to mention when learing new
    libraries, memorize again? or take 10 seconds every time you dont
    remember something to take the time to look into it? What should i
    do? T_T
    andresm, Sep 15, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. andresm

    Paul Metzger Guest

    andresm wrote:

    >I cant believe there is no single decent open source for python, all
    >them miss some of the most core features an ide should have, i just
    >cant believe this!!! I have been looking for a decent ide for one
    >weak, i have tried all of them, all. the only kick ass one is ipython,
    >but thats a shell that shows how an ide should be.
    >
    >
    >

    Have you tried wxglade? It's pretty good, Not all that, but pretty good.

    > I come from a java background using eclipse, netbeans,intellij,etc
    >and i realy liked to learn python =( , java sucks for tons of reasons,
    >but i dont now what to do the most important feature of an ide is
    >syntax coloring and "full code completion suport".
    >
    >
    >

    As far as the syntax coloring goes, use vim. It's the best text editor
    on the open source/gnu/gpl market IMNSHO and it's rather intuitive. As
    far as the full code completion goes, the M$ .net studio killed me from
    ever wanting to see another ide that does that. While it's useful(and I
    think wxglade has a option for it) Personally I prefer to do most of
    everything in vi:) but I am a command line junkie also.

    > For example if i am learning how to use the sys module in my code and
    >while i am writing like :
    >
    > sys .
    >
    > A list should appear showing me all the attributes of the module or
    >class : variables,locals,globals,builtins,etc and when i focus on one
    >item for example " setprofile " method the documentation of the method
    >should appear in another popup , that way i can learn the libraries
    >fast and in an interactive way. Is all i want in an ide ALL IDES have
    >this. Why python ones dont ? in spe you get everything that is in the
    >namespace,not just the object before the dot triger,same in eric3, in
    >komodo you get just the functions, no docs.
    >
    > Whats wrong with my common sense? all ides for php,java,c have this
    >feature , is all i want to be able to program fast =( .
    >
    >
    >

    Python is quick in and of it's self. esp when you get into the functions
    and make it pull in thoes functions...


    Paul
    Paul Metzger, Sep 15, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On 14 Sep 2004 17:15:39 -0700, andresm <> wrote:
    > I cant believe there is no single decent open source for python, all
    > them miss some of the most core features an ide should have, i just
    > cant believe this!!! I have been looking for a decent ide for one
    > weak, i have tried all of them, all. the only kick ass one is ipython,
    > but thats a shell that shows how an ide should be.


    If you look at it, I've been discussing IDEs in this forum over the
    past few days. I have probably heard every possible tip regarding all
    alternatives available, many on list, and several others off list.
    I'll tell you what I have found so far.

    -- There are two classes of developers: those who like IDEs and those
    who doesn't. The latter camp includes people that swear by Emacs, VIM,
    and stuff like that. I don't mean to sound badly, but such people
    don't get what's the fuss about a good IDE. They come from another
    background, and normally write another type of software, one that
    doesn't need such "fancy" gadgetry to work. Don't try to argue with
    them -- there's no right and wrong here, just different styles at
    work.

    -- If you listen to the IDE camp only, then you can still separate a
    few groups.

    1) If all that you need is a good editor with syntax coloring and a
    few Python niceties, then you have several options -- free and
    commercial. All Scintilla-based editors offer at least some basic
    functionality. Light IDEs like PythonWin and DrPython offer automatic
    code completion, block indent/outdent, and quick access to the
    documentation. Good text editors such as EditPlus are also useful,
    albeit less featured in their support for Python.

    2) Some people understand IDEs as full fledged, highly flexible
    programming environments. In this camp you can evaluate ActiveState's
    Komodo and Boa Constructor. Komodo is a high quality commercial
    product; Boa is free, well structured, still incomplete at parts, but
    it works fairly well. I would like to point you to Wing IDE, but I
    could not run the beta version that I've installed. Your mileage may
    vary.

    3) There are a few non-integrated design tools that provide parts of
    what you expect from a good IDE. wxGlade is one such example -- it's a
    GUI builder for wxPython that can be used together with other tools,
    such as SPE - Stan's Python Editor, or any other light IDE I've
    mentioned on item (1).

    4) PythonCard is slightly different in that it's based on Hypercard.
    It's a IDE in some senses, but it's simpler than Boa, and uses a
    slightly different paradigm.

    For now, it's late, and I really have to sleep now :) I hope to have
    helped. Feel free to drop me a line if you're still in need of help.


    --
    Carlos Ribeiro
    Consultoria em Projetos
    blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
    blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
    mail:
    mail:
    Carlos Ribeiro, Sep 15, 2004
    #3
  4. andresm

    PyProg Guest

    Have you taken a look at wxPython? --> http://www.wxpython.org/download.php

    I don't know a lot about it, because I'm a 'vim' type of guy, but it
    seems to me that
    their 'PyShell' utility might be to your liking.

    Regards ... PyProg

    andresm wrote:

    >I cant believe there is no single decent open source for python, all
    >them miss some of the most core features an ide should have, i just
    >cant believe this!!! I have been looking for a decent ide for one
    >weak, i have tried all of them, all. the only kick ass one is ipython,
    >but thats a shell that shows how an ide should be.
    >
    > I come from a java background using eclipse, netbeans,intellij,etc
    >and i realy liked to learn python =( , java sucks for tons of reasons,
    >but i dont now what to do the most important feature of an ide is
    >syntax coloring and "full code completion suport".
    >
    > For example if i am learning how to use the sys module in my code and
    >while i am writing like :
    >
    > sys .
    >
    > A list should appear showing me all the attributes of the module or
    >class : variables,locals,globals,builtins,etc and when i focus on one
    >item for example " setprofile " method the documentation of the method
    >should appear in another popup , that way i can learn the libraries
    >fast and in an interactive way. Is all i want in an ide ALL IDES have
    >this. Why python ones dont ? in spe you get everything that is in the
    >namespace,not just the object before the dot triger,same in eric3, in
    >komodo you get just the functions, no docs.
    >
    > Whats wrong with my common sense? all ides for php,java,c have this
    >feature , is all i want to be able to program fast =( .
    >
    > But i have to alt-tab to konsole to the ipython shell, type help(sys)
    >, find the doc and info i need and go back to the editor again, is
    >like 20 seconds comparing to 1 with code completion suport.
    >
    > How do you guys program without a feature like this? that is the only
    >reason i need an ide, how do you remember all the methods names,
    >parameters , attributes , classes, behavior while coding with an ide
    >not suporting this tools? i wont memorize all of them =( is
    >contraproducent if a tool can help, not to mention when learing new
    >libraries, memorize again? or take 10 seconds every time you dont
    >remember something to take the time to look into it? What should i
    >do? T_T
    >
    >
    PyProg, Sep 15, 2004
    #4
  5. andresm

    Cliff Wells Guest

    On Tue, 2004-09-14 at 17:15 -0700, andresm wrote:
    > I come from a java background using eclipse, netbeans,intellij,etc
    > and i realy liked to learn python =( , java sucks for tons of reasons,
    > but i dont now what to do the most important feature of an ide is
    > syntax coloring and "full code completion suport".


    I don't know if this is any good, but since you like Eclipse:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyeclipse/


    --
    Cliff Wells <>
    Cliff Wells, Sep 15, 2004
    #5
  6. andresm

    Ian J Cottee Guest

    Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

    > -- There are two classes of developers: those who like IDEs and those
    > who doesn't. The latter camp includes people that swear by Emacs, VIM,
    > and stuff like that. I don't mean to sound badly, but such people
    > don't get what's the fuss about a good IDE. They come from another
    > background, and normally write another type of software, one that
    > doesn't need such "fancy" gadgetry to work. Don't try to argue with
    > them -- there's no right and wrong here, just different styles at
    > work.


    Must resist religious wars. Must resist religious wars BUT :) ... Emacs
    *is* an IDE. More integrated than many others. And to be fair VIM is an
    IDE.

    If, within emacs I can get syntax hilighting, code completion, block
    indent/outdent, debugging, project management, code folding I would call
    that an IDE. And I have the same functions if I then need to edit some
    SQL, Javascript, ZPT etc. And when I want to play with Lisp in my spare
    time I can use the same environment. It's that flexibility that I like.

    It isn't perfect though. Hence why I have been searching for something
    better as well. Maybe the future is Eclipse. Maybe the future is
    Emacs++. We shall see and I will continue to evaluate :)

    Ian
    Ian J Cottee, Sep 15, 2004
    #6
  7. Cliff Wells <clifford.wells <at> comcast.net> writes:
    >
    > I don't know if this is any good, but since you like Eclipse:
    >
    > http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyeclipse/


    Actually, if you like Eclipse, I'd suggest pydev:

    http://pydev.sourceforge.net/

    It's actually still updated from time to time (last in July of this year), and
    I've played around with it a little back when I had to write in Java (ugh!)
    and it did integrate pretty well with Eclipse. If I remember right though, it
    doesn't use the code-completion that all the wxPython based apps do...

    Steve
    Steven Bethard, Sep 15, 2004
    #7
  8. andresm

    Elbert Lev Guest

    (andresm) wrote in message news:<>...
    > I cant believe there is no single decent open source for python, all
    > them miss some of the most core features an ide should have, i just
    > cant believe this!!! I have been looking for a decent ide for one
    > weak, i have tried all of them, all. the only kick ass one is ipython,
    > but thats a shell that shows how an ide should be.
    >
    > I come from a java background using eclipse, netbeans,intellij,etc
    > and i realy liked to learn python =( , java sucks for tons of reasons,
    > but i dont now what to do the most important feature of an ide is
    > syntax coloring and "full code completion suport".
    >
    > For example if i am learning how to use the sys module in my code and
    > while i am writing like :
    >
    > sys .
    >
    > A list should appear showing me all the attributes of the module or
    > class : variables,locals,globals,builtins,etc and when i focus on one
    > item for example " setprofile " method the documentation of the method
    > should appear in another popup , that way i can learn the libraries
    > fast and in an interactive way. Is all i want in an ide ALL IDES have
    > this. Why python ones dont ? in spe you get everything that is in the
    > namespace,not just the object before the dot triger,same in eric3, in
    > komodo you get just the functions, no docs.
    >
    > Whats wrong with my common sense? all ides for php,java,c have this
    > feature , is all i want to be able to program fast =( .
    >
    > But i have to alt-tab to konsole to the ipython shell, type help(sys)
    > , find the doc and info i need and go back to the editor again, is
    > like 20 seconds comparing to 1 with code completion suport.
    >
    > How do you guys program without a feature like this? that is the only
    > reason i need an ide, how do you remember all the methods names,
    > parameters , attributes , classes, behavior while coding with an ide
    > not suporting this tools? i wont memorize all of them =( is
    > contraproducent if a tool can help, not to mention when learing new
    > libraries, memorize again? or take 10 seconds every time you dont
    > remember something to take the time to look into it? What should i
    > do? T_T


    I agree with you. I find myself jumping from TextPad or vim to
    PythonWin, because TextPad does not have help/autocompletion, but is
    fast (not so vim or emax). PythonWin is slow but has a debugger and a
    sort of semyfunctional help/autocompletion.

    SPE looks good, but lacks debugger and project/workspace management.
    In short: none of this tools does not come close to Visual C IDE.
    Elbert Lev, Sep 15, 2004
    #8
  9. andresm

    Xavier Noria Guest

    On Sep 15, 2004, at 12:37, Elbert Lev wrote:

    > I agree with you. I find myself jumping from TextPad or vim to
    > PythonWin, because TextPad does not have help/autocompletion, but is
    > fast (not so vim or emax). PythonWin is slow but has a debugger and a
    > sort of semyfunctional help/autocompletion.


    Just being curious, what kind of autocompletion do you guys expect for
    a dynamic language? Some people have mentioned Java IDEs talking about
    this feature, but since there is no place in the source that says that
    in

    name = user.name

    User.name() returns a string, after that line name.<ctrl-spc> cannot
    complete for string attributes, it just doesn't know name is expected
    to be a string. The method theoretically could return objects of
    different types depending on something, indeed.

    There are partial solutions that use a substring approach, but none
    type-aware that I know (for instance Emacs has C-M-/ that is really
    helpful in practice, the Perl plugin for Eclipse does some completion
    as well).

    Am I missing some sophisticated code analysis that allows conventional
    code-completion?

    -- fxn
    Xavier Noria, Sep 15, 2004
    #9
  10. Xavier Noria wrote:
    > Am I missing some sophisticated code analysis that allows conventional
    > code-completion?


    I think Wing IDE tries that approach, at least according to some posts
    in similar threads. It won't be perfect. I haven't tried it so I don't
    know if it's helpful because it works half of the time. Or annoying,
    because it beeps half of the time.

    Daniel
    Daniel Dittmar, Sep 15, 2004
    #10
  11. andresm

    Peter Hansen Guest

    Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

    > -- There are two classes of developers: those who like IDEs and those
    > who doesn't. The latter camp includes people that swear by Emacs, VIM,
    > and stuff like that. I don't mean to sound badly, but such people
    > don't get what's the fuss about a good IDE. They come from another
    > background, and normally write another type of software, one that
    > doesn't need such "fancy" gadgetry to work. Don't try to argue with
    > them -- there's no right and wrong here, just different styles at
    > work.


    Carlos, you're right that different styles are involved, and this
    could be considered yet another "religious" matter, but don't make
    the mistake of assuming those of us who prefer no IDE "come from
    another background" or "don't get the fuss". I suspect many or
    most of us have used very fancy GUI IDE tools *extensively*, but
    have after long years and for various reasons rejected them in
    favour of simpler or lighter weight approaches.

    -Peter
    Peter Hansen, Sep 15, 2004
    #11
  12. On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:06:04 +0900, Ian J Cottee <> wrote:
    > Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
    >
    > > -- There are two classes of developers: those who like IDEs and those
    > > who doesn't. (...)

    >
    > Must resist religious wars. Must resist religious wars BUT :) ... Emacs
    > *is* an IDE. More integrated than many others. And to be fair VIM is an
    > IDE.


    Ian, I sincerely don't want to spawn a religious war. That's why I
    made my point clear: there are two types (classes?) of developers, and
    there's nothing wrong with it -- it's just a matter of choice,
    dictated to a great extent by their particular needs.

    Now, while *great* for what it's proposed to do, Emacs is not an IDE,
    in the sense that people that actually use IDEs mean. It's an editor
    (and a powerful one at this), but it's not an IDE. What *I* (and
    other IDE-lovers) mean when mentioning IDE is a different type of
    software.

    A true IDE is a one-stop-shop. There you do everything a programmer
    need: write code, debug, manage source code files, read help, and even
    write the documentation. Of course, you can do several tasks such as
    the ones mentioned above from within Emacs, so what's the difference?
    In an IDE, each and every tool are an integrated part of the design,
    and they do work seamlessly together. It's not the same thing as to
    use an editor to fire up an external compiler or debugger. Believe me:
    for those who are used to it, *its not the same thing*. Another trait
    of good IDEs is the visual component. Most of the things mentioned
    above are easily accessible, making management of big projects
    somewhat easier.

    However, I *have* to point out something that I just realized after
    debating the whole IDE issue over the past few days. One of the things
    that many IDE-type programmers miss is not the IDE itself... but a
    common framework to develop new applications. Good IDEs go a step
    beyond code editing, and are very well integrated with a framework for
    application development. They will automatically generate much of the
    code that is needed to start the design of a new application. Many
    business programmers love this stuff, as it frees them from thinking
    about event loops, message handling, etc -- and allows them to focus
    on the form design and business logic (that's whats business
    programming is really about).

    For Python, the only such examples that I've seen so far are Boa and
    PythonCard. Both offer a good framework to start with. Boa writes most
    of the code that is needed to start a new wxPython for you, so you
    don't have to bother writing it -- you can concentrate on the problem
    at hand. But both Boa and PythonCard are still work in progress. Boa
    is almost there, though; and I sincerely hope the best for Riaan [1],
    because he's doing fine.

    --
    [1] For those who don't know him, Boa's author.

    --
    Carlos Ribeiro
    Consultoria em Projetos
    blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
    blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
    mail:
    mail:
    Carlos Ribeiro, Sep 15, 2004
    #12
  13. On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:25:40 -0400, Peter Hansen <> wrote:
    > Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
    >
    > > -- There are two classes of developers: those who like IDEs and those
    > > who doesn't. (...)

    >
    > Carlos, you're right that different styles are involved, and this
    > could be considered yet another "religious" matter, but don't make
    > the mistake of assuming those of us who prefer no IDE "come from
    > another background" or "don't get the fuss". I suspect many or
    > most of us have used very fancy GUI IDE tools *extensively*, but
    > have after long years and for various reasons rejected them in
    > favour of simpler or lighter weight approaches.


    I'm really sorry if I you (or anybody else) read it this way. I never
    meant to say that people that don't like "fancy GUI IDEs" had not
    knowledge about them. In fact, some of the best programmers all around
    don't like IDEs, and it must tell us something about it :) But there
    are lots of valid reasons to choose one or other type of tool.
    Personal choice is one of them, and I think that it may be one of the
    most important things to be considered here. But I still think that
    the type of programming work at hand is essential to understand why an
    RAD-style IDE is so important to some people.

    I've commented a few minutes ago that one of the problems, in the
    particular case of Python IDEs, is not with the IDE itself, but the
    lack of a simple framework for application development. This framework
    is integrated in every top commercial IDE available -- be it Delphi,
    VB, Visual Studio, whatever. Of all Python IDEs, only Boa and
    PythonCard come close to such offering, but fall short on several
    fronts; for example, the lack of database editing controls is one such
    a problem.

    Why is it so important, you may ask? I may be over generalizing again,
    so take it as my own personal opinion and with a large grain of salt.
    Business programmers don't like to have to worry about event loops,
    message handling, database marshalling, initialization or finalization
    code. They want to design forms, glue them together, add a few
    business rules, and have an application running as quickly as
    possible. That's has nothing to do with skill or technical competence.
    It's just the way it is -- when you're paid relatively low wages to
    finish a lot of small programs, you're better of making the most of
    your time. And writing code by hand to tie the database to the text
    editing control is not going to help much in this regard.

    --
    Carlos Ribeiro
    Consultoria em Projetos
    blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
    blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
    mail:
    mail:
    Carlos Ribeiro, Sep 15, 2004
    #13
  14. andresm

    Ian J Cottee Guest

    Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
    > On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:06:04 +0900, Ian J Cottee <> wrote:
    >>
    >>Must resist religious wars. Must resist religious wars BUT :) ... Emacs
    >>*is* an IDE. More integrated than many others. And to be fair VIM is an
    >>IDE.

    >
    > Ian, I sincerely don't want to spawn a religious war. That's why I
    > made my point clear: there are two types (classes?) of developers, and
    > there's nothing wrong with it -- it's just a matter of choice,
    > dictated to a great extent by their particular needs.
    >


    Well - I did put a smiley in but ... awwwww. What'a a little religious
    war between friends? ;-).

    > Now, while *great* for what it's proposed to do, Emacs is not an IDE,
    > in the sense that people that actually use IDEs mean. It's an editor
    > (and a powerful one at this), but it's not an IDE. What *I* (and
    > other IDE-lovers) mean when mentioning IDE is a different type of
    > software.


    I think my problem with your comments is you think the world is split
    between those who 'get' IDEs and those who don't. I think the first IDE
    I ever used was Think C on the Mac. Since then I've used quite a few -
    the most commonly known was Delphi which fulfilled most of your criteria
    from below. For full integration I'll shudder at the memories of VB and
    Access.

    Now, I was going to comment on the remaining points you made but I'll
    start sounding religious again. ;-). Honestly, I understand what you are
    after (well, I believe I do) - it's probably similar to what I am after
    as well. I haven't found it and therefore use Emacs.

    Somebody else commented a few weeks back that they'd thrown away all
    their fancy tools and gone back to just using Scintilla and were more
    productive for it. I think I can understand that. Sometimes I spend so
    much time modifying modes and tweaking settings that productivity
    slumps. I should stop my quest and get on with some work.

    Ian

    PS You have a very well written blog. I'm enjoying reading it.

    PPS For the record, I use wxDesigner for wxPython form design.
    http://www.roebling.de/. It's commercial but cheap.
    Ian J Cottee, Sep 15, 2004
    #14
  15. andresm

    andresm Guest

    Steven Bethard <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Cliff Wells <clifford.wells <at> comcast.net> writes:
    > >
    > > I don't know if this is any good, but since you like Eclipse:
    > >
    > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyeclipse/

    >
    > Actually, if you like Eclipse, I'd suggest pydev:
    >
    > http://pydev.sourceforge.net/
    >
    > It's actually still updated from time to time (last in July of this year), and
    > I've played around with it a little back when I had to write in Java (ugh!)
    > and it did integrate pretty well with Eclipse. If I remember right though, it
    > doesn't use the code-completion that all the wxPython based apps do...
    >
    > Steve



    Sorry for my bad english =( i am from bolivia plus i
    havent sleeped at all last night plus i am kind of
    disapointed.

    I am not interested in gui design in particular,
    the only thing i want in an ide is that it have full
    code completion like i tried to describe with that
    mess of words =P i will try to refactor:
    -------------------------------- case 1 ----------------------------
    if i am learning how to use the sys
    module in my code,then i type:

    sys .

    A list should appear showing me all the
    attributes of the module or
    class : variables,locals,globals,builtins,etc.

    like typing dir(sys) or sys.__dict__

    when i focus on one
    item in the list of attributes , for example "
    setprofile " method of the sys module, the
    documentation of the method should appear in another
    popup
    ----------------------------------- case 2----------------------------

    I dont have an ide that suports this feature , so i have
    to press alt+tab to go to the shell ( ipython is spectacular)
    type help(sys) , look for the member i want, in this case the
    set profile builtin function , or i type help(sys.setprofile) or
    i type sys. +tab and i python ' shows me all the members of'
    sys modules, Then i have to go back to editor and keep
    writing
    ------------------------------------ conclusion
    ------------------------
    with an ide i can scan object's behavior and their members's
    doc in 1.5 seconds while not changing the enviroment , in situa
    tion 2 i can do exactly the same, just that it takes 5 to 10 sec
    which is way to much time for an operation i do so so frecuently
    This is an example of how an ide makes a huge diference . This
    is the only feature i want in an ide, it saves tons of time
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If you still havent tried a ' powerfull ide' please try downloading
    netbeans and coding a simple class :
    http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/index.html

    I have tried a number of python ides, and eclipse-plugins for
    python, all the eclipse plugins are abandoned or are just text
    editors with sintax highlinting , none of the ides i tried fully
    suport
    full code completion dot-trigered with docstring thing, i have tried:

    Pycrust or py, komodo , wingide , kate , spe , boa ,idle, drpython,
    eric3 , blackader , scite , etc and no luck. Komodo is 100% the best
    but it still lacks a litle and it totaly SUCKS for linux , and is
    beautifull
    for windows.

    I am sure most people have used this kind of code
    completion - help system since it is part of many
    ides, like netbeans, eclipse , zend studio , jcreator
    , sharp develop , .net , etc.


    But the question again, how do you remember all
    methods,attributes,parameters , builtins , etc without
    code completion-calltip-auto doc help of any modern
    ide? except python ones =(

    Are you in case 1 ? cause is too time consuming
    andresm, Sep 15, 2004
    #15
  16. andresm wrote:
    > with an ide i can scan object's behavior and their members's
    > doc in 1.5 seconds while not changing the enviroment , in situa
    > tion 2 i can do exactly the same, just that it takes 5 to 10 sec
    > which is way to much time for an operation i do so so frecuently
    > This is an example of how an ide makes a huge diference . This
    > is the only feature i want in an ide, it saves tons of time


    As someone else wrote in this thread:
    - Python is dynamically typed
    - thus, the types of most expressions can't be inferred by an ide
    - when the type of an expression is unknown, no useful code completition
    is possible
    - modules are an exception, but having code completition on the re
    module doesn't help that much as most of the time you'll deal with
    objects out of that module like re objects and match objects
    - at least one company provides a commercial IDE (Wing IDE) which claims
    to support auto completition by sophisticated data flow analysis. How
    well it works probably depends on your programming style

    Daniel
    Daniel Dittmar, Sep 15, 2004
    #16
  17. andresm

    Paul McNett Guest

    Carlos Ribeiro writes:

    > However, I *have* to point out something that I just realized
    > after debating the whole IDE issue over the past few days.
    > One of the things that many IDE-type programmers miss is not
    > the IDE itself... but a common framework to develop new
    > applications. Good IDEs go a step beyond code editing, and
    > are very well integrated with a framework for application
    > development. They will automatically generate much of the
    > code that is needed to start the design of a new application.
    > Many business programmers love this stuff, as it frees them
    > from thinking about event loops, message handling, etc -- and
    > allows them to focus on the form design and business logic
    > (that's whats business programming is really about).


    Carlos, I've been reluctant to post anything because all I have
    to offer is vaporware at the moment, but everything you have
    said you want, we want too, and plan on putting into our
    product, "Dabo", which we hope to have a 1.0 of by year-end
    2005. That may be too ambitious, but if you ignore the fact
    that there is no IDE and no report writer yet, it is already
    quite capable.

    http://dabodev.com

    3-tier business app development framework and IDE.

    --
    Paul McNett
    Independent Software Consultant
    http://www.paulmcnett.com
    Paul McNett, Sep 16, 2004
    #17
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Navin
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    640
    Navin
    Jul 28, 2003
  2. Jay Douglas
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    398
    Jay Douglas
    Aug 28, 2003
  3. Larry Tate

    getting confused and going crazy

    Larry Tate, Dec 21, 2003, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    487
    Larry Tate
    Dec 21, 2003
  4. Miguel Dias Moura
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    472
    Miguel Dias Moura
    Sep 28, 2004
  5. Dan
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    113
Loading...

Share This Page