I just thought I'd ask...

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by robin, Aug 21, 2005.

  1. robin

    robin Guest

    Anyone interested in working with me on programming a programming
    language in perl? The idea is that it would be easy to work with and be
    based on using english to code with...ie: all of the keywords would be
    english words and writing sentences would produce code that works in
    the language.

    I can't pay you, it'd have to be free work.

    Thanks and best regards,

    -Robin
     
    robin, Aug 21, 2005
    #1
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  2. "robin" <> wrote in news:1124633818.854562.121020
    @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

    > Subject: I just thought I'd ask...


    Please put the subject of your post in the subject line.

    > Anyone interested in working with me on programming a programming
    > language in perl?


    perldoc -q difference

    > The idea is that it would be easy to work with and be based
    > on using english to code with...ie: all of the keywords would be
    > english words and writing sentences would produce code that works in
    > the language.
    >
    > I can't pay you, it'd have to be free work.


    I see, you head hasn't stopped spinning yet.

    Next, you are gonna ask if you should use arrays or hashes to write a
    programming language.

    *Sigh*

    Just learn Perl first.

    Sinan

    --
    A. Sinan Unur <>
    (reverse each component and remove .invalid for email address)

    comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
    http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
     
    A. Sinan Unur, Aug 21, 2005
    #2
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  3. robin

    Guest

    robin <> wrote:
    > Anyone interested in working with me on programming a programming
    > language in perl? The idea is that it would be easy to work with and be
    > based on using english to code with...ie: all of the keywords would be
    > english words and writing sentences would produce code that works in
    > the language.


    Why do you want to write another Cobol compiler?

    Axel
     
    , Aug 21, 2005
    #3
  4. robin wrote:
    > Anyone interested in working with me on programming a programming
    > language in perl?


    If you would have omitted the "with me" part, then this offer would have
    been much more attractive.

    > The idea is that it would be easy to work with and
    > be based on using english to code with...ie: all of the keywords
    > would be english words


    Nothing new there, that's the case for almost all programming languages
    already.

    > and writing sentences would produce code that
    > works in the language.


    That on the other hand is a real challenge. So far parsing of natural
    language sentences is still a mostly unsolved problem. If you succeed you
    can certainly publish that paper as a Ph.D. thesis. Emphasis on the "if".

    Mind if I ask which background you have in compiler construction, computer
    or natural linguistic, programming language theory, database design, parser
    design, ...(just to name a few)? Of course you don't have to be an expert in
    all of them, but it certainly helps to have a solid foundation in at least
    some of those areas.

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Aug 21, 2005
    #4
  5. robin wrote:
    > Anyone interested in working with me on programming a programming
    > language in perl? The idea is that it would be easy to work with and be
    > based on using english to code with...ie: all of the keywords would be
    > english words and writing sentences would produce code that works in
    > the language.


    Anyone interested in building a bridge across the English Channel with
    me? I have lots of lego bricks, with which I've built the odd house and
    something that could be a cow, and I'm pretty sure I know where and what
    the Channel is.
     
    Mark Clements, Aug 21, 2005
    #5
  6. Re: Implementing an English-Like Language - a Friendly Reply (Was:I just thought I'd ask..)

    robin wrote:
    > interested in working with me on programming a programming
    > language in perl? <snip> would be based on using english
    > to code with...ie: all of the keywords would be english words


    Hi,
    An interesting idea. If the language will be something screen reader
    friendly that reads out well with a speech synth and no punctuation, I'm
    definitely willing to at least give it a try as a user. It might be easier
    in the beginning to try building something on top of Perl with macroes and
    source filtering rather than going all the way and trying to re-invent the
    wheel in things like regular expressions. Take a practical test. If you're
    head hurts after reading this lex man page, I would seriously urge you not
    to consider building a stand-alone full-blown programming language:

    http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?lex

    This is getting OT but I've never liked Unix man pages myself. Descriptive
    words that come to mind include terse, cold, cryptic, lack of examples,
    needlessly techy and half a dozen others that I don't care to mention
    <smile>.

    Wouldn't it be a lot simpler if the output was Perl in the end but didn't
    look like it to the user? One way to do it is through the Filter::Simple
    source filtering construct. See your

    %perldir%\lib\Html\Filter\

    Folder for usage information. %perldir% here is a DOS environment variable
    that you should substitute with the location of your perl folder e.g.
    c:\perl\

    Could anyone name an existing programming language that is TUring complete,
    not terribly minimal and relies as much on English words and as little on
    punctuation as possible? I'm naturally interested both because I doubt the
    success rate of this perl project and as inspiration for the syntax.

    Regarding the other posts in this thread, personally, I don't see the point
    in including snide remarks and or newbie bashing even in messages like this.
    It really doesn't help anyone in the end the least the original poster. Sure
    I do admit the subject does not convey the body of the message really and
    there are not too many details of this language implementation idea. I guess
    robin just had the idea and hasn't given the implementation details too much
    thought at this point. Stil, a number of projects come to mind that I would
    probably never have done had I known how much work they would be. But they
    benefited me greatly and I learned a lot in the end, even if the projects
    didn't went as well as I had anticipated.

    --
    With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä ()
    Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
    http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/
     
    Veli-Pekka Tätilä, Aug 22, 2005
    #6
  7. Re: Implementing an English-Like Language - a Friendly Reply (Was:Ijust thought I'd ask..)

    Veli-Pekka Tätilä wrote:
    >
    >
    > Regarding the other posts in this thread, personally, I don't see the point
    > in including snide remarks and or newbie bashing even in messages like this.
    > It really doesn't help anyone in the end the least the original poster. Sure


    Robin has a very long and undistinguished track-record here. Any time
    spent trying to help him is, unfortunately, pretty much wasted. Many
    have tried and failed; most have by now lost patience and given up. Best
    of luck if you want to try yourself :)

    Mark
     
    Mark Clements, Aug 22, 2005
    #7
  8. Re: Implementing an English-Like Language - a Friendly Reply

    >>>>> "VPT" == Veli-Pekka Tätilä <> writes:

    VPT> Could anyone name an existing programming language that is
    VPT> TUring complete, not terribly minimal and relies as much on
    VPT> English words and as little on punctuation as possible? I'm
    VPT> naturally interested both because I doubt the success rate of
    VPT> this perl project and as inspiration for the syntax.

    AppleScript has that as one of its design goals, as did the language
    that HyperCard used - HyperTalk? It's also something that
    Lingua::Romana::perligata accomplishes for Perl, though in Latin and
    not English (because Latin's inflected case system does a good job of
    replacing Perl's prefix sigils); see
    http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html.

    All are extremely verbose, with either lots of prepositions or
    inflections replacing the punctuation. I'm not sure either is a real
    improvement.

    VPT> Regarding the other posts in this thread, personally, I don't
    VPT> see the point in including snide remarks and or newbie
    VPT> bashing even in messages like this.

    The original poster is not a newbie, at least chronologically; he's
    been asking really basic questions for well over a year now, and not
    apparently learning from the responses he gets. The remarks are not
    aimed at newbies in general, but at one particular poster; whether
    they're deserved or not, well, consult google groups for his posting
    history and see for yourself. I suspect he's gotten fewer snide
    responses because most of the regulars have him plonked already.

    Charlton




    --
    cwilbur at chromatico dot net
    cwilbur at mac dot com
     
    Charlton Wilbur, Aug 22, 2005
    #8
  9. robin

    Arne Ruhnau Guest

    Jürgen Exner wrote:
    > robin wrote:
    >
    >>and writing sentences would produce code that
    >>works in the language.

    >
    > That on the other hand is a real challenge. So far parsing of natural
    > language sentences is still a mostly unsolved problem. If you succeed you
    > can certainly publish that paper as a Ph.D. thesis. Emphasis on the "if".


    What exactly do you mean by "unsolved"?

    http://start.csail.mit.edu/
    http://www.cl.uni-bremen.de/~stefan/Babel/Interaktiv/

    Back to "topic":
    If you, robin, succeed in writing a programming language that is a natural
    language, and if the semantics of your programming language are the same as
    that of this natural language, and if you have a system that acts according
    to these semantics, then you have solved the problem of understanding
    natural language, made declarative programming a bliss and many linguists
    out there unemployed. By applying a bit of indirection, you could use the
    Universal Grammar and become language independent. Nice.

    Of course, you may want to take a look at formalisms for natural languages,
    some of which are HPSG, The MP, GB and LFG. For the Semantics-part, what
    about DRT, or MRS?
    Good luck

    Arne Ruhnau

    ;)
     
    Arne Ruhnau, Aug 22, 2005
    #9
  10. robin

    ChrisO Guest

    Arne Ruhnau wrote:
    > Jürgen Exner wrote:
    >
    >> robin wrote:

    >
    > >

    >
    >>> and writing sentences would produce code that
    >>> works in the language.

    >>
    >>
    >> That on the other hand is a real challenge. So far parsing of natural
    >> language sentences is still a mostly unsolved problem. If you succeed
    >> you can certainly publish that paper as a Ph.D. thesis. Emphasis on
    >> the "if".

    >
    >
    > What exactly do you mean by "unsolved"?
    >
    > http://start.csail.mit.edu/
    > http://www.cl.uni-bremen.de/~stefan/Babel/Interaktiv/
    >
    > Back to "topic":
    > If you, robin, succeed in writing a programming language that is a
    > natural language, and if the semantics of your programming language are
    > the same as that of this natural language, and if you have a system that
    > acts according to these semantics, then you have solved the problem of
    > understanding natural language, made declarative programming a bliss and
    > many linguists out there unemployed. By applying a bit of indirection,
    > you could use the Universal Grammar and become language independent. Nice.
    >
    > Of course, you may want to take a look at formalisms for natural
    > languages, some of which are HPSG, The MP, GB and LFG. For the
    > Semantics-part, what about DRT, or MRS?
    > Good luck


    To say nothing of some of the Lingua modules already written in Perl.
    Some of which even allow you to program in Perl quite well by using Latin.

    -ceo
    (Not Caesar E. Octavius)
     
    ChrisO, Aug 23, 2005
    #10
  11. robin

    robin Guest

    well, thanks for all the replies. I've given up on the idea for now
    since I'm not even close to the level I need to be to get the language
    programmed.
    I might try it at a later time.
    Peace,
    -robin
     
    robin, Aug 25, 2005
    #11
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