I love VHDL!!!

Discussion in 'VHDL' started by Matt North, Jun 14, 2004.

  1. Matt North

    Matt North Guest

    Just wondered if this thread will grow as large as its mirror!!!

    The question is do I love VHDL too much?
    I find that when given a project I will immediately find a way of doing in
    VHDL, I don't even
    spare I thought to the microprocessor (probably cos my C is no where near as
    good as my VHDL :) )

    When my micro buddy asks why I don't use a PIC or something similar, I tell
    him that if I wanted a PIC
    I would write a PIC architecture in VHDL and use that!!! (tongue in cheek)

    Surely I am becoming a VHDL nut, what am I missing out on by looking at
    FPGA/CPLDs to do everything??

    Comments welcome,

    Matt
     
    Matt North, Jun 14, 2004
    #1
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  2. Matt North

    DrB Guest

    As is said about Jazz "If you gotta ask you ain't got it"

    Additionally, non-technical humour is outwith the scope of this newsgroup

    Regards

    DrB

    "Matt North" <m.r.w.north@NO_SPAMrl.ac.uk> wrote in message
    news:cakibr$...
    > Just wondered if this thread will grow as large as its mirror!!!
    >
    > The question is do I love VHDL too much?
    > I find that when given a project I will immediately find a way of doing in
    > VHDL, I don't even
    > spare I thought to the microprocessor (probably cos my C is no where near

    as
    > good as my VHDL :) )
    >
    > When my micro buddy asks why I don't use a PIC or something similar, I

    tell
    > him that if I wanted a PIC
    > I would write a PIC architecture in VHDL and use that!!! (tongue in cheek)
    >
    > Surely I am becoming a VHDL nut, what am I missing out on by looking at
    > FPGA/CPLDs to do everything??
    >
    > Comments welcome,
    >
    > Matt
    >
    >
     
    DrB, Jun 14, 2004
    #2
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  3. Matt North

    VhdlCohen Guest

    I see a lot changes in the design and verification effort, and VHDL is only a
    small aspect of the picture. Assertion-Based Verification (ABV) with languages
    like PSL or SystemVerilog are gaining popularity. PSL supports Verilog and
    VHDL and is used to specify requirements at the top level and interface levels,
    along with design properties for the RTL level. PSL follows many of the rules
    of the native language that it supports. Many engineers feel that VHDL is
    restrictive for verification because it lacks the ability to traverse levels of
    design hierarchy, and to read output ports, both needed for PSL or for regular
    testbench designs. Those engineers "hate" those aspects of the VHDL, and
    prefer Verilog.
    VHDL200x provides many improvements in VHDL, including traversing the
    hierarchy, reading output ports, interfaces, and support of PSL. For the
    record, SystemVerilog 3.1a LRM is out (http://www.accellera.org/), and many
    tool vendors are beginning to support it -- a very important factor.
    SystemVerilog provides several features in the field of design and
    verification, including an agressive assertion language, though comparable in
    many respects to PSL.

    <Surely I am becoming a VHDL nut...>
    My suggestion before becoming a VHDL nut is to look at the whole design
    environment, and languages that support this environment (now and in the
    future). You may change your views on what "nut" to like.
    :) Ben
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ben Cohen Trainer, Consultant, Publisher (310) 721-4830
    http://www.vhdlcohen.com/
    Author of following textbooks:
    * Using PSL/SUGAR for Formal and Dynamic Verification 2nd Edition, 2004 isbn
    0-9705394-6-0
    * Real Chip Design and Verification Using Verilog and VHDL, 2002 isbn
    0-9705394-2-8
    * Component Design by Example ", 2001 isbn 0-9705394-0-1
    * VHDL Coding Styles and Methodologies, 2nd Edition, 1999 isbn 0-7923-8474-1
    * VHDL Answers to Frequently Asked Questions, 2nd Edition, isbn 0-7923-8115
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    VhdlCohen, Jun 14, 2004
    #3
  4. Matt North

    Ken Smith Guest

    In article <cakibr$>,
    Matt North <m.r.w.north@NO_SPAMrl.ac.uk> wrote:
    >Just wondered if this thread will grow as large as its mirror!!!
    >
    >The question is do I love VHDL too much?


    Yes. If you can say you love a technology of any kind, chances are you've
    gone too far.


    >I find that when given a project I will immediately find a way of doing in
    >VHDL,


    I own a good hammer so everything I need to work on is a nail.


    > I don't even
    >spare I thought to the microprocessor (probably cos my C is no where near as
    >good as my VHDL :) )


    Chances are, you should be using ASM in the micro. In many cases it is
    easier to produce a working product that way.

    >When my micro buddy asks why I don't use a PIC or something similar, I tell
    >him that if I wanted a PIC
    >I would write a PIC architecture in VHDL and use that!!! (tongue in cheek)


    Why write it? I'm sure you can get/buy it somewhere.


    --
    --
    forging knowledge
     
    Ken Smith, Jun 15, 2004
    #4
  5. Matt North

    Matt North Guest

    > >The question is do I love VHDL too much?
    >
    > Yes. If you can say you love a technology of any kind, chances are you've
    > gone too far.


    Ken, as you might imagine i meant 'love' in a technical admiration sense.
    I am not about to book a romantic weekend away with my FPGA!!! ;-}

    > >I find that when given a project I will immediately find a way of doing

    in
    > >VHDL,

    >
    > I own a good hammer so everything I need to work on is a nail.


    I own a bog standard hammer, are you suggesting i buy a 'good hammer'?



    "Ken Smith" <> wrote in message
    news:calb2k$k9m$...
    > In article <cakibr$>,
    > Matt North <m.r.w.north@NO_SPAMrl.ac.uk> wrote:
    > >Just wondered if this thread will grow as large as its mirror!!!
    > >
    > >The question is do I love VHDL too much?

    >
    > Yes. If you can say you love a technology of any kind, chances are you've
    > gone too far.
    >
    >
    > >I find that when given a project I will immediately find a way of doing

    in
    > >VHDL,

    >
    > I own a good hammer so everything I need to work on is a nail.
    >
    >
    > > I don't even
    > >spare I thought to the microprocessor (probably cos my C is no where near

    as
    > >good as my VHDL :) )

    >
    > Chances are, you should be using ASM in the micro. In many cases it is
    > easier to produce a working product that way.
    >
    > >When my micro buddy asks why I don't use a PIC or something similar, I

    tell
    > >him that if I wanted a PIC
    > >I would write a PIC architecture in VHDL and use that!!! (tongue in

    cheek)
    >
    > Why write it? I'm sure you can get/buy it somewhere.
    >
    >
    > --
    > --
    > forging knowledge
    >
     
    Matt North, Jun 15, 2004
    #5
  6. Matt North

    Uncle Noah Guest

    "Matt North" <m.r.w.north@NO_SPAMrl.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<cam7j6$>...
    > > >The question is do I love VHDL too much?


    I am also a VHDL afficionado, but you seem to exaggerate...
    The only strong point for Verilog is tool/vendor support when dealing
    with ASIC processes. Good market adoption makes it a success but not a
    good language (VHDL is a success too, in several occasions). This is
    similar to a particular desktop processor tale!

    > > >I find that when given a project I will immediately find a way of doing

    > in VHDL,

    Extravaganza! I am also an extreme coder. Last week, i finished a
    rather complex design (a complicated program control unit adapted to
    an academic microprocessor). My boss/supervisor never thought that i
    would make it without spending much time with the spec. In reality,
    the spec evolved with the code... Not to mention picturing whole
    schematics from the plain code (like visualizing the world of Matrix
    from its code!).

    However... this is not the right way... only a way to get things right
    :)

    Never a supervisor will accept this fact. But he hasn't written any
    code since Argentina won the World Cup!

    > > >I would write a PIC architecture in VHDL and use that!!! (tongue in

    > cheek)
    > > Why write it? I'm sure you can get/buy it somewhere.


    Here, my friend Matt you are very wrong. Your position is the hobbyist
    one.

    Simple plain logic determines that reinventing the wheel is not a good
    marketing option.

    The fact is that there are companies that redesign old micros like
    Z80, or even the 8051. Several of these new designs are pipelined
    versions of the old ones. I hope that your job requires redesigning a
    PIC. Or that this is your hobby.


    Uncle "The G.B. Man" Noah
     
    Uncle Noah, Jun 15, 2004
    #6
  7. Matt North

    Matt North Guest

    Uncle,

    > I am also a VHDL afficionado, but you seem to exaggerate...


    Maybee ;-)

    In reality,
    > the spec evolved with the code... Not to mention picturing whole
    > schematics from the plain code


    This is one of the things i like about VHDL, you can split code into
    'logical' (not in the 74xx sense) blocks
    and instantiate them as components in the top level design. I find this
    makes life so much easier when testing.
    I can visualise where a problem might be and partition the design by
    removing components or plugging new
    components in and watching the results.

    > Here, my friend Matt you are very wrong. Your position is the hobbyist
    > one.
    >
    > Simple plain logic determines that reinventing the wheel is not a good
    > marketing option.


    You are right, i suppose i would be classed as a hobbyist. The company i
    work does not sell any electronics,
    it sells a service to international scientists that visit our facility. I am
    employed to design and build diagnostics
    and control equipment for the machine, therfore i have no time to market and
    i am given free reign as to how
    the design is implemented.

    I realise that for companies that market their designs, simulation may take
    longer than the coding. This would
    be impossible for myself, the code is only 50% of what i do, i still have
    the schematic, pcb and chassis drawings
    to design and then testing, installation, commissioning and instrument
    support.

    Matt
     
    Matt North, Jun 16, 2004
    #7
  8. Matt North

    Ken Smith Guest

    In article <cam7j6$>,
    Matt North <m.r.w.north@NO_SPAMrl.ac.uk> wrote:
    [....]
    >I own a bog standard hammer, are you suggesting i buy a 'good hammer'?


    I have a nice one that is about a 25 pounder. Its XP compatible.

    --
    --
    forging knowledge
     
    Ken Smith, Jun 16, 2004
    #8
  9. Matt North

    Matt North Guest

    > I have a nice one that is about a 25 pounder. Its XP compatible.

    Sounds good........i'm seriously thinking of upgrading to a THOR AP12
    Aluminium and plastic hammer.
    It gives the user a choice of persuasive use with the plastic head or
    destruction with the aluminium head.

    "Ken Smith" <> wrote in message
    news:caq66h$shf$...
    > In article <cam7j6$>,
    > Matt North <m.r.w.north@NO_SPAMrl.ac.uk> wrote:
    > [....]
    > >I own a bog standard hammer, are you suggesting i buy a 'good hammer'?

    >
    > I have a nice one that is about a 25 pounder. Its XP compatible.
    >
    > --
    > --
    > forging knowledge
    >
     
    Matt North, Jun 17, 2004
    #9
  10. Matt North

    Ken Smith Guest

    In article <carh6s$>,
    Matt North <m.r.w.north@NO_SPAMrl.ac.uk> wrote:
    >> I have a nice one that is about a 25 pounder. Its XP compatible.

    >
    >Sounds good........i'm seriously thinking of upgrading to a THOR AP12
    >Aluminium and plastic hammer.
    >It gives the user a choice of persuasive use with the plastic head or
    >destruction with the aluminium head.


    Now that THOR inc. has been bought out by McDisneyMart Corp. they import
    cheap junk and put their label on it. If the head isn't hand forged it
    won't completely uninstall XP from the hard disk.

    --
    --
    forging knowledge
     
    Ken Smith, Jun 18, 2004
    #10
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