I'd like to try Perl...

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by Peter Percival, May 20, 2013.

  1. I'd like to try Perl on Win 7 and according to this:
    http://www.perl.org/get.html, it's a choice between ActiveState,
    Strawberry and DWIM. Any advice on choosing between them would be welcome.
    Peter Percival, May 20, 2013
    #1
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  2. Peter Percival

    Dr.Ruud Guest

    On 20/05/2013 16:04, Peter Percival wrote:

    > I'd like to try Perl on Win 7 and according to this:
    > http://www.perl.org/get.html, it's a choice between ActiveState,
    > Strawberry and DWIM. Any advice on choosing between them would be welcome.


    Consider CitrusPerl as well, as it includes Wx + DBI.
    http://www.citrusperl.com/

    StrawberryPerl already provides 5.18.0.1.

    CitrusPerl is at 5.16.3.

    --
    Ruud
    Dr.Ruud, May 20, 2013
    #2
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  3. Peter Percival

    Marc Girod Guest

    On May 20, 3:04 pm, Peter Percival <> wrote:
    > I'd like to try Perl on Win 7 and according to this:http://www.perl.org/get.html, it's a choice between ActiveState,
    > Strawberry and DWIM.  Any advice on choosing between them would be welcome.


    ActivePerl is compiled with a Microsoft compiler (the Visual C++
    Express Edition is available for free), and Strawberry with a bundled
    gcc.
    This will impact the ease with which CPAN modules interfacing with
    shared libraries will drop.

    Note also the Cygwin option...

    Marc
    Marc Girod, May 20, 2013
    #3
  4. Marc Girod wrote:
    > On May 20, 3:04 pm, Peter Percival <> wrote:
    >> I'd like to try Perl on Win 7 and according to this:http://www.perl.org/get.html, it's a choice between ActiveState,
    >> Strawberry and DWIM. Any advice on choosing between them would be welcome.

    >
    > ActivePerl is compiled with a Microsoft compiler (the Visual C++
    > Express Edition is available for free


    I didn't know that. Thank you for drawing my attention to it.

    > ), and Strawberry with a bundled
    > gcc.
    > This will impact the ease with which CPAN modules interfacing with
    > shared libraries will drop.


    Maybe both then!

    > Note also the Cygwin option...
    >
    > Marc
    >
    Peter Percival, May 20, 2013
    #4
  5. Peter Percival

    John Black Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Note also the Cygwin option...


    Yeah, spend a few minutes checking out the cygwin environment. I started with Strawberry
    Perl and ended up removing it and installing cygwin. You get perl and tons more if you want.
    You choose what you want installed or not installed but what you end up with is an
    environment and set of tools that looks like and includes most of what you get with Unix. In
    fact, when I'm in a cygwin terminal, I can pretty much behave as if its a unix window and
    everything seems to work as I expect.

    John Black
    John Black, May 21, 2013
    #5
  6. Marc Girod wrote:

    > Note also the Cygwin option...


    I have Cygwin and did not realize that Perl was included :). I suspect
    that's true of a lot of Cygwin things.

    --
    I think I am an Elephant,
    Behind another Elephant
    Behind /another/ Elephant who isn't really there....
    A.A. Milne
    Peter Percival, May 22, 2013
    #6
  7. Peter Percival wrote:
    > I'd like to try Perl on Win 7 and according to this:
    > http://www.perl.org/get.html, it's a choice between ActiveState,
    > Strawberry and DWIM. Any advice on choosing between them would be welcome.


    I have "Learning Perl on Win32 Systems" by Schwartz, Olson and
    Christiansen. It's the right level for me, but I need something for
    Windows 7 specifically, and suggestions?

    --
    I think I am an Elephant,
    Behind another Elephant
    Behind /another/ Elephant who isn't really there....
    A.A. Milne
    Peter Percival, May 24, 2013
    #7
  8. Peter Percival <> wrote:
    >Peter Percival wrote:
    >> I'd like to try Perl on Win 7 and according to this:
    >> http://www.perl.org/get.html, it's a choice between ActiveState,
    >> Strawberry and DWIM. Any advice on choosing between them would be welcome.

    >
    >I have "Learning Perl on Win32 Systems" by Schwartz, Olson and
    >Christiansen. It's the right level for me, but I need something for
    >Windows 7 specifically,


    Luckily Perl is blissfully independant and ignorant of any OS version.
    Therefore unless you are doing some very specialized coding for a
    specific OS-version there is no need for any OS-version specific
    learning.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, May 24, 2013
    #8
  9. Jürgen Exner wrote:
    > Peter Percival <> wrote:
    >> Peter Percival wrote:
    >>> I'd like to try Perl on Win 7 and according to this:
    >>> http://www.perl.org/get.html, it's a choice between ActiveState,
    >>> Strawberry and DWIM. Any advice on choosing between them would be welcome.

    >>
    >> I have "Learning Perl on Win32 Systems" by Schwartz, Olson and
    >> Christiansen. It's the right level for me, but I need something for
    >> Windows 7 specifically,

    >
    > Luckily Perl is blissfully independant and ignorant of any OS version.
    > Therefore unless you are doing some very specialized coding for a
    > specific OS-version there is no need for any OS-version specific
    > learning.


    Strawberry 5.16 seems not to understand

    use Win32::NetAdmin;

    I guess that's because Win 7 doesn't have a Win32, but I may have
    misunderstood.

    --
    I think I am an Elephant,
    Behind another Elephant
    Behind /another/ Elephant who isn't really there....
    A.A. Milne
    Peter Percival, May 24, 2013
    #9
  10. try trannies too
    johannes falcone, Jun 7, 2013
    #10
  11. Peter Percival

    David Combs Guest

    In article <-september.org>,
    John Black <> wrote:
    >In article <>,
    > says...
    >> Note also the Cygwin option...

    >
    >Yeah, spend a few minutes checking out the cygwin environment. I started with Strawberry
    >Perl and ended up removing it and installing cygwin. You get perl and tons more if you want.
    >You choose what you want installed or not installed but what you end up with is an
    >environment and set of tools that looks like and includes most of what you get with Unix. In
    >fact, when I'm in a cygwin terminal, I can pretty much behave as if its a unix window and
    >everything seems to work as I expect.
    >
    >John Black


    Sorry, I use cygwin (via *shell* in emacs), but I don't know
    what this "cygwin terminal" is. I probably would benefit
    from it!

    Any comments or help on it? Thanks!


    ---


    One problem I have is getting the *cygwin* shell stuff to work:
    (this is from some time ago, so I might have forgotten
    a bit of what I did):

    I (thought I) found that if I wanted to use pipes, variables,
    etc within a cygwin shell (sh, tcsh (I believe), etc), then
    I was required to use that horrible windows "cmd" black-and-white
    window, which was really, really gross.

    One problem I had was that I could not prepare IN EMACS a command
    to execute there, and paste that command into that
    horrible cmd window. Could only type it in there by hand,
    character by character.

    Likewise, I think I recall, it was difficult or impossible
    to "copy" text from within that window (for pasting elsewhere);
    copying and pasting simply didn't work in cmd windows.

    Question: have you found a way to run cygwin shells, etc,
    other than within a cmd window?

    Question: have you found a way TO do copy, paste, etc
    with a cmd window?

    And, generally, how do people run the cygwin shells?
    In what environment?


    Question: how do they get the full features of one
    of those shells to work, within emacs? Within, say,
    *shell* or *eshell*?



    THANKS MUCH FOR ANY HELP!

    David
    David Combs, Jul 3, 2013
    #11
  12. Peter Percival

    pepa Guest

    3.7.2013 13:48, Ben Morrow kirjoitti:
    > This is completely OT, but...
    >
    > Quoth (David Combs):
    >>
    >> Sorry, I use cygwin (via *shell* in emacs), but I don't know
    >> what this "cygwin terminal" is. I probably would benefit
    >> from it!

    >
    > I believe it's just a cmd window running a Cygwin shell.


    You seem to be trying to guess, Ben, in a way that is not very helpful.
    Not this this time anyway.

    There are multiple issues at hand here. For one, the "cygwin terminal"
    that I would recommend is mintty.exe, which comes with cygwin by
    default or bash.exe or any other shell executable, but mintty nowadays
    is the recommended one. Next, my guess is that David either has not
    found a way to configure Emacs to use a cygwin shell inside Emacs
    – or David is using NTEmacs, not the emacs that comes with cygwin,
    and therefore has the problem described in
    http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/NTEmacsWithCygwin#toc1. Since this
    problem appeared, it has
    been a pain to use any of the cygwin shells inside Emacs.
    It is easier to open a separate window for command line stuff,
    and for that purpose, I'd recommend mintty. But that's a matter
    of taste.

    In any case, the David's guestion doesn't belong here.
    pepa, Jul 3, 2013
    #12
  13. >Quoth (David Combs):Ben Morrow <> wrote:
    >> I was required to use that horrible windows "cmd" black-and-white
    >> window, which was really, really gross.


    Right-click on title bar, "Properties" -> tab "Colors".

    >> Likewise, I think I recall, it was difficult or impossible
    >> to "copy" text from within that window (for pasting elsewhere);
    >> copying and pasting simply didn't work in cmd windows.


    Change settings once by right-click, "Properties", tab "Options", "Quick
    Edit Mode".
    Then highlight text by dragging the cursor over the text, copy
    highlighted text by hitting "Enter", pasting from clipboard by mouse
    right-click.

    A typical case of know how to use your tools. CMD/BAT is certainly a
    poor command language, but you shouldn't blame the tool for the problem
    that is between chair and keyboard.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Jul 3, 2013
    #13
  14. Peter Percival

    pepa Guest

    Seconf attempt. Sorry Ben for sending privately. Meant to usenet.

    3.7.2013 19:45, Ben Morrow kirjoitti:
    >
    > Last time I used Cygwin (quite a while ago now) the 'Cygwin shell' link
    > installed on the Start Menu just opened a cmd window running Cygwin
    > bash. IIRC there were other options available--some sort of rxvt
    > port?--but they didn't work right. Pipes, in particular, tended to
    > misbehave.


    Must e very very long ago, because I've never seen Cygwin providing cmd
    by default. When I began with cygwin, the main interface was a bat that
    invokes bash. It's still there but now the entry that the installer adds
    to start menu invokes mintty.

    >> There are multiple issues at hand here. For one, the "cygwin terminal"
    >> that I would recommend is mintty.exe, which comes with cygwin by
    >> default or bash.exe or any other shell executable, but mintty nowadays
    >> is the recommended one.

    >
    > Am I to assume from this that the 'no ptys' issue has been solved, or
    > worked around, and that mintty is a terminal emulator that works? Or is
    > it just a shell?


    Now there is mintty, which provides better window management, but mintty
    is not a shell (and you would not want to use it inside emacs, which I
    should have already pointed out, but then, this is not an emacs forum).
    I have never had pipe problems with cygwin, and I have no idea of what
    you refer to when you talk about "the 'no ptys' issue". Which probably
    just means you are more skillful than I am.

    My best guess is still that David has not told Emacs which shell to run
    when he wants shell. How to do that belogns to an emacs forum, not here,
    however.
    pepa, Jul 3, 2013
    #14
  15. Peter Percival

    John Black Guest

    In article <kr02ei$bv7$>, says...
    >
    > In article <-september.org>,
    > John Black <> wrote:
    > >In article <>,
    > > says...
    > >> Note also the Cygwin option...

    > >
    > >Yeah, spend a few minutes checking out the cygwin environment. I started with Strawberry
    > >Perl and ended up removing it and installing cygwin. You get perl and tons more if you want.
    > >You choose what you want installed or not installed but what you end up with is an
    > >environment and set of tools that looks like and includes most of what you get with Unix. In
    > >fact, when I'm in a cygwin terminal, I can pretty much behave as if its a unix window and
    > >everything seems to work as I expect.
    > >
    > >John Black

    >
    > Sorry, I use cygwin (via *shell* in emacs), but I don't know
    > what this "cygwin terminal" is. I probably would benefit
    > from it!


    We may be talking different languages but I will try to help. I don't know what "use cygwin
    via shell in emacs" even means. I don't use emacs so that is perhaps why. But I've
    installed cygwin and as part of that I got something (icon on my desktop) called Cygwin
    Terminal. When I start one (and I can open as many as I want), I get a terminal running
    bash. It runs bash by default but I think there is a way to run different shells. Like I
    said, when I am in one of these terminals, its just like I'm running unix or linux.

    > Any comments or help on it? Thanks!
    >
    >
    > ---
    >
    >
    > One problem I have is getting the *cygwin* shell stuff to work:
    > (this is from some time ago, so I might have forgotten
    > a bit of what I did):
    >
    > I (thought I) found that if I wanted to use pipes, variables,
    > etc within a cygwin shell (sh, tcsh (I believe), etc), then
    > I was required to use that horrible windows "cmd" black-and-white
    > window, which was really, really gross.


    Nope. You are right, that windows cmd window is crap. Thankfully I don't have to use it
    since I have the cygwin terminal.

    > One problem I had was that I could not prepare IN EMACS a command
    > to execute there, and paste that command into that
    > horrible cmd window. Could only type it in there by hand,
    > character by character.


    The cygwin terminal works just as many other unix terminal programs. Select a bunch of text
    with the mouse. (and yes, you can select more than what fits on one screen Ben). Then
    middle mouse button to paste. Easy.

    > Likewise, I think I recall, it was difficult or impossible
    > to "copy" text from within that window (for pasting elsewhere);
    > copying and pasting simply didn't work in cmd windows.


    Copy paste in a cmd window is a pain, yes. Fortunately, we don't need cmd windows.

    > Question: have you found a way to run cygwin shells, etc,
    > other than within a cmd window?


    yes. see above.

    > Question: have you found a way TO do copy, paste, etc
    > with a cmd window?


    yes, see above.

    > And, generally, how do people run the cygwin shells?
    > In what environment?


    I wish I knew what I did that you didn't do? How long has it been since you installed it?
    When you install, make sure you have everything in the package called "Base".

    > Question: how do they get the full features of one
    > of those shells to work, within emacs? Within, say,
    > *shell* or *eshell*?


    This I can't help with since I don't use emacs. I use Zues or vi.

    John Black
    John Black, Jul 5, 2013
    #15
  16. Peter Percival

    John Black Guest

    In article <>, says...
    >
    > This is completely OT, but...
    >
    > Quoth (David Combs):
    > >
    > > Sorry, I use cygwin (via *shell* in emacs), but I don't know
    > > what this "cygwin terminal" is. I probably would benefit
    > > from it!

    >
    > I believe it's just a cmd window running a Cygwin shell.
    >
    > > One problem I have is getting the *cygwin* shell stuff to work:
    > > (this is from some time ago, so I might have forgotten
    > > a bit of what I did):
    > >
    > > I (thought I) found that if I wanted to use pipes, variables,
    > > etc within a cygwin shell (sh, tcsh (I believe), etc), then
    > > I was required to use that horrible windows "cmd" black-and-white
    > > window, which was really, really gross.

    >
    > This is expected on Windows. Because Windows doesn't have ptys, and
    > makes some distinction between 'console' and 'gui' applications, and for
    > other reasons I can't remember, it's never worth using any sort of
    > terminal emulator other than cmd.exe. They just never work properly.
    >
    > (And cmd isn't *that* bad, at least if you make the font a bit bigger.
    > It's not what I'd call pleasant, but it's not unusable.)
    >
    > > One problem I had was that I could not prepare IN EMACS a command
    > > to execute there, and paste that command into that
    > > horrible cmd window. Could only type it in there by hand,
    > > character by character.
    > >
    > > Likewise, I think I recall, it was difficult or impossible
    > > to "copy" text from within that window (for pasting elsewhere);
    > > copying and pasting simply didn't work in cmd windows.

    >
    > Copy and paste in cmd.exe are found on the right-click menu on the icon
    > in the top-left of the window. (Yes, this is weird.) Copying is a
    > two-step process: first choose right-click/Edit/Mark, then select the
    > text you want to copy, then right-click/Edit/Copy. IIRC you can't copy
    > more than one (visible) screenful at a time.


    Ug. Cygwin now comes with a cygwin terminal. You don't need cmd which sucks for copy paste
    and everything else.

    > > And, generally, how do people run the cygwin shells?
    > > In what environment?

    >
    > I stay as far away from Cygwin as possible. IME it has all the bugs of
    > Windows plus a whole lot more of its own.


    I really like it. How long since you've tried it?

    > > Question: how do they get the full features of one
    > > of those shells to work, within emacs? Within, say,
    > > *shell* or *eshell*?

    >
    > They don't. It can't be done on Windows, since there aren't any ptys.


    Its been done. cygwin has it.

    John Black
    John Black, Jul 5, 2013
    #16
  17. Peter Percival

    Tim McDaniel Guest

    Catching up on the newsgroup.

    In article <>,
    Ben Morrow <> wrote:
    >Hmm, glancing at that just confirms my opinion: mixing native Win32
    >facilities with ported-from-Unix facilities with Cygwin facilities
    >just leads to worlds of pain. Since, IME, native Win32 facilities
    >cannot be avoided entirely, this makes using Cygwin an exercise in
    >hacking around compatibility problems.


    In my long experience with Cygwin, I use it for file processing (perl
    and sed and pipes and such) and running some commands that it provides
    (ssh, for example). I don't know what "Win32 facilities" might refer
    to, but when it comes to files and using drive letters, Cygwin has
    been perfectly usable.

    From just the other replies I've seen, much of your other knowledge
    is outdated or incomplete.

    --
    Tim McDaniel,
    Tim McDaniel, Jul 12, 2013
    #17
  18. Peter Percival

    Tim McDaniel Guest

    In article <>,
    Ben Morrow <> wrote:
    >
    >Quoth :
    >> Catching up on the newsgroup.
    >>
    >> In article <>,
    >> Ben Morrow <> wrote:
    >> >Hmm, glancing at that just confirms my opinion: mixing native Win32
    >> >facilities with ported-from-Unix facilities with Cygwin facilities
    >> >just leads to worlds of pain. Since, IME, native Win32 facilities
    >> >cannot be avoided entirely, this makes using Cygwin an exercise in
    >> >hacking around compatibility problems.

    >>
    >> In my long experience with Cygwin, I use it for file processing (perl
    >> and sed and pipes and such) and running some commands that it provides
    >> (ssh, for example). I don't know what "Win32 facilities" might refer
    >> to, but when it comes to files and using drive letters, Cygwin has
    >> been perfectly usable.

    >
    >Programs which are not Cygwin programs, and don't understand Cygwin
    >paths.


    In practice, I haven't had much need for them, other than
    double-clicking applications which therefore don't interact with
    Cgywin at all, or just typing them at the Cygwin shell. But on the
    command line,

    ... $(cygpath -w /some/cygwin/path) ...

    produces something along the lines of

    ... C:\some\cygwin\path ...

    --
    Tim McDaniel,
    Tim McDaniel, Jul 12, 2013
    #18
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