IDE favorite

Discussion in 'Java' started by ed collins, Jul 8, 2003.

  1. ed collins

    ed collins Guest

    I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
    is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?

    Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.

    ed.
    ed collins, Jul 8, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. ed collins

    dada rara Guest

    Agree on that, finding new useful features every day:

    Wizards for creating many different types of files (java, jsp, xsl, xml, jar
    etc etc)
    Ant integration
    CVS integration
    XSL tag completion
    XSLT
    DB browser
    WAR creation
    JAR creation
    "Automatic" JavaDoc
    Internalisation help (property files)
    Tag libraries support

    much much more

    One weak side when working with complex projects, no easy way of specifying
    multiple build paths...

    d.

    "Eric Olander" <> wrote in message
    news:nOAOa.89507$...
    > I don't know if its the most popular, but the NetBeans IDE is good (and
    > free). See www.netbeans.org.
    >
    > -Eric
    >
    > "ed collins" <> wrote in message
    > news:Z8AOa.8335$N7.1053@sccrnsc03...
    > > I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP.

    What
    > > is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
    > >
    > > Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
    > >
    > > ed.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    dada rara, Jul 8, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. ed collins

    dada rara Guest

    .... and no Refactoring support :-(

    "dada rara" <> wrote in message
    news:beem0a$43rbv$...
    > Agree on that, finding new useful features every day:
    >
    > Wizards for creating many different types of files (java, jsp, xsl, xml,

    jar
    > etc etc)
    > Ant integration
    > CVS integration
    > XSL tag completion
    > XSLT
    > DB browser
    > WAR creation
    > JAR creation
    > "Automatic" JavaDoc
    > Internalisation help (property files)
    > Tag libraries support
    >
    > much much more
    >
    > One weak side when working with complex projects, no easy way of

    specifying
    > multiple build paths...
    >
    > d.
    >
    > "Eric Olander" <> wrote in message
    > news:nOAOa.89507$...
    > > I don't know if its the most popular, but the NetBeans IDE is good (and
    > > free). See www.netbeans.org.
    > >
    > > -Eric
    > >
    > > "ed collins" <> wrote in message
    > > news:Z8AOa.8335$N7.1053@sccrnsc03...
    > > > I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP.

    > What
    > > > is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
    > > >
    > > > Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
    > > >
    > > > ed.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    dada rara, Jul 8, 2003
    #3
  4. i use an editor (vim, but xemacs works too, or any source code editor)
    + ant (ant.apache.org) for building/cvs/...
    + cvs (better, but will take some time to get used to)

    free, multiplatform,
    IMHO the best way to learn (no flame).

    paul.


    ed collins wrote:
    > I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
    > is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
    >
    > Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
    >
    > ed.
    >
    >
    >
    Paul Guermonprez, Jul 8, 2003
    #4
  5. ed collins

    Guest

    > I'm a college student and am in the process of learning
    > Java and OOP. What is the most popular IDE to create
    > Java programs?


    I highly recommend JCreator.
    , Jul 8, 2003
    #5
  6. ed collins

    Steve Guest

    I'd totaly agree - use a basic text editor for learning Java. If you
    want nice colours for keywords etc then use something like EditPlus or
    TextPad - search the web for free/shareware tools.

    A good IDE will do a lot of the work for you, which totaly defeats the
    object [no pun intended] of learning the language. I also do not think
    you will see any productivity gain if you are working on small
    projects and building simple classes to learn features of the
    langauge. I don't think you even need source code control, but if you
    do I'd go for CVS. Any may be useful if you build a complex project
    with a lot of classes, but I don't recal a need for it when I was at
    University.

    Learn the language first, then when you want to build a production
    system look for the most suitable IDE - you'll want different IDEs for
    different environments (e.g. J2ME for a cell phone has completely
    different needs to a J2EE application, and a J2SE Swing app will be
    different again).

    I develop Java and C++ enterprise applications for a living and I use
    Notepad more than I use JBuilder and the like.

    Steve


    On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:04:14 +0200, Paul Guermonprez
    <> wrote:

    > i use an editor (vim, but xemacs works too, or any source code editor)
    >+ ant (ant.apache.org) for building/cvs/...
    >+ cvs (better, but will take some time to get used to)
    >
    >free, multiplatform,
    >IMHO the best way to learn (no flame).
    >
    >paul.
    >
    >
    >ed collins wrote:
    >> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
    >> is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
    >>
    >> Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
    >>
    >> ed.
    >>
    >>
    >>



    ~ If emailing, please use: Steve_A_Haigh
    ~ @
    ~ hotmail.com
    ~
    Steve, Jul 8, 2003
    #6
  7. ed collins

    Drew Volpe Guest

    Last time we met, ed collins <> had said:
    > I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
    > is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?



    Eclipse is probably the most popular, as it's free and has a lot
    nice features.


    My personal favorite is IntelliJ's IDEA. It has a very well
    thought out UI. It has a lot of great features like automatic
    refactoring, imports optimization, popup javadocs, etc. but
    it's all put together so that it never gets in your way and is
    quick to use. One thing I love is you can right click any
    class or method and either go to the declaration of that class/method
    or find all usages of that class/method throughout your code.



    dv

    --
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The geographical center of Boston is in Roxbury. Due north of the
    center we find the South End. This is not to be confused with South
    Boston which lies directly east from the South End. North of the South
    End is East Boston and southwest of East Boston is the North End.

    Drew Volpe, mylastname at hcs o harvard o edu
    Drew Volpe, Jul 8, 2003
    #7
  8. ed collins

    Dale King Guest

    "Steve" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'd totaly agree - use a basic text editor for learning Java. If you
    > want nice colours for keywords etc then use something like EditPlus or
    > TextPad - search the web for free/shareware tools.


    I totally disagree. And what does the poor newbie do when his program
    doesn't work since he doesn't have a debugger? Imagine the nightmare trying
    to figure out how to correctly compile a larger program spanning multiple
    packages from the command line.

    > A good IDE will do a lot of the work for you, which totaly defeats the
    > object [no pun intended] of learning the language.


    Since when is the work of building the code, part of the language? That is
    just learning a tool that is not part of the language.

    > I also do not think
    > you will see any productivity gain if you are working on small
    > projects and building simple classes to learn features of the
    > langauge. I don't think you even need source code control, but if you
    > do I'd go for CVS. Any may be useful if you build a complex project
    > with a lot of classes, but I don't recal a need for it when I was at
    > University.


    That is why most IDE's are not a good fit for learning the language. There
    is an IDE specifically designed for learning OOP and the language without
    requiring you to learn arcane command line tools. It also has a good
    debugger and facilities to help visualize the program.

    That IDE is BlueJ (www.bluej.org).

    > Learn the language first, then when you want to build a production
    > system look for the most suitable IDE - you'll want different IDEs for
    > different environments (e.g. J2ME for a cell phone has completely
    > different needs to a J2EE application, and a J2SE Swing app will be
    > different again).


    I agree. Learn the language first. That is why I recommend BlueJ. Your
    approach requires learning a tool which is essentially just a really bad
    IDE.

    > I develop Java and C++ enterprise applications for a living and I use
    > Notepad more than I use JBuilder and the like.


    It's your loss.

    --
    Dale King
    Dale King, Jul 9, 2003
    #8
  9. On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:27:27 -0500, Dale King <> wrote:

    > "ed collins" <> wrote in message
    > news:Z8AOa.8335$N7.1053@sccrnsc03...
    >> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP.
    >> What
    >> is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
    >>
    >> Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.

    >
    >
    > Most popular or favorite are irrelevant to you. You need the one that
    > will
    > best help you to learn the language and OOP. The best choice for that is
    > BlueJ (www.bluej.org).
    > --
    > Dale King
    >
    >
    >


    Thanks for the tip. I downloaded BlueJ and indeed there is much to like.

    One thing that's very irritating to me (although it would have no effect on
    the real goals of BlueJ) is that it seems that ALL Java-based test editors
    have very limited fine-grained editing features compared to native editors
    on the two GUIs I'm most familiar with, Mac and Windows. Examples:
    extending a selection by words after double-clicking a word, selecting a
    line by clicking to its left, drag-and-drop editing.

    Maybe someday someone will create a world-class editing object for Java.

    So... I do my Java work on Solaris, but the editing with JCreator. (The
    latter running on Windows. Shared files happen to be on a FreeBSD machine.)

    --Marc
    Marc Rochkind, Jul 9, 2003
    #9
  10. ed collins

    Drew Volpe Guest

    Last time we met, Marc Rochkind <> had said:


    > Thanks for the tip. I downloaded BlueJ and indeed there is much to like.
    >
    > One thing that's very irritating to me (although it would have no effect on
    > the real goals of BlueJ) is that it seems that ALL Java-based test editors
    > have very limited fine-grained editing features compared to native editors
    > on the two GUIs I'm most familiar with, Mac and Windows. Examples:
    > extending a selection by words after double-clicking a word, selecting a
    > line by clicking to its left, drag-and-drop editing.



    IDEA has of all of those and a lot of other niceties I've never
    seen in other editors. That's one of the most important things
    to me: how mature is the UI. The little things really add up
    if you're working in an application all day.


    I think JBuilder has the features you mention too, iirc.



    dv

    --
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The geographical center of Boston is in Roxbury. Due north of the
    center we find the South End. This is not to be confused with South
    Boston which lies directly east from the South End. North of the South
    End is East Boston and southwest of East Boston is the North End.

    Drew Volpe, mylastname at hcs o harvard o edu
    Drew Volpe, Jul 9, 2003
    #10
  11. ed collins

    Ken Guest

    I've been using Jedit for quite a while and I'm pretty happy with it.
    Its free and open-source.

    http://www.jedit.org

    Ken


    "ed collins" <> wrote in message news:<Z8AOa.8335$N7.1053@sccrnsc03>...
    > I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
    > is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
    >
    > Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
    >
    > ed.
    Ken, Jul 9, 2003
    #11
  12. ed collins

    Dale King Guest

    "Paul Guermonprez" <> wrote in message
    news:begjga$2m6d$...
    >
    >
    > Dale King wrote:
    > > "Steve" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >
    > >>I'd totaly agree - use a basic text editor for learning Java. If you
    > >>want nice colours for keywords etc then use something like EditPlus or
    > >>TextPad - search the web for free/shareware tools.

    >
    > vi and xemacs have wonderfull syntax highlighters and lot of features.


    Vi or emacs for a NEWBIE??! You've got to be kidding! No IDE in the world
    has as steep a learning curve as either one of them.

    > > I totally disagree. And what does the poor newbie do when his program
    > > doesn't work since he doesn't have a debugger? Imagine the nightmare

    trying
    > > to figure out how to correctly compile a larger program spanning

    multiple
    > > packages from the command line.

    >
    > i always did that way ... and i'm rather quick, for large projects too.
    > the closer you are from the code, the less you have to debug,


    Well, I'm not sure what you mean by being closer to the code. You are
    working with source code either way.

    We were talking about someone learning the language and OOP. They are very
    far from understanding the code and they have lots to debug. The use of a
    good debugger is very helpful for getting them to understand the code.

    What I see when a newbie does not have a good debugger they will resort to
    trial and error debugging. They will try things to see if it fixes it rather
    than try to actually understand what is going on.

    > and the less you have to learn how to use an ide.


    Nothing much to learn with the BlueJ IDE. Certainly much, much less than for
    using javac.

    > vi and xemacs will last for ever, even if you use
    > different languages. your ide ... i'm not sure.


    I'm sure they will last for at least a generation, until the old Unix
    hackers die off.

    > of course use ant, without ant large projects are a nightmare.
    > he don't have to use command line, ant is a good enough practice.


    For a Newbie!!?? Ant is certainly not something I would inflict on someone
    just learning the language.


    --
    Dale King
    Dale King, Jul 10, 2003
    #12
  13. ed collins

    Sudsy Guest

    Dale King wrote:
    <snip>
    > Vi or emacs for a NEWBIE??! You've got to be kidding! No IDE in the world
    > has as steep a learning curve as either one of them.


    Can I have some of those drugs you're taking?! vi has a steeper
    learning curve than IDEs?
    Seriously, most IDEs I've seen seen have multiple windows, all
    manner of screen navigations, lots of hot-keys, multiple modes,
    etc.
    vi has just two modes: insert and command. WYSIWYG and you only
    need to learn a handful of keystrokes to get started. There's
    also no requirement for a mouse, something you generally can't
    claim for those IDEs I've encountered.
    The command-line along with a simple editor is still not a bad
    way to learn Java if you have the javadocs available either in
    a book or in a browser window.
    YM obviously Vs.
    Sudsy, Jul 10, 2003
    #13
  14. ed collins

    Steve Guest

    On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:14:27 -0400, Sudsy <>
    wrote:

    >Dale King wrote:
    ><snip>
    >> Vi or emacs for a NEWBIE??! You've got to be kidding! No IDE in the world
    >> has as steep a learning curve as either one of them.

    >
    >Can I have some of those drugs you're taking?! vi has a steeper
    >learning curve than IDEs?


    Presumably, it's the Blue pill he took?

    If vi has a steep learning curve then stick to notepad, you have no
    hope of getting to grips with anything more complex. Better yet, go
    back to the abacus.

    ~ If emailing, please use: Steve_A_Haigh
    ~ @
    ~ hotmail.com
    ~
    Steve, Jul 10, 2003
    #14
  15. ed collins

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:26:05 -0500, "Dale King" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >> A good IDE will do a lot of the work for you, which totaly defeats the
    >> object [no pun intended] of learning the language.

    >
    >Since when is the work of building the code, part of the language? That is
    >just learning a tool that is not part of the language.
    >


    Not true, if you mean learning the syntax, maybe, but to learn a
    language you need to understand the interdependence between classes,
    and in any sensible application that means multiple files, you need to
    undertand how Javac picks up classes, I'd say that was part of the
    language.

    >> I also do not think
    >> you will see any productivity gain if you are working on small
    >> projects and building simple classes to learn features of the
    >> langauge. I don't think you even need source code control, but if you
    >> do I'd go for CVS. Any may be useful if you build a complex project
    >> with a lot of classes, but I don't recal a need for it when I was at
    >> University.

    >
    >That is why most IDE's are not a good fit for learning the language. There
    >is an IDE specifically designed for learning OOP and the language without
    >requiring you to learn arcane command line tools. It also has a good
    >debugger and facilities to help visualize the program.
    >
    >That IDE is BlueJ (www.bluej.org).


    I'd agree, it looks nice.
    >
    >> Learn the language first, then when you want to build a production
    >> system look for the most suitable IDE - you'll want different IDEs for
    >> different environments (e.g. J2ME for a cell phone has completely
    >> different needs to a J2EE application, and a J2SE Swing app will be
    >> different again).

    >
    >I agree. Learn the language first. That is why I recommend BlueJ. Your
    >approach requires learning a tool which is essentially just a really bad
    >IDE.
    >
    >> I develop Java and C++ enterprise applications for a living and I use
    >> Notepad more than I use JBuilder and the like.

    >
    >It's your loss.


    Not really. Unless BlueJ supports Perl, Unix scripts, C++, Java, C,
    Ada, Pascal, Assembler, C#, text (OK, it probably does this one), XML,
    HTML, JSP, ASP and SQL (T/SQL and PL/SQL) then I think I'll stick with
    my text editor thanks. In the time it takes to learn the latest and
    greatest IDE for each of these I think I will have died of boredom and
    not written any code. I use IDEs when I work full time day in day out
    in one langauge, but when I switch between langauges day to day I
    don't have time.

    By the way, I recently saw a presentation by Erich Gamma on the
    Eclipse project. That is impresive, so I'm prepared to go back on
    everything I just said when I get a chance to look at it.


    ~ If emailing, please use: Steve_A_Haigh
    ~ @
    ~ hotmail.com
    ~
    Steve, Jul 10, 2003
    #15
  16. ed collins

    Tim Tyler Guest

    Jeroen Wenting <> wrote:

    : Another nice one is Eclipse, though that might be a bit hard to set up
    : correctly for a newbie (who could quickly become frustrated by Eclipse
    : 'features' like taking a JRE instead of JDK as the default Java environment
    : (which can prevent compilation from working...).

    Eclipse has its own built-in compiler.

    Should we assume you are talking about the beginner who is calling the
    com.sun.tools.javac package to compile his own code programatically?

    I agree that Eclipse could be a PITA for a newcomer to set up, though ;-)
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/
    Tim Tyler, Jul 10, 2003
    #16
  17. most beginners i know use xemacs and are
    extremely happy with it. even for main text editing
    like reports.

    of course you have to tell them how to enable
    syntax highlighting and that sort of things ...
    xemacs is extremely user-friendly, you have a button
    for every function you need.


    Dale King wrote:
    > "Paul Guermonprez" <> wrote in message
    > news:begjga$2m6d$...
    >
    >>
    >>Dale King wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Steve" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I'd totaly agree - use a basic text editor for learning Java. If you
    >>>>want nice colours for keywords etc then use something like EditPlus or
    >>>>TextPad - search the web for free/shareware tools.

    >>
    >>vi and xemacs have wonderfull syntax highlighters and lot of features.

    >
    >
    > Vi or emacs for a NEWBIE??! You've got to be kidding! No IDE in the world
    > has as steep a learning curve as either one of them.
    >
    >
    >>>I totally disagree. And what does the poor newbie do when his program
    >>>doesn't work since he doesn't have a debugger? Imagine the nightmare

    >
    > trying
    >
    >>>to figure out how to correctly compile a larger program spanning

    >
    > multiple
    >
    >>>packages from the command line.

    >>
    >>i always did that way ... and i'm rather quick, for large projects too.
    >>the closer you are from the code, the less you have to debug,

    >
    >
    > Well, I'm not sure what you mean by being closer to the code. You are
    > working with source code either way.
    >
    > We were talking about someone learning the language and OOP. They are very
    > far from understanding the code and they have lots to debug. The use of a
    > good debugger is very helpful for getting them to understand the code.
    >
    > What I see when a newbie does not have a good debugger they will resort to
    > trial and error debugging. They will try things to see if it fixes it rather
    > than try to actually understand what is going on.
    >
    >
    >>and the less you have to learn how to use an ide.

    >
    >
    > Nothing much to learn with the BlueJ IDE. Certainly much, much less than for
    > using javac.
    >
    >
    >>vi and xemacs will last for ever, even if you use
    >>different languages. your ide ... i'm not sure.

    >
    >
    > I'm sure they will last for at least a generation, until the old Unix
    > hackers die off.
    >
    >
    >>of course use ant, without ant large projects are a nightmare.
    >>he don't have to use command line, ant is a good enough practice.

    >
    >
    > For a Newbie!!?? Ant is certainly not something I would inflict on someone
    > just learning the language.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Dale King
    >
    >
    Paul Guermonprez, Jul 10, 2003
    #17
  18. ed collins

    Jon Skeet Guest

    Steve <> wrote:
    > >> I develop Java and C++ enterprise applications for a living and I use
    > >> Notepad more than I use JBuilder and the like.

    > >
    > >It's your loss.

    >
    > Not really. Unless BlueJ supports Perl, Unix scripts, C++, Java, C,
    > Ada, Pascal, Assembler, C#, text (OK, it probably does this one), XML,
    > HTML, JSP, ASP and SQL (T/SQL and PL/SQL) then I think I'll stick with
    > my text editor thanks. In the time it takes to learn the latest and
    > greatest IDE for each of these I think I will have died of boredom and
    > not written any code. I use IDEs when I work full time day in day out
    > in one langauge, but when I switch between langauges day to day I
    > don't have time.


    Even if you're not going to use an IDE which directly knows how to
    compile/debug each of those languages, almost *any* editor is going to
    be better than Notepad. For instance, just using Eclipse and setting
    everything up as text files will give you version histories, CVS
    access, multiple buffers, etc - far better than Notepad.

    There is certainly a place for a powerful text editor in every
    developer's toolbox - but Notepad is *not* a powerful text editor.

    --
    Jon Skeet - <>
    http://www.pobox.com/~skeet/
    If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
    Jon Skeet, Jul 10, 2003
    #18
  19. ed collins

    Dale King Guest

    "Steve" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:14:27 -0400, Sudsy <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Dale King wrote:
    > ><snip>
    > >> Vi or emacs for a NEWBIE??! You've got to be kidding! No IDE in the

    world
    > >> has as steep a learning curve as either one of them.

    > >
    > >Can I have some of those drugs you're taking?! vi has a steeper
    > >learning curve than IDEs?


    Try putting someone who knows nothing about vi in front of it and ask them
    to make a few simple edits. Don't give them any documentation and see how
    long it takes them. I'm pretty sure it would be less time than doing the
    same in an IDE.

    > Presumably, it's the Blue pill he took?
    >
    > If vi has a steep learning curve


    It does have a steep learning curve. If for no other reason than the fact
    that it works totally different than any other editor out there. Your
    experience from any other editor does not help you and actually works
    against you.

    I don't want to get into VI bashing. If it works for you use it. But the
    notion that it is suitable for newbies is pure nonsense.

    > then stick to notepad,


    Actually notepad is a not good for newbies because of the chances that it
    might save your file as .java.text.

    > you have no
    > hope of getting to grips with anything more complex. Better yet, go
    > back to the abacus.


    I think you have that backwards. You were the one advocating primitive tools
    instead of an IDE sophisticated enough to help you learn the language.

    --
    Dale King
    Dale King, Jul 10, 2003
    #19
  20. ed collins

    Tim Tyler Guest

    Tim Tyler, Jul 10, 2003
    #20
    1. Advertising

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    H. Simpson, Aug 2, 2004, in forum: Ruby
    Replies:
    25
    Views:
    343
    David Ross
    Aug 10, 2004
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