IE, Firefox conflict.

[DLU]

I do not see that i>>. Where is it?


--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[dorayme]

I do not see that i>>. Where is it?

There are a few ways to get to see it.

One way is to use Firefox with the web developer tool that allows you to
look at your webpage and see both the html and css and alter either to
see the effect of your changes (something I think you would find useful
considering the troubles you have had, also not a bad learning tool in
that you can experiment a bit.)

It is possible that it would not show up on your machine? It does on
mine.

<http://dorayme.890m.com/pics/funnychar.png>

 

[DLU]

There are a few ways to get to see it.

One way is to use Firefox with the web developer tool that allows you to
look at your webpage and see both the html and css and alter either to
see the effect of your changes (something I think you would find useful
considering the troubles you have had, also not a bad learning tool in
that you can experiment a bit.)

It is possible that it would not show up on your machine? It does on
mine.

<http://dorayme.890m.com/pics/funnychar.png>

I have Expression Web, it allows me to see any of the files and to
search. I searched but did not see it.

Unfortunately I have really screwed it up for the present. I got the
center column to kine up, got rid of the big space above the banner, but
now my blocks have become extended and playing with the CSS does not
seem to help at the moment. It was fine with Firefox, but too many
people use IE. I have to use three different index files. My web page
is index.html, the club server needs to see index.asp, and just to play
with it on my machine I use index.htm.

Take a look again and see if you can figure out why the center column
wont format correctly. I think it has to do with the width. Another
thing, it was suggested I use % instead of em, but where?

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[dorayme]

dorayme wrote:
I have Expression Web, it allows me to see any of the files and to
search. I searched but did not see it.

Well, it is hard for you to know quite what to search for plus it might
very well be invisible. have you got the web developer on FF as I
suggested, it might show there for you as it did for me. But never mind
then, it is probably not your highest priority right now.

Unfortunately I have really screwed it up for the present. I got the
center column to line up, got rid of the big space above the banner, but
now my blocks have become extended and playing with the CSS does not
seem to help at the moment. It was fine with Firefox, but too many
people use IE. I have to use three different index files. My web page
is index.html, the club server needs to see index.asp, and just to play
with it on my machine I use index.htm.

Take a look again and see if you can figure out why the center column
wont format correctly. I think it has to do with the width. Another
thing, it was suggested I use % instead of em, but where?

I have looked several times, I get the urge too strongly to redo the
thing! A dangerous urge! Looks like a tightrope walk to me.

Your round corners are complicating things because you simply have to be
too careful not to disturb them. Rounded corners are something you put
on when you are happy with an otherwise robust design. This design is
not robust. Get rid of everything and simplify the whole lot. Even get
rid of the 3 col design, it is too hard for you. Use a 2 col design and
keep it simple.

Or use an HTML table and you will have an easier time.

 

[DLU]

Well, it is hard for you to know quite what to search for plus it might
very well be invisible. have you got the web developer on FF as I
suggested, it might show there for you as it did for me. But never mind
then, it is probably not your highest priority right now.


I have looked several times, I get the urge too strongly to redo the
thing! A dangerous urge! Looks like a tightrope walk to me.

Your round corners are complicating things because you simply have to be
too careful not to disturb them. Rounded corners are something you put
on when you are happy with an otherwise robust design. This design is
not robust. Get rid of everything and simplify the whole lot. Even get
rid of the 3 col design, it is too hard for you. Use a 2 col design and
keep it simple.

Or use an HTML table and you will have an easier time.

Lars did most of the work, it was really bad to start with.
The problems I was trying to correct is the difference between IE and
Firefox. I had the developer on Firefox, but the later versions will
not attach it. Anyway the Expression Web is pretty much the same.

I do have a beck up of the original but would like to find out why the
middle column will not resize. It must be in the CSS but I can not find it.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[dorayme]

Lars did most of the work, it was really bad to start with.
The problems I was trying to correct is the difference between IE and
Firefox. I had the developer on Firefox, but the later versions will
not attach it. Anyway the Expression Web is pretty much the same.

I do have a beck up of the original but would like to find out why the
middle column will not resize. It must be in the CSS but I can not find it.

Have you got the version that you put up just after Lars? The one that
does not have:

..boxed {
margin: 1pix 0 1pix 0; left: 2em;
}

(sic)

If so, put that one up.

 

[dorayme]

If so, put that one up.

I mean, put that one up for the moment and let's see. Not, put that one
up and be content.

 

[DLU]

Have you got the version that you put up just after Lars? The one that
does not have:

.boxed {
margin: 1pix 0 1pix 0; left: 2em;
}

(sic)

If so, put that one up.

The boxed CSS is one that Lars made.
Strange thing however. I have put the CSS that Lars made back in, and
the older index.html, it looks OK on my machine, but not on the web
page, even though I uploaded the files.

I have to go back over some of my work.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[dorayme]

The boxed CSS is one that Lars made.
Strange thing however. I have put the CSS that Lars made back in, and
the older index.html, it looks OK on my machine, but not on the web
page, even though I uploaded the files.

I have to go back over some of my work.

Put up the version on the server that is closest to after Lars. Gosh,
the time of Lars is becoming like some fundamental thing like 'In the
Year of our Lord' ... <g>

 

[DLU]

Put up the version on the server that is closest to after Lars. Gosh,
the time of Lars is becoming like some fundamental thing like 'In the
Year of our Lord' ... <g>

Something really strange going on. I open the page with Firefox on my
machine, it looks like the earlier version. I open it on the web page
and it is different but the index file is the same, and they look the
same in my composer?

I am getting bleary eyed. I will have to continue this tomorrow. The
earlier version is on a different machine. I may just put it up tomorrow.

It looks like the problem is with the boxed CSS.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[dorayme]

I hope Lars is OK and not been, or feeling, crucified. Er...

 

[Bergamot]

Strange thing however. I have put the CSS that Lars made back in, and
the older index.html, it looks OK on my machine, but not on the web
page, even though I uploaded the files.

Clear your cache.

 

[DLU]

Clear your cache.

I got most of it back, the problem was, for some reason the images file
had been changed by some upload I did.

Now what is left, is to get the center column to line up with the other
two columns. I suspect it has to do with hte class but not sure how to
correct it.
--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[DLU]

It looks like the problem is with the boxed CSS.

I found it.
<!-- The left column starts here-->
<div class="l" style="width: 49%; height: 1651px">
<div class="lhead">
<h2>California</h2>
The width at 50% was keeping the center column from the space and
causing it to show below the bottom of the left column.
It did not seem to make a difference with Firefox, but IE could not adjust.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[dorayme]

I found it.
<!-- The left column starts here-->
<div class="l" style="width: 49%; height: 1651px">
<div class="lhead">
<h2>California</h2>
The width at 50% was keeping the center column from the space and
causing it to show below the bottom of the left column.
It did not seem to make a difference with Firefox, but IE could not adjust.

Yes, IE6, at least, calculates width a bit differently and floats can
easily drop...

Btw, you might add a min-width to body, say of 700px; to stop a few ugly
things happening at larger fonts. And your banner does not look good
with user text large when the "California Nevada Regional Conservation
Committee" wraps, some of it to far left.

Consider playing with instead:

<div class="masthead">

<div style="float: left;"><a href="http://www.sierraclub.org/" etc
....><img src="images/weblogo_fall2002.gif" id="logo" alt="Sierra
Club"></a></div>

<div class="search">
<form etc...
</form>
</div>

<h1 style="margin-left:190px; text-align: center;">California Nevada
Regional Conservation Committee</h1>

(move my inline style out to your sheet...)

 

[DLU]

Yes, IE6, at least, calculates width a bit differently and floats can
easily drop...

Btw, you might add a min-width to body, say of 700px; to stop a few ugly
things happening at larger fonts. And your banner does not look good
with user text large when the "California Nevada Regional Conservation
Committee" wraps, some of it to far left.

Consider playing with instead:

<div class="masthead">

<div style="float: left;"><a href="http://www.sierraclub.org/" etc
...><img src="images/weblogo_fall2002.gif" id="logo" alt="Sierra
Club"></a></div>

<div class="search">
<form etc...
</form>
</div>

<h1 style="margin-left:190px; text-align: center;">California Nevada
Regional Conservation Committee</h1>

(move my inline style out to your sheet...)

I am not sure what is meant by inline style. Are you saying that
putting the width and length on individual lines rather than in CSS is
inline style?

Now, I seem to have solved the IE, Firefox conflict, the next step seems
to be getting the page to adjust to different screen sizes.

I tried playing with the masthead CSS but I can not see any difference.
problem here is the machine I am working on has 17" screen, the other
two machines have a 19" and 24" respectively.

BTW, those side white borders (pretending to be margins)

on the gray boxes are excessive at larger text sizes.
If you want these elements to scale better, use margins
instead, and use % values instead of em. Those of use who
use large default text sizes and/or smaller windows will appreciate it.

I am not sure where to start with this. If it calls for 2em, what %
should I put in its place, also does pix work better?

Finally the footer has a large gap between it and the last box on the
page. I tried putting margins in it but it did not decrease the gap by
more than a line or two.





--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[DLU]

Oh, I keep forgetting, URL
http://home.surewest.net/bikesac/bikesac/
http://clubhouse.sierraclub.org/ca/cnrcc/index.asp
(Login instructions are on upper right side of page)

***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[dorayme]

dorayme wrote: ....

I am not sure what is meant by inline style. Are you saying that
putting the width and length on individual lines rather than in CSS is
inline style?

<http://htmldog.com/guides/cssbeginner/applyingcss/>

Now, I seem to have solved the IE, Firefox conflict, the next step seems
to be getting the page to adjust to different screen sizes.

What is done is done, but in case you ever make another webpage, you
should be making these steps in the reverse order.

I tried playing with the masthead CSS but I can not see any difference.

You are saying that my alternative to your masthead does not show up any
difference on your machine when you resize text, when you alter browser
window size? Are you sure?

One of the main jobs of testing a webpage is the vigorous use of these
controls. This is like making a plane or boat and taking it out for a
test run, the more conditions you can test it in, the better. Don't take
off and rise gently into the sky and land. Don't simply do it on a sunny
day and then on a bit of a cloudy day. Take the bloody thing by the
scruff of the bloody neck and shake the hell out of it to test its
mettle.

That does not mean that you have to worry about everything that happens
at the very extremes. But it gives you a good idea of your creation.
Stop pussyfooting about! It is just testing, stomp and kick the thing
for a few minutes. Don't be so civilised about it. A good webpage likes
a bit of rough treatment.

Let me tell you, I have seen some very good webpages get together to
talk and one of the things that most often comes up in their chatter is
a real anger that users don't know how good they are. There is a deep
resentment among them that bad pages masquerade as good and cool because
they happen to be flown in mostly good weather.

problem here is the machine I am working on has 17" screen, the other
two machines have a 19" and 24" respectively.

Why is this a problem? Perhaps you are not testing correctly.

 

[DLU]

You are saying that my alternative to your masthead does not show up any
difference on your machine when you resize text, when you alter browser
window size? Are you sure?

I do not know.

One of the main jobs of testing a webpage is the vigorous use of these
controls. This is like making a plane or boat and taking it out for a
test run, the more conditions you can test it in, the better. Don't take
off and rise gently into the sky and land. Don't simply do it on a sunny
day and then on a bit of a cloudy day. Take the bloody thing by the
scruff of the bloody neck and shake the hell out of it to test its
mettle.

One step at a time. It will get thoroughly tested but in steps.

That does not mean that you have to worry about everything that happens
at the very extremes. But it gives you a good idea of your creation.
Stop pussyfooting about! It is just testing, stomp and kick the thing
for a few minutes. Don't be so civilised about it. A good webpage likes
a bit of rough treatment.

I was an ailing radio shop superintendent many years ago. I know how to
run full tests but you fix the easiest things first. The first step is
to get it to run so that you can see the errors..

Let me tell you, I have seen some very good webpages get together to
talk and one of the things that most often comes up in their chatter is
a real anger that users don't know how good they are. There is a deep
resentment among them that bad pages masquerade as good and cool because
they happen to be flown in mostly good weather.


Why is this a problem? Perhaps you are not testing correctly.

Could be. I really do not like changing screen resolutions if it is not
necessary. Not too many people are using 600 X 800 any more but I will
test for it.

--
***************************************
* This is the Spammish Inquisition *
* Not Lumber Cartel Unit 75 [TINLC] *
* I am not SPEWS.ORG *
***************************************

 

[dorayme]

Why is this a problem? Perhaps you are not testing correctly.

Could be. I really do not like changing screen resolutions if it is not
necessary. Not too many people are using 600 X 800 any more but I will
test for it.[/QUOTE]

Nothing to do with screen resolutions. The only tests I was talking
about were at your fingertips, text size and browser size. If you want
help on how to operate these controls on your browser, please ask. Name
the browser and I will try to help.