iframe or what?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by richard, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. richard

    richard Guest

    http://oldies.littleworldofours.com/home.html

    This will be my home page. What I was thinking of doing was to leave
    the page as is, then change only the center division as needed.
    How would I best approach this using iframes or is there another way
    to get around that?
    richard, Jan 3, 2008
    #1
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  2. richard

    dorayme Guest

    dorayme, Jan 3, 2008
    #2
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  3. richard

    richard Guest

    On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:35:53 +1100, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > richard <> wrote:
    >
    >> http://oldies.littleworldofours.com/home.html

    >
    >Don't use inches and pts in your css instructions for screen
    >representation.


    Then what the **** am I supposed to use when every damn browser around
    can't agree on what an em or a pixel is?
    IE plays hell with an em. What am I supposed to do then? Create a page
    for a specific browser? Like hell I will. Then a page for each
    resolution? Bullshit.

    The way I see it, if those are choices, then if we're not supposed to
    use them, then why are they choices?
    richard, Jan 3, 2008
    #3
  4. On Jan 4, 5:02 am, richard <> wrote:
    > http://oldies.littleworldofours.com/home.html
    >
    > This will be my home page. What I was thinking of doing was to leave
    > the page as is, then change only the center division as needed.
    > How would I best approach this using iframes or is there another way
    > to get around that?


    Instead of an iframe you could consider using some kind of scripting
    language/tool that includes you content directly into the page. eg.
    ssi or php

    Could be content from database or from another flat file.
    Disco Octopus, Jan 3, 2008
    #4
  5. richard

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    "richard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:35:53 +1100, dorayme
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>In article <>,
    >> richard <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> http://oldies.littleworldofours.com/home.html

    >>
    >>Don't use inches and pts in your css instructions for screen
    >>representation.

    >
    > Then what the **** am I supposed to use when every damn browser around
    > can't agree on what an em or a pixel is?
    > IE plays hell with an em. What am I supposed to do then? Create a page
    > for a specific browser? Like hell I will. Then a page for each
    > resolution? Bullshit.
    >
    > The way I see it, if those are choices, then if we're not supposed to
    > use them, then why are they choices?


    Because CSS allows you to have different stylesheets for different media.
    Points and inches are appropriate for a print stylesheet.
    Nik Coughlin, Jan 3, 2008
    #5
  6. richard

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    richard <> wrote:

    > On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:35:53 +1100, dorayme
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>,
    > > richard <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> http://oldies.littleworldofours.com/home.html

    > >
    > >Don't use inches and pts in your css instructions for screen
    > >representation.

    >
    > Then what the **** am I supposed to use when every damn browser around
    > can't agree on what an em or a pixel is?
    > IE plays hell with an em. What am I supposed to do then? Create a page
    > for a specific browser? Like hell I will. Then a page for each
    > resolution? Bullshit.
    >
    > The way I see it, if those are choices, then if we're not supposed to
    > use them, then why are they choices?


    Every damn screen can't agree on how many pixels fill an inch or
    how big a pixel is - so hang onto your shirt! <g>

    If you say nothing at all about font-sizes anywhere in your html
    or css, you will do fine. There is a lot of intelligence in the
    default styles that are used by browsers. Clever people whose
    business it is to know things made these styles. A lot of this
    work is already done to a reasonably high standard. That is first
    point.

    <URL: http://tobyinkster.co.uk/article/web-fonts/ />

    <URL: http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html />

    If you really want to set font-sizes because you do not like the
    ones that are provided by default, then tread lightly and set the
    body to font-size: 100%; and a few other important ones like
    headings at what you like; e.g. an h1 to 180%, a footnote to 85%
    etc.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jan 3, 2008
    #6
  7. On Jan 3, 1:02 pm, richard <> wrote:
    > Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
    > This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Jan 10, 1:02 pm).


    Richard, you came to this news group seeking information. Why do you
    want to take that away from someone else by setting your post to be
    removed in 6 days, thus removing the possibility someone might find
    the answer based on searching for key words that were in your post.

    I think it is kind of rude that's all.
    Travis Newbury, Jan 3, 2008
    #7
  8. On Jan 3, 3:04 pm, richard <> wrote:
    > >Don't use inches and pts in your css instructions for screen
    > >representation.

    > Then what the **** am I supposed to use when every damn browser around
    > can't agree on what an em or a pixel is?


    Nice way to reply. You do know that dorayme is a recovering
    tourette's patient and your swearing probably knocked her off the
    wagon! Great job there richard!

    The group can do without your posts can you set them to be removed in
    a day rather than 6?
    Travis Newbury, Jan 3, 2008
    #8
  9. richard

    Neredbojias Guest

    Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:02:05 GMT
    richard scribed:

    > http://oldies.littleworldofours.com/home.html
    >
    > This will be my home page. What I was thinking of doing was to leave
    > the page as is, then change only the center division as needed.
    > How would I best approach this using iframes or is there another way
    > to get around that?


    Before I'd use an iframe I'd use javascript, but the best way is probably
    server-side with php or something similar, reloading the same page with new
    content. (Javascript, of course, would effectively render the page useless
    to non-j/s-enabled browsers.)

    --
    Neredbojias
    Riches are their own reward.
    Neredbojias, Jan 3, 2008
    #9
  10. richard

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <
    >,

    Travis Newbury <> wrote:

    > On Jan 3, 3:04 pm, richard <> wrote:
    > > >Don't use inches and pts in your css instructions for screen
    > > >representation.

    > > Then what the **** am I supposed to use when every damn browser around
    > > can't agree on what an em or a pixel is?

    >
    > Nice way to reply. You do know that dorayme is a recovering
    > tourette's patient and your swearing probably knocked her off the
    > wagon! Great job there richard!
    >
    > The group can do without your posts can you set them to be removed in
    > a day rather than 6?


    Well, thanks Travis. But my attitude is actually rather different
    on this one. Until I hear otherwise, I rather think of Richard's
    language and protest as earthy and heartfelt. If everyone else
    here was prepared to indulge in same, I would happily throw out
    the civilised version of the international English dictionary and
    use the dinkiest of dinky die old fashioned working class inner
    city Australian pub one. But I fancy it would be just too much
    for delicate international ears.

    The real trouble with allowing this kind of earthiness is that it
    attracts bad types, that is, people with base motives, low
    breeding, mean sob resentments towards life and fellows and like
    that. So reluctantly, I suppose, we must be a bit straight-laced.

    Please excuse me Travis but I have to pop into my sound-proof
    room now to tap and tap and tap the special tourette-absorption
    device I built myself... and ... well... to scream.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jan 3, 2008
    #10
  11. richard

    richard Guest

    On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:25:59 -0800 (PST), Travis Newbury
    <> wrote:

    >On Jan 3, 1:02 pm, richard <> wrote:
    >> Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
    >> This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Jan 10, 1:02 pm).

    >
    >Richard, you came to this news group seeking information. Why do you
    >want to take that away from someone else by setting your post to be
    >removed in 6 days, thus removing the possibility someone might find
    >the answer based on searching for key words that were in your post.
    >
    >I think it is kind of rude that's all.
    >
    >


    I have my reasons for doing so.
    In some groups, such as this that is highly active, after 7 days and
    you've had no replies, you may as well repost a new thread.
    richard, Jan 4, 2008
    #11
  12. richard

    richard Guest

    On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:35:53 +1100, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > richard <> wrote:
    >
    >> http://oldies.littleworldofours.com/home.html

    >
    >Don't use inches and pts in your css instructions for screen
    >representation.


    Another thing, the way I see it, a screen is nothing more than a fancy
    sheet of paper. Inches and points are defined by a standard that was
    around well before electronics came into the world.
    richard, Jan 4, 2008
    #12
  13. richard

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    richard <> wrote:

    > On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:35:53 +1100, dorayme
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>,
    > > richard <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> http://oldies.littleworldofours.com/home.html

    > >
    > >Don't use inches and pts in your css instructions for screen
    > >representation.

    >
    > Another thing, the way I see it, a screen is nothing more than a fancy
    > sheet of paper. Inches and points are defined by a standard that was
    > around well before electronics came into the world.


    OK. You complained about waiting 7 day for replies in another
    post. Reply to this:

    Did you read the urls I gave you?

    Do you know that the percentage of area taken up by a square inch
    on one monitor is no indication of the percentage area taken up
    on another screen?

    Would it not be safer and more sensible, even when thinking of
    designing for visual users, to go for relative dimensions? Like,
    for example, % widths and heights?

    Do you know that by fixing widths in inches for boxes, even
    though you specify pts for font sizes, many modern browsers will
    allow users to enlarge the text size and that when this happens,
    text can break out of the fixed size boxes?

    Or that one excellent way of avoiding the latter is to specify
    both font sizes and boxes in em units?

    Have you ever seen print on a piece of paper that a reader can
    alter the actual size of?

    Have you ever heard of Leibniz's Identity of Indiscernibles which
    has corollaries that say in effect that the more things differ,
    the less they can be the same?

    When you respond to this, we will go further. But please reflect
    on this first.

    You may continue to use really foul language as long as it is not
    personally insulting.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jan 4, 2008
    #13
  14. ..oO(richard)

    >On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:35:53 +1100, dorayme
    >
    >>Don't use inches and pts in your css instructions for screen
    >>representation.

    >
    >Another thing, the way I see it, a screen is nothing more than a fancy
    >sheet of paper. Inches and points are defined by a standard that was
    >around well before electronics came into the world.


    Correct. But screens don't work with points or inches, they work with
    pixels. Now the problem is, that in order to correctly calculate the
    corresponding length in pixels for a given pt or in value, the operating
    system has to be configured to a correct dpi/ppi value. But most systems
    simply run with the default values of 72 or 96 dpi, which means that the
    results are completely unpredictable and never the same on different
    platforms with different monitor sizes. A pixel will (almost) always be
    a pixel, but an inch or point may result in quite different pixel sizes.

    Micha
    Michael Fesser, Jan 4, 2008
    #14
  15. richard

    richard Guest

    On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:34:46 +0100, Michael Fesser <>
    wrote:

    >.oO(richard)
    >
    >>On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:35:53 +1100, dorayme
    >>
    >>>Don't use inches and pts in your css instructions for screen
    >>>representation.

    >>
    >>Another thing, the way I see it, a screen is nothing more than a fancy
    >>sheet of paper. Inches and points are defined by a standard that was
    >>around well before electronics came into the world.

    >
    >Correct. But screens don't work with points or inches, they work with
    >pixels. Now the problem is, that in order to correctly calculate the
    >corresponding length in pixels for a given pt or in value, the operating
    >system has to be configured to a correct dpi/ppi value. But most systems
    >simply run with the default values of 72 or 96 dpi, which means that the
    >results are completely unpredictable and never the same on different
    >platforms with different monitor sizes. A pixel will (almost) always be
    >a pixel, but an inch or point may result in quite different pixel sizes.
    >
    >Micha


    Which is why I decided to use inches and pts.
    Comparing positioning in both IE and FF, it is the only way in which
    both show the same locations for the same information.
    Practically everything else is a variable. That is, it has no distinct
    properties other than what the screen tells it.
    An inch is a fixed standard. It can only be represented one way.
    richard, Jan 4, 2008
    #15
  16. richard

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 3 Jan, 18:02, richard <> wrote:
    > http://oldies.littleworldofours.com/home.html
    >
    > What I was thinking of doing was to leave
    > the page as is, then change only the center division as needed.


    Use SSI, not a dynamic client-side <iframe>

    Use % units for text sizing, if IE's bugs with ems are a problem to
    you. Limit the use of pixels to horizontal sizing around fixed-width
    images, otherwise use ems.
    Andy Dingley, Jan 4, 2008
    #16
  17. ..oO(richard)

    >On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:34:46 +0100, Michael Fesser <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Correct. But screens don't work with points or inches, they work with
    >>pixels. Now the problem is, that in order to correctly calculate the
    >>corresponding length in pixels for a given pt or in value, the operating
    >>system has to be configured to a correct dpi/ppi value. But most systems
    >>simply run with the default values of 72 or 96 dpi, which means that the
    >>results are completely unpredictable and never the same on different
    >>platforms with different monitor sizes. A pixel will (almost) always be
    >>a pixel, but an inch or point may result in quite different pixel sizes.

    >
    >Which is why I decided to use inches and pts.
    >Comparing positioning in both IE and FF, it is the only way in which
    >both show the same locations for the same information.


    Nope. That would be px. A 50px margin will always be 50px. But a 2in
    margin can be nearly anything on the user's screen.

    For example a 2in width as defined in the CSS appears as 4.5cm on my 19"
    screen at a 1600 resolution, since I use the default setting of 96ppi.

    >Practically everything else is a variable.


    In the WWW nearly everything is variable.
    But this is feature, not a bug.

    >That is, it has no distinct
    >properties other than what the screen tells it.
    >An inch is a fixed standard. It can only be represented one way.


    Nope. You don't know how many pixels an inch defined in your CSS will be
    on the user's screen, since it depends on the OS configuration.

    Micha
    Michael Fesser, Jan 4, 2008
    #17
  18. On Jan 3, 9:00 pm, richard <> wrote:
    > >I think it is kind of rude that's all.

    > I have my reasons for doing so.
    > In some groups, such as this that is highly active, after 7 days and
    > you've had no replies, you may as well repost a new thread.


    So lets say this second thread results in the answers to your
    questions. Because you have marked it for deletion you have
    successfully removed it for future searching. Since you don't know if
    someone is going to answer you or not, the fact that you have the
    message removed is still rude and thoughtless to others that use this
    group.
    Travis Newbury, Jan 4, 2008
    #18
  19. richard

    Bergamot Guest

    richard wrote:
    >
    > An inch is a fixed standard. It can only be represented one way.


    That's making the bold assumption that the user's screen is properly
    calibrated. Most are probably not.

    --
    Berg
    Bergamot, Jan 4, 2008
    #19
  20. richard

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:06:09 -0500, richard <> wrote:

    >Another thing, the way I see it, a screen is nothing more than a fancy
    >sheet of paper.


    No, it's _lots_of_ fancy sheets of paper, all different. The number of
    pixels height a character needs to be readable is different on my screen
    and your screen.
    Andy Dingley, Jan 10, 2008
    #20
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