iframe > remote url > load in new window

Discussion in 'HTML' started by marckatsambis@gmail.com, Sep 5, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Hi,

    Is it possible to have a remote/external link (within an iframe) to
    load in a new window when clicked?

    In Safari, this doesn't seem to be a problem. Adding target="_blank"
    to the anchor seems to do exactly what I would expect, but when I test
    this theory in Firefox, it load the remote site in the parent window.

    Does this seemingly simple problem have a solution?

    Cheers,
    , Sep 5, 2007
    #1
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  2. dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > Is it possible to have a remote/external link (within an iframe) to
    > load in a new window when clicked?
    >
    > In Safari, this doesn't seem to be a problem. Adding target="_blank"
    > to the anchor seems to do exactly what I would expect, but when I test
    > this theory in Firefox, it load the remote site in the parent window.
    >
    > Does this seemingly simple problem have a solution?
    >
    > Cheers,


    Look at the choices you have in your FF preferences for "opening
    new pages". I will leave you to others to be drawn and quartered
    for not knowing about the evils of _blank

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 5, 2007
    #2
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  3. Guest

    > Look at the choices you have in your FF preferences for "opening
    > new pages". I will leave you to others to be drawn and quartered
    > for not knowing about the evils of _blank
    >
    > --
    > dorayme


    Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
    preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
    it is meant to.

    What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
    _blank evil? What should I use instead?
    , Sep 5, 2007
    #3
  4. dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    wrote:

    > > Look at the choices you have in your FF preferences for "opening
    > > new pages". I will leave you to others to be drawn and quartered
    > > for not knowing about the evils of _blank
    > >
    > > --
    > > dorayme

    >
    > Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
    > preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
    > it is meant to.
    >


    You do not say what her prefs are or yours?

    > What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
    > _blank evil? What should I use instead?


    I have:

    <http://netweaver.com.au/test/pics/ff_prefs.png>

    I may have also downloaded an optional panel called Tab Mix Plus
    Options. Google up for it. you might like it.

    About _blank. If you are an author, try to avoid it because it is
    too presumptive to think you know better than the person who is
    looking at your webpage. If he wants to see a link in a new page,
    he has the powers right there in his browser. On a Mac, eg, you
    can simply control or right click and a little context menu comes
    up and you can choose how to open a link, in a separate window,
    in a tab, in the same window, on the toilet roll, wherever.

    On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
    complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
    might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.

    In fact, there was a court case recently where a woman died of a
    heart attack from the surprise, another (a man this time) died
    from going into cataclysmic spasms from the confusion. The
    defence tried to call an "expert witness", but it did no good
    when the court heard that he had recently been seen skiing in
    purple pants trying to outrun the police. The deceased's family
    cleaned up.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 5, 2007
    #4
  5. mrcakey Guest

    "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article
    > <>,
    > wrote:
    >
    >> > Look at the choices you have in your FF preferences for "opening
    >> > new pages". I will leave you to others to be drawn and quartered
    >> > for not knowing about the evils of _blank
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> > dorayme

    >>
    >> Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
    >> preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
    >> it is meant to.
    >>

    >
    > You do not say what her prefs are or yours?
    >
    >> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
    >> _blank evil? What should I use instead?

    >
    > I have:
    >
    > <http://netweaver.com.au/test/pics/ff_prefs.png>
    >
    > I may have also downloaded an optional panel called Tab Mix Plus
    > Options. Google up for it. you might like it.
    >
    > About _blank. If you are an author, try to avoid it because it is
    > too presumptive to think you know better than the person who is
    > looking at your webpage. If he wants to see a link in a new page,
    > he has the powers right there in his browser. On a Mac, eg, you
    > can simply control or right click and a little context menu comes
    > up and you can choose how to open a link, in a separate window,
    > in a tab, in the same window, on the toilet roll, wherever.
    >
    > On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
    > complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
    > might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.
    >
    > In fact, there was a court case recently where a woman died of a
    > heart attack from the surprise, another (a man this time) died
    > from going into cataclysmic spasms from the confusion. The
    > defence tried to call an "expert witness", but it did no good
    > when the court heard that he had recently been seen skiing in
    > purple pants trying to outrun the police. The deceased's family
    > cleaned up.
    >


    My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
    educated to Masters and PhD level, need to be told everytime I visit how to
    use right click. Maybe you have a site oriented towards techies, but I
    think you're being very generous to your users. IMHO, I don't think there's
    anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C's, in
    another window/tab.

    +mrcakey
    mrcakey, Sep 5, 2007
    #5
  6. mbstevens Guest

    mrcakey wrote:
    IMHO, I don't think there's
    > anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C's, in
    > another window/tab.


    Huh? T&C?

    > T&C Post-Overhaul Test & Certification
    > T&C Telemetry and Command
    > T&C Terms & Conditions
    > T&C Testing and Certification
    > T&C Thoracic and Cervical
    > T&C Threaded & Coupled
    > T&C Time and Cost
    > T&C Town and Country Surf Designs
    > T&C Track Correlation
    > T&C Training and Certification
    > T&C Training and Competence
    > T&C transfer and convertibility (risk/insurance)
    > T&C Transition and Cutover


    I don't see anything inherently evil about it, either, if the information
    is truly incidental. But there is _usually_ a better way to do it.


    http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo.html
    http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssmaps
    mbstevens, Sep 5, 2007
    #6
  7. John Hosking Guest

    mrcakey wrote:
    > "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> In article
    >> <>,
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
    >>> _blank evil? What should I use instead?


    >>
    >> On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
    >> complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
    >> might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.
    >>

    >
    > My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
    > educated to Masters and PhD level, need to be told everytime I visit how to
    > use right click. Maybe you have a site oriented towards techies, but I
    > think you're being very generous to your users. IMHO, I don't think there's
    > anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C's, in
    > another window/tab.


    Do you have to tell them over and over how to use the Back button? If
    yes, then Web use is not for them, and if no, then they are equipped
    with a solution for links which open in the same window as content they
    wanted to see again.

    But why should the people who do know how to open extra windows when
    they want to be the ones who are penalized for the extra knowledge?

    Usually I can tell when I want a separate window, so I can open it
    myself. When I guess wrong, I can close the extra window I don't want,
    or use the Back button and re-open the link in a separate window, as needed.

    --
    John
    Pondering the value of the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/
    John Hosking, Sep 5, 2007
    #7
  8. dorayme Guest

    In article <fblt2r$isk$>,
    "mrcakey" <> wrote:

    > >> Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
    > >> preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
    > >> it is meant to.
    > >>

    > >
    > > You do not say what her prefs are or yours?
    > >


    You still are not saying what your prefs are set at?

    > >> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
    > >> _blank evil? What should I use instead?

    > >
    > > I have:
    > >
    > > <http://netweaver.com.au/test/pics/ff_prefs.png>
    > >
    > > I may have also downloaded an optional panel called Tab Mix Plus
    > > Options. Google up for it. you might like it.
    > >
    > > About _blank. If you are an author, try to avoid it because it is
    > > too presumptive to think you know better than the person who is
    > > looking at your webpage. If he wants to see a link in a new page,
    > > he has the powers right there in his browser. On a Mac, eg, you
    > > can simply control or right click and a little context menu comes
    > > up and you can choose how to open a link,...
    > >
    > > On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
    > > complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
    > > might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
    > educated to Masters and PhD level, need to be told everytime I visit how to
    > use right click. Maybe you have a site oriented towards techies, but I
    > think you're being very generous to your users. IMHO, I don't think there's
    > anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C's, in
    > another window/tab.


    I am not urging a blanket ban on trying to force extra windows. I
    say "try" because you will not always succeed in getting what you
    might imagine as an author. I have some browsers set to open
    _blanks in tabs. (At least this imposes an order and limits my
    irritability when it is mandated for no particular sound reason).
    There could be some cases where it is appropriate. There is even
    some cases where I actually find javascript pop ups very useful.
    My tone is one of caution on this, not Talibanic edicting
    (followed, of course, by stoning and public flogging and ugly
    satisfaction).

    About your audience and knowledge of mice and commands and
    general browser skills, it may pay to look more empirically
    rather than intuitively at the issue of which is more confusing
    to the unskilled, windows popping up on a screen that obscure
    other windows and calling for a level of knowledge of window
    management on the part of the user or simply relying on the skill
    of using the back button or clicking a navigational link on the
    *one* page. Anyway, think about it and no more abstract
    discussion, we need cases to continue.

    About my sites, no, you are mistaken, I speak to the downtrodden,
    the lonely, the poor, the refugees, the uneducated. It is
    impossible not to feel compassion. My problem is trying to
    concentrate while crying my heart out. My family, with only one
    or two jewel-like exceptions are all banged up in prison for life
    for being serial public nuisances.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 5, 2007
    #8
  9. Guest

    On Sep 6, 8:34 am, dorayme <> wrote:
    > In article <fblt2r$>,
    >
    > "mrcakey" <> wrote:
    > > >> Weird! My Firefox preferences seem to match those of my colleagues FF
    > > >> preferences, but her browser displays the link within a new window as
    > > >> it is meant to.

    >
    > > > You do not say what her prefs are or yours?

    >
    > You still are not saying what your prefs are set at?
    >
    >
    >
    > > >> What is the particular setting I should be looking for? And why is
    > > >> _blank evil? What should I use instead?

    >
    > > > I have:

    >
    > > > <http://netweaver.com.au/test/pics/ff_prefs.png>

    >
    > > > I may have also downloaded an optional panel called Tab Mix Plus
    > > > Options. Google up for it. you might like it.

    >
    > > > About _blank. If you are an author, try to avoid it because it is
    > > > too presumptive to think you know better than the person who is
    > > > looking at your webpage. If he wants to see a link in a new page,
    > > > he has the powers right there in his browser. On a Mac, eg, you
    > > > can simply control or right click and a little context menu comes
    > > > up and you can choose how to open a link,...

    >
    > > > On principle, the user knows best. Best not to assume he is a
    > > > complete schmuck, he will resent you for it if he is not. He
    > > > might very well be irritated to see windows opening unexpectedly.

    >
    > > My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
    > > educated to Masters and PhD level, need to be told everytime I visit how to
    > > use right click. Maybe you have a site oriented towards techies, but I
    > > think you're being very generous to your users. IMHO, I don't think there's
    > > anything inherently evil in forcing certain incidental pages, e.g. T&C's, in
    > > another window/tab.

    >
    > I am not urging a blanket ban on trying to force extra windows. I
    > say "try" because you will not always succeed in getting what you
    > might imagine as an author. I have some browsers set to open
    > _blanks in tabs. (At least this imposes an order and limits my
    > irritability when it is mandated for no particular sound reason).
    > There could be some cases where it is appropriate. There is even
    > some cases where I actually find javascript pop ups very useful.
    > My tone is one of caution on this, not Talibanic edicting
    > (followed, of course, by stoning and public flogging and ugly
    > satisfaction).
    >
    > About your audience and knowledge of mice and commands and
    > general browser skills, it may pay to look more empirically
    > rather than intuitively at the issue of which is more confusing
    > to the unskilled, windows popping up on a screen that obscure
    > other windows and calling for a level of knowledge of window
    > management on the part of the user or simply relying on the skill
    > of using the back button or clicking a navigational link on the
    > *one* page. Anyway, think about it and no more abstract
    > discussion, we need cases to continue.
    >
    > About my sites, no, you are mistaken, I speak to the downtrodden,
    > the lonely, the poor, the refugees, the uneducated. It is
    > impossible not to feel compassion. My problem is trying to
    > concentrate while crying my heart out. My family, with only one
    > or two jewel-like exceptions are all banged up in prison for life
    > for being serial public nuisances.
    >
    > --
    > dorayme


    Dorayme,

    Thanks for your breakdown on _blank, but I have to agree with Johns
    argument. If they can't figure it out, the web is not for them. As a
    designer, I spend half of my time considering usability options, and
    personally do no think that a link to an external site opening in a
    new window is an unexpected surprise when surfing the net. Thanks for
    your caution though. I totally understand how incapable some people
    are when it comes to the internet and computers for that matter.

    As for my preferences:

    Mac G4 - OS X 10.4.10
    Firefox 2.0.0.6

    Tabs > (All settings listed indicate checked options)
    · New pages should be opened in: a new tab
    · Warn me when opening multiple tabs might slow down Firefox

    Content >
    · Block pop-up windows
    · Load images automatically
    · Enable JavaScript
    · Enable Java

    They seem to be the only options that are relevant to my problem. But
    please, do let me know if I'm missing something.

    Thanks,

    Marc

    P.S - Sorry for the delay in replys, I'm on the southern end of the
    globe.
    , Sep 6, 2007
    #9
  10. dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    wrote:

    > As for my preferences:
    >
    > Firefox 2.0.0.6
    >
    > Tabs > (All settings listed indicate checked options)
    > ? New pages should be opened in: a new tab


    > They seem to be the only options that are relevant to my problem. But
    > please, do let me know if I'm missing something.
    >


    From my memory of your intitial problem, the pref above is the
    relevant one. That is why _blanks do not open in a separate
    window. You really need to be careful on using _blank (I hate to
    harp on the matter), if you want to experience what your audience
    will experience to test the issue, you need to guess their prefs
    and this guessing goes on and on and gets to be pretty tenuous.
    Consider a simpler strategy.


    >
    > P.S - Sorry for the delay in replys, I'm on the southern end of the
    > globe.
    >


    Tasmania? (There was an Italian who took a good deal of interest
    in this island...)

    I am in Sydney.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 6, 2007
    #10
  11. dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    dorayme <> wrote:

    > I am in Sydney.


    I forgot to add, I am having lunch with Bush and Putin today,
    they are in town along with the Chinese president. I am worried
    about what to wear.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 6, 2007
    #11
  12. Guest

    On Sep 6, 9:28 am, dorayme <> wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    >
    > dorayme <> wrote:
    > > I am in Sydney.

    >
    > I forgot to add, I am having lunch with Bush and Putin today,
    > they are in town along with the Chinese president. I am worried
    > about what to wear.
    >
    > --
    > dorayme


    Oh, a Sydeny-sider. How unfortunate...
    , Sep 6, 2007
    #12
  13. mbstevens Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <fblt2r$isk$>,


    >> My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
    >> educated to Masters and PhD level,


    > My family, with only one
    > or two jewel-like exceptions are all banged up in prison for life
    > for being serial public nuisances.


    < _chuckle_ >

    Getting settled by England's criminals there versus getting
    settled by England's (often highly educated) rejected religious zealots here
    -- I'm not at all sure who got the sweeter deal. :)
    mbstevens, Sep 6, 2007
    #13
  14. dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    mbstevens <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > In article <fblt2r$isk$>,

    >
    > >> My family, who are pretty bright, and nearly all my friends who are mostly
    > >> educated to Masters and PhD level,

    >
    > > My family, with only one
    > > or two jewel-like exceptions are all banged up in prison for life
    > > for being serial public nuisances.

    >
    > < _chuckle_ >
    >
    > Getting settled by England's criminals there versus getting
    > settled by England's (often highly educated) rejected religious zealots here
    > -- I'm not at all sure who got the sweeter deal. :)


    Surely no contest? Criminality wears out under the long march of
    experience, blind faith is forever...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 6, 2007
    #14
  15. Tim Streater Guest

    In article <>,
    wrote:

    [snip]

    > Thanks for your breakdown on _blank, but I have to agree with Johns
    > argument. If they can't figure it out, the web is not for them. As a
    > designer, I spend half of my time considering usability options, and
    > personally do no think that a link to an external site opening in a
    > new window is an unexpected surprise when surfing the net. Thanks for
    > your caution though. I totally understand how incapable some people
    > are when it comes to the internet and computers for that matter.


    I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
    new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
    button, for example.
    Tim Streater, Sep 6, 2007
    #15
  16. Tim Streater wrote:

    > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
    > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
    > button, for example.


    What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?


    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://improve-usenet.org <----------- New Site Aug 28
    Blinky the Shark, Sep 6, 2007
    #16
  17. Tim Streater Guest

    In article <>,
    Blinky the Shark <> wrote:

    > Tim Streater wrote:
    >
    > > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
    > > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
    > > button, for example.

    >
    > What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?


    You can move the help popup to another part of the screen(s) and read it
    in conjunction with the page you are looking at. Since some of the
    screens in question have a fair bit of information crammed in,
    necessarily abbreviated, a separate help window is more useful than
    another tab.
    Tim Streater, Sep 6, 2007
    #17
  18. Tim Streater wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Blinky the Shark <> wrote:
    >
    >> Tim Streater wrote:
    >>
    >> > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
    >> > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
    >> > button, for example.

    >>
    >> What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?

    >
    > You can move the help popup to another part of the screen(s) and read it


    Wait. Now it's a popup, not a new browser window?

    > in conjunction with the page you are looking at. Since some of the
    > screens in question have a fair bit of information crammed in,
    > necessarily abbreviated, a separate help window is more useful than
    > another tab.


    Wait. Now it's a new window, again?


    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://improve-usenet.org <----------- New Site Aug 28
    Blinky the Shark, Sep 6, 2007
    #18
  19. dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Tim Streater <> wrote:

    > > Tim Streater wrote:
    > >
    > > > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
    > > > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
    > > > button, for example.

    > >
    > > What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?

    >
    > You can move the help popup to another part of the screen(s) and read it
    > in conjunction with the page you are looking at. Since some of the
    > screens in question have a fair bit of information crammed in,
    > necessarily abbreviated, a separate help window is more useful than
    > another tab.


    You can't read two things at once. If you really have to refer
    back and forth between windows that mandates two windows being
    open next to each other, fine. But this situation is rarely the
    case. How about some real examples? The principle reason to open
    another window is to not lose ones place on the first. This is
    truly a problem in many cases, breadcrumb trail can practically
    cope. But for *this* reason, a tab is totally adequate.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 6, 2007
    #19
  20. Tim Streater Guest

    In article <>,
    Blinky the Shark <> wrote:

    > Tim Streater wrote:
    > > In article <>,
    > > Blinky the Shark <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Tim Streater wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > I think it depends. If a clicked link or button is a sidetrack, then a
    > >> > new window is appropriate. I do that when the user clicks the help
    > >> > button, for example.
    > >>
    > >> What purpose does that serve that it opening in a new tab does not?

    > >
    > > You can move the help popup to another part of the screen(s) and read it

    >
    > Wait. Now it's a popup, not a new browser window?


    In another ng thread, I used the word "popup" to refer to what you get
    with <select><option etc></select> and was told off because folks
    thought I meant a separate window. Now you're telling me off again.

    I wish people could make their minds up.

    > > in conjunction with the page you are looking at. Since some of the
    > > screens in question have a fair bit of information crammed in,
    > > necessarily abbreviated, a separate help window is more useful than
    > > another tab.

    >
    > Wait. Now it's a new window, again?


    No, it was always a separate window.

    My site is a private engineering site for our engineers, our NOC, and
    selected customer engineers. But I have seen this "help in a separate
    window" concept employed by many commercial sites. To me it makes sense,
    because it doesn't (by opening a new tab) distract from the original
    window, which the user didn't open for fun, but because they want to
    refer to the information in question. This information is dense, but as
    experts they don't care about that - but they may need a bit of help
    from time to time.
    Tim Streater, Sep 6, 2007
    #20
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