image rollover

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Helpful person, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. I'm fairly new to html but learning fast. I am presently trying to
    find the best way to perform an image rollover for a link. In

    http://www.htmldog.com/articles/rollovers/

    they suggest putting both images in the same jpg file and adjusting
    the alignment. This is shown in

    http://www.htmldog.com/examples/rollovers1.html

    The source code is

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
    <head>
    <title>Rollovers 1</title>
    <style type="text/css" media="all">

    body {
    font: 12px arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
    }

    a {
    display: block;
    width: 200px;
    height: 63px;
    background-image: url(images/toucancombo.jpg);
    text-indent: -999em;
    }

    a:hover {
    background-position: bottom;
    }


    </style>
    </head>

    <body>

    <p><a href="#">Toucan</a></p>

    </body>
    </html>

    I am having trouble understanding the line text-indent -999em

    Can someone please explain this to me?

    I like this method because no JavaScript is used for the rollover.
    What is the general opinion of using this method?
    Helpful person, Jun 19, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On Jun 19, 5:30 pm, Ben C <> wrote:
    > On 2008-06-19, Helpful person <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > I'm fairly new to html but learning fast.  I am presently trying to
    > > find the best way to perform an image rollover for a link.  In

    >
    > >http://www.htmldog.com/articles/rollovers/

    >
    > > they suggest putting both images in the same jpg file and adjusting
    > > the alignment.  This is shown in

    >
    > >http://www.htmldog.com/examples/rollovers1.html

    >
    > > The source code is

    >
    > ><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    > >    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

    >
    > ><html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
    > ><head>
    > >    <title>Rollovers 1</title>
    > >    <style type="text/css" media="all">

    >
    > >    body {
    > >            font: 12px arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
    > >    }

    >
    > >    a {
    > >            display: block;
    > >            width: 200px;
    > >            height: 63px;
    > >            background-image: url(images/toucancombo.jpg);
    > >            text-indent: -999em;
    > >    }

    >
    > >    a:hover {
    > >            background-position: bottom;
    > >    }

    >
    > >    </style>
    > ></head>

    >
    > ><body>

    >
    > ><p><a href="#">Toucan</a></p>

    >
    > ></body>
    > ></html>

    >
    > > I am having trouble understanding the line   text-indent -999em

    >
    > > Can someone please explain this to me?

    >
    > It's just meant to make the actual text "Toucan" disappear since the
    > idea is you see the image toucancombo.jpg instead.
    >
    > If the user has CSS disabled for some reason they won't get the
    > background image toucancombo.jpg. But neither will the text disappear.
    > So they will just see a boring old link saying "Toucan" probably
    > underlined in blue, which is ideal.
    >
    > The text doesn't really disappear, it just takes a long walk off a short
    > pier. If browsers supported left scrolling (which they should-- will
    > someone PLEEEASE think of the Arabs) you would be able to scroll
    > 999ems to the left and find the word "Toucan" there.
    >
    > A more logical choice than text-indent: -999em would be visibility:
    > hidden. But some article somewhere about how broken most screen-readers
    > are suggested that text-indent: something-large-and-negative worked
    > better in practice in the variously borked crop of browsers of the time,
    > and memes get around.
    >
    > > I like this method because no JavaScript is used for the rollover.
    > > What is the general opinion of using this method?

    >
    > I agree this is a much neater way to do rollovers than JS. It might not
    > work in some versions of IE, so aim to keep the page basically usable
    > without the effect.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Thanks. I expect to have more questions on this method after I've
    implemented an example myself. (I need to understand small bits at a
    time before I'm wise enough to know which questions to ask.)
    Helpful person, Jun 20, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Helpful person

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ben C <> wrote:

    > On 2008-06-19, Helpful person <> wrote:


    > > http://www.htmldog.com/articles/rollovers/
    > >
    > > they suggest putting both images in the same jpg file and adjusting
    > > the alignment. This is shown in
    > >
    > > http://www.htmldog.com/examples/rollovers1.html
    > >
    > >
    > > I am having trouble understanding the line text-indent -999em
    > >
    > > Can someone please explain this to me?

    >
    > It's just meant to make the actual text "Toucan" disappear since the
    > idea is you see the image toucancombo.jpg instead.
    >
    > If the user has CSS disabled for some reason they won't get the
    > background image toucancombo.jpg. But neither will the text disappear.
    > So they will just see a boring old link saying "Toucan" probably
    > underlined in blue, which is ideal.


    Fair enough in one way. But in another way, it seems a bit rich to make
    the consequence of a disabling of style be an disabling of a perhaps
    relevant image too - which in this limited case it sort of is.

    Authors might well consider putting in a normal image in the link
    (something to match the image that appears as background, probably the
    same one as the non-faded one used as bg).

    If styles are on, it goes for a long walk off your pier too - as is
    wanted.

    Sort of thing I mean is at:

    <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover.html>

    One might or might not want to put in the word/caption.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 20, 2008
    #3
  4. Helpful person

    BootNic Guest

    On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:31:49 +1000
    dorayme <> wrote in:


    > In article <>,
    > Ben C <> wrote:

    [snip]
    >> If the user has CSS disabled for some reason they won't get the
    >> background image toucancombo.jpg. But neither will the text
    >> disappear. So they will just see a boring old link saying "Toucan"
    >> probably underlined in blue, which is ideal.

    >
    > Fair enough in one way. But in another way, it seems a bit rich to
    > make the consequence of a disabling of style be an disabling of a
    > perhaps relevant image too - which in this limited case it sort of
    > is.
    >
    > Authors might well consider putting in a normal image in the link
    > (something to match the image that appears as background, probably
    > the same one as the non-faded one used as bg).
    >
    > If styles are on, it goes for a long walk off your pier too - as is
    > wanted.
    >
    > Sort of thing I mean is at:
    >
    > <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover.html>
    >
    > One might or might not want to put in the word/caption.


    What IF images are disabled or the image does not load for what ever
    reason?

    --
    BootNic Thursday June 19, 2008 11:09 PM
    You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means
    he uses to frighten you.
    *Eric Hoffer*

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    BootNic, Jun 20, 2008
    #4
  5. Helpful person

    Bergamot Guest

    Ben C wrote:
    > On 2008-06-19, Helpful person <> wrote:
    >>
    >> a {
    >> background-image: url(images/toucancombo.jpg);
    >> text-indent: -999em;
    >> }
    >> a:hover {
    >> background-position: bottom;
    >> }

    >
    >> I like this method because no JavaScript is used for the rollover.
    >> What is the general opinion of using this method?


    Repositioning a background image on :hover is a good way to do
    rollovers. That text-indent is not such a good idea, though.

    > I agree this is a much neater way to do rollovers than JS. It might not
    > work in some versions of IE, so aim to keep the page basically usable
    > without the effect.


    IE is not the problem. The bigger problem with this method of image
    replacement is when CSS is enabled, but image loading disabled. In that
    case the user sees nothing at all. It's a problem with most other image
    replacement methods, as well. Better accessibility is not to use them at
    all, though I've heard some JavaScript or Flash-based methods are less
    harmful.

    http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/

    --
    Berg
    Bergamot, Jun 20, 2008
    #5
  6. Helpful person

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    BootNic <> wrote:

    > On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:31:49 +1000
    > dorayme <> wrote in:
    >
    >
    > > In article <>,
    > > Ben C <> wrote:

    > [snip]
    > >> If the user has CSS disabled for some reason they won't get the
    > >> background image toucancombo.jpg. But neither will the text
    > >> disappear. So they will just see a boring old link saying "Toucan"
    > >> probably underlined in blue, which is ideal.

    > >
    > > Fair enough in one way. But in another way, it seems a bit rich to
    > > make the consequence of a disabling of style be an disabling of a
    > > perhaps relevant image too - which in this limited case it sort of
    > > is.
    > >
    > > Authors might well consider putting in a normal image in the link
    > > (something to match the image that appears as background, probably
    > > the same one as the non-faded one used as bg).
    > >
    > > If styles are on, it goes for a long walk off your pier too - as is
    > > wanted.
    > >
    > > Sort of thing I mean is at:
    > >
    > > <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover.html>
    > >
    > > One might or might not want to put in the word/caption.

    >
    > What IF images are disabled or the image does not load for what ever
    > reason?


    Nice question, if there are no images available by the names given and
    the css is turned off, in my FF, the alt words (now that I have them in)
    "appear as" a link.

    <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover_noCSS_noSuchPics.html>

    If this is still not good enough, I will make it better. I want to hang
    on to the point I made before, by hook or by crook. <g>

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 20, 2008
    #6
  7. Helpful person

    Bergamot Guest

    Ben C wrote:
    >
    > But then how many people really disable images but not CSS?


    Dial-up users come to mind.

    --
    Berg
    Bergamot, Jun 20, 2008
    #7
  8. Ben C wrote:
    > On 2008-06-20, Bergamot <> wrote:
    >> Ben C wrote:
    >>> But then how many people really disable images but not CSS?

    >> Dial-up users come to mind.

    >
    > Maybe, although I never did when I had dialup. The images don't take
    > that long and browsers always display the text first so you have
    > something to read.


    Only when idiots take mega-pixel digital camera images and then use HTML
    attributes to "reduce" them in their webpages... As one frustratingly
    stuck on dialup, <curse>A pox on Verizon</curse>, Flash seems to the
    biggest offender. [Loading..................0%]

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Jun 20, 2008
    #8
  9. On Jun 19, 3:55 pm, Helpful person <> wrote:
    > I'm fairly new to html but learning fast.  I am presently trying to
    > find the best way to perform an image rollover for a link.  In
    >
    > http://www.htmldog.com/articles/rollovers/
    >
    > they suggest putting both images in the same jpg file and adjusting
    > the alignment.  This is shown in
    >
    > http://www.htmldog.com/examples/rollovers1.html
    >
    > The source code is
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    >         "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
    >
    > <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
    > <head>
    >         <title>Rollovers 1</title>
    >         <style type="text/css" media="all">
    >
    >         body {
    >                 font: 12px arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
    >         }
    >
    >         a {
    >                 display: block;
    >                 width: 200px;
    >                 height: 63px;
    >                 background-image: url(images/toucancombo.jpg);
    >                 text-indent: -999em;
    >         }
    >
    >         a:hover {
    >                 background-position: bottom;
    >         }
    >
    >         </style>
    > </head>
    >
    > <body>
    >
    > <p><a href="#">Toucan</a></p>
    >
    > </body>
    > </html>
    >
    > I am having trouble understanding the line   text-indent -999em
    >
    > Can someone please explain this to me?
    >
    > I like this method because no JavaScript is used for the rollover.
    > What is the general opinion of using this method?


    I've read through the answers and am most grateful for the
    information. However, I am still concerned about the case where
    images are switched off in the browser. I believe that in this case
    the user sees nothing.

    Does it make more sense to use an image instead of the text toucan
    where I can set alt text? Does this display the alt text instead of
    the images or is it also subject to text-indent -999.em?
    Helpful person, Jun 23, 2008
    #9
  10. Helpful person

    Bergamot Guest

    Helpful person wrote:
    > On Jun 19, 3:55 pm, Helpful person <> wrote:
    >> a {
    >> background-image: url(images/toucancombo.jpg);
    >> text-indent: -999em;
    >> }
    >> a:hover {
    >> background-position: bottom;
    >> }
    >> <p><a href="#">Toucan</a></p>

    >
    > Does it make more sense to use an image instead of the text toucan
    > where I can set alt text?


    Most likely, but since you haven't posted a URL so we can see things in
    context it's just a WAG.

    > Does this display the alt text instead of
    > the images or is it also subject to text-indent -999.em?


    A foreground <img> gets alt text, backgrounds do not. Drop the
    text-indent rule if you use foreground images. Or use a different image
    replacement (IR) method that doesn't suffer the problems associated with
    text-indent.

    BTW, if your desire is maintaining accessibility, IR should be avoided.
    Just stick with foreground images and appropriate alt text. IR was
    designed to benefit search engines more than regular visitors anyway.

    --
    Berg
    Bergamot, Jun 23, 2008
    #10
  11. Helpful person

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Helpful person <> wrote:

    > I've read through the answers and am most grateful for the
    > information. However, I am still concerned about the case where
    > images are switched off in the browser. I believe that in this case
    > the user sees nothing.


    If you supply a realistic case (it need not be real) where it would be
    appropriate and cool to use rollovers, I will supply you with sensible
    strategies to cope with your concerns.

    From past experience, people do not take up offers like this, prefering
    to have some fun with abstractions.

    Which is ok by me. In fact, lets visit Mr. More Fun. In response to a
    good objection by Bootnic to an earlier effort of mine, I notice that
    the following bit of play at solving the artificial contextless problem
    works on my Safari, iCab, Opera (latest) and even Mac IE 5 but not quite
    on Firefox 2, I have not got FF3 yet.

    See

    <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover.html>

    and

    <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover_noSuchImages.html>

    These show how you can supply text to appear if the images do not
    appear. I am not claiming it is practical.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 24, 2008
    #11
  12. Helpful person

    BootNic Guest

    On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:07:14 +1000
    dorayme <> wrote in:
    <>

    > In article
    > <>,
    > Helpful person <> wrote:
    >
    >> I've read through the answers and am most grateful for the
    >> information. However, I am still concerned about the case where
    >> images are switched off in the browser. I believe that in this case
    >> the user sees nothing.

    [snip]
    > Which is ok by me. In fact, lets visit Mr. More Fun. In response to a
    > good objection by Bootnic to an earlier effort of mine, I notice that
    > the following bit of play at solving the artificial contextless
    > problem works on my Safari, iCab, Opera (latest) and even Mac IE 5
    > but not quite on Firefox 2, I have not got FF3 yet.
    >
    > See
    >
    > <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover.html>
    >
    > and
    >
    > <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover_noSuchImages.html>

    [snip]

    Just one possible way:

    http://snurl.com/2o93u

    Is it accessible? I do NOT know.




    --
    BootNic Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:47 PM
    "The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which
    failed to start because of the following error: The operation
    completed successfully."
    *Windows NT Server v3.51*


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    BootNic, Jun 24, 2008
    #12
  13. Helpful person

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    BootNic <> wrote:

    > > <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover.html>
    > >
    > > and
    > >
    > > <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover_noSuchImages.html>

    > [snip]
    >
    > Just one possible way:
    >
    > http://snurl.com/2o93u
    >
    > Is it accessible? I do NOT know.


    I get

    <http://www.000webhost.com/admin-review>

    with your url. You are having trouble with "Tiny-type" urls (you
    mentioned the problem before and it seems that snurl too is finding an
    obstacle).

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 25, 2008
    #13
  14. Helpful person

    BootNic Guest

    On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:09:44 +1000
    dorayme <> wrote in:
    <>

    > In article <>,
    > BootNic <> wrote:

    [snip]
    >> Just one possible way:
    >>
    >> http://snurl.com/2o93u
    >>
    >> Is it accessible? I do NOT know.

    >
    > I get
    >
    > <http://www.000webhost.com/admin-review>
    >
    > with your url. You are having trouble with "Tiny-type" urls (you
    > mentioned the problem before and it seems that snurl too is finding
    > an obstacle).


    Well is that nice, only works in the browser I requested it in, and only for the session lol so I guess something has changed.

    http://bootnic.net46.net/ImageHover.php




    --
    BootNic Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:37 PM
    Our earth is degenerate in these latter days; bribery and corruption
    are common; children no longer obey their parents; and the end of the
    world is evidently approaching.
    *Assyrian clay tablet 2800 B.C.*


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    BootNic, Jun 25, 2008
    #14
  15. On Jun 24, 12:19 am, Helpful person <> wrote:
    > On Jun 19, 3:55 pm, Helpful person <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > I'm fairly new to html but learning fast. I am presently trying to
    > > find the best way to perform an image rollover for a link. In

    >
    > >http://www.htmldog.com/articles/rollovers/

    >
    > > they suggest putting both images in the same jpg file and adjusting
    > > the alignment. This is shown in

    >
    > >http://www.htmldog.com/examples/rollovers1.html

    >
    > > The source code is

    >
    > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    > > "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

    >
    > > <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
    > > <head>
    > > <title>Rollovers 1</title>
    > > <style type="text/css" media="all">

    >
    > > body {
    > > font: 12px arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
    > > }

    >
    > > a {
    > > display: block;
    > > width: 200px;
    > > height: 63px;
    > > background-image: url(images/toucancombo.jpg);
    > > text-indent: -999em;
    > > }

    >
    > > a:hover {
    > > background-position: bottom;
    > > }

    >
    > > </style>
    > > </head>

    >
    > > <body>

    >
    > > <p><a href="#">Toucan</a></p>

    >
    > > </body>
    > > </html>

    >
    > > I am having trouble understanding the line text-indent -999em

    >
    > > Can someone please explain this to me?

    >
    > > I like this method because no JavaScript is used for the rollover.
    > > What is the general opinion of using this method?

    >
    > I've read through the answers and am most grateful for the
    > information. However, I am still concerned about the case where
    > images are switched off in the browser. I believe that in this case
    > the user sees nothing.
    >
    > Does it make more sense to use an image instead of the text toucan
    > where I can set alt text? Does this display the alt text instead of
    > the images or is it also subject to text-indent -999.em?


    You could possibly use a single pixel transparent GIF that has the
    width 1x1 and stretch it to be the size you require (200x63) and give
    this the ALT value of the text you need (eg. alt="Toucan"). Put this
    img in the a. Then, apply background properties to the img (rather
    than the a? not sure??). This way, when the user prefers to have
    their images off, the alt of the transparent GIF img will be shown.

    Now, I have not tested this, but it may just work.
    Disco Octopus, Jun 25, 2008
    #15
  16. Helpful person

    BootNic Guest

    On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:37:27 -0400
    BootNic <> wrote in:
    <>

    [snip]
    > Well is that nice, only works in the browser I requested it in, and
    > only for the session lol so I guess something has changed.
    >
    > http://bootnic.net46.net/ImageHover.php


    I should have read the link instead of thinking the redirect was broken.


    --
    BootNic Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:44 PM
    Thirty-five is when you finally get your head together and your body
    starts falling apart.
    *Caryn Leschen*


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    BootNic, Jun 25, 2008
    #16
  17. Helpful person

    BootNic Guest

    On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:09:44 +1000
    dorayme <> wrote in:
    <>

    > In article <>,
    > BootNic <> wrote:
    >

    [snip]
    >> Is it accessible? I do NOT know.

    >
    > I get

    [snip]
    > with your url. You are having trouble with "Tiny-type" urls (you
    > mentioned the problem before and it seems that snurl too is finding an
    > obstacle).


    Well that's enough of that host.

    http://tinyurl.com/6l7zbt




    --
    BootNic Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:37 PM
    You can turn painful situations around through laughter. If you can
    find humor in anything - even poverty - you can survive it.
    *Bill Cosby*


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    BootNic, Jun 25, 2008
    #17
  18. Helpful person

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    BootNic <> wrote:

    >
    > Well that's enough of that host.
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/6l7zbt


    Nice, within limits! Until one enlarges the text when the "google
    search" text comes out like a number of coalescing bears from a den.

    I notice on cursory test that changing your

    div.img-hover {
    ...
    position: relative;

    to

    div.img-hover {
    ...
    float: left;

    with a mind to a useful thumbnail application, seems to work too. With
    the same limitation as above.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 25, 2008
    #18
  19. Helpful person

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    dorayme <> wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > BootNic <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Well that's enough of that host.
    > >
    > > http://tinyurl.com/6l7zbt

    >
    > Nice, within limits! Until one enlarges the text when the "google
    > search" text comes out like a number of coalescing bears from a den.
    >


    I should add that my

    <http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/rollover.html>

    suffers the same fault. Plus mine has the minor blemish of not working
    in one of the best browsers around, FF. <g>

    I am telling the OP again. In a real context there are vays and means of
    avoiding all this trouble.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 25, 2008
    #19
  20. Helpful person

    Bergamot Guest

    Bergamot, Jun 25, 2008
    #20
    1. Advertising

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