immutable vs mutable

[Deb Wyatt]

Thanks everyone for your help. I also found this article while I was waiting for answers from this list, in case anybody else is interested in this topic:

http://www.spontaneoussymmetry.com/blog/archives/438

Deb in WA, USA

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[Mark H Harris]

http://www.spontaneoussymmetry.com/blog/archives/438

Deb in WA, USA

The article is bogged down in unnecessary complications with regard to
mutability (or not) and pass-by reference|value stuff. The author risks
confusing her audience (those who are perhaps already confused about the
nature of variables in Python).

The examples deal mostly with names and scope. The article in my opinion
confuses a Python concept which is otherwise very straight-forward which
has been beat to death on this forum.

marcus

 

[Deb Wyatt]

The examples deal mostly with names and scope. The article in my opinion
confuses a Python concept which is otherwise very straight-forward which
has been beat to death on this forum.

marcus

Well, I'm glad you find this concept straight-forward. I guess I'm not as smart as you. I won't beat it anymore.

Deb in WA, USA

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[Deb Wyatt]

The examples deal mostly with names and scope. The article in my opinion
confuses a Python concept which is otherwise very straight-forward which
has been beat to death on this forum.

marcus

Well, I'm glad you find this concept straight-forward. I guess I'm not as smart as you. I won't beat it anymore.

Deb in WA, USA

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[Ethan Furman]

Well, I'm glad you find this concept straight-forward. I guess I'm not
as smart as you. I won't beat it anymore.

Deb, do yourself a favor and just trash-can anything from Mark Harris.

And keep asking questions.

 

[Deb Wyatt]

-----Original Message-----

From: (e-mail address removed)
Sent: Tue, 03 Jun 2014 18:24:01 -0700
To: (e-mail address removed)
Subject: Re: immutable vs mutable

Deb, do yourself a favor and just trash-can anything from Mark Harris.

And keep asking questions.

Oh, I will. I found the article very helpful (I doubt Mr. Harris actually read it) and I've gotten a handle on the subject now, so I'll beat some other subjects as needed lol. Have a pleasant day.

Deb in WA, USA

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[Chris Angelico]

Deb, do yourself a favor and just trash-can anything from Mark Harris.

That may be slightly extreme...

And keep asking questions.

.... but this is definitely good advice. Want to get the most out of
your computer? Step one: Don't be afraid of it. Step two: Don't be
afraid of us, either. There's very little you can do on a computer
that's unexpectedly damaging, and it's easy to keep backups (tip: use
git/hg repositories and backups basically come "for free"); and we
don't bite, so keep on asking smart questions.

Want to be sure your questions are smart? Willing to put in a bit of
effort to make yourself welcomed not just courteously, but
enthusiastically? Check out this essay, one of the more famous ones:

http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

There are tips in there that will help you to make those really
awesome threads that we all dive into and enjoy helping with. You
learn what you wanted to know (and probably lots more besides), we
enjoy a thoroughly discussed topic, and the list/newsgroup archives
add that bit more to the internet's corpus of useful knowledge.
Everyone wins!

ChrisA

 

[Deb Wyatt]

... but this is definitely good advice. Want to get the most out of
your computer? Step one: Don't be afraid of it. Step two: Don't be
afraid of us, either. There's very little you can do on a computer
that's unexpectedly damaging, and it's easy to keep backups (tip: use
git/hg repositories and backups basically come "for free"); and we
don't bite, so keep on asking smart questions.

Want to be sure your questions are smart? Willing to put in a bit of
effort to make yourself welcomed not just courteously, but
enthusiastically? Check out this essay, one of the more famous ones:

http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

There are tips in there that will help you to make those really
awesome threads that we all dive into and enjoy helping with. You
learn what you wanted to know (and probably lots more besides), we
enjoy a thoroughly discussed topic, and the list/newsgroup archives
add that bit more to the internet's corpus of useful knowledge.
Everyone wins!

ChrisA

Thank you for this link. I will do my best to ask *smart* questions. I struggle with explaining myself sometimes, especially when trying to grasp something that baffles me.
Deb in WA, USA

____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

Want to be sure your questions are smart? Willing to put in a bit of
effort to make yourself welcomed not just courteously, but
enthusiastically? Check out this essay, one of the more famous ones:

http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

I have found that (like much from Eric S Raymond) it's more idiosyncratic
and pretentious than a useful educational tool. Although this is aimed at
Java programmers, I think it is MUCH more accessible:

http://sscce.org/

 

[Mark Lawrence]

I have found that (like much from Eric S Raymond) it's more idiosyncratic
and pretentious than a useful educational tool. Although this is aimed at
Java programmers, I think it is MUCH more accessible:

http://sscce.org/

+1

 

[Mark Lawrence]

Thank you for this link. I will do my best to ask *smart* questions. I struggle with explaining myself sometimes, especially when trying to grasp something that baffles me.
Deb in WA, USA

Welcome to the wonderful world of computing

 

[Mark H Harris]

Deb, do yourself a favor and just trash-can anything from Mark Harris.

Ouch, that hurt.

Did someone not get their coffee this morning?

 

[Mark H Harris]

Deb, do yourself a favor and just trash-can anything from Mark Harris.

Ouch, that hurt.

Did someone not get their coffee this morning?

 

[Mark H Harris]

Well, I'm glad you find this concept straight-forward.
I guess I'm not as smart as you.

Not at all. I think you misunderstood me. I read the article and I
reviewed it (although brief, I stand by what I said).

To expand a bit, the article is poorly written and adds more confusion
to the topic than it straightens out. (that is not a comment on your, or
my, intelligence) Most of the article is based on a misunderstanding of
the concept of python as variable, and that topic comes up here all the
time with these at the top:

1) python does not have variables

2) python has names bound to objects

3) python of *course* has variables



marcus