Important Research Project

[E.D.G.]

Important Research Project (Related to computer programming)

Posted by E.D.G. on August 30, 2007 (e-mail address removed)

This report is being posted to a number of Internet Newsgroups to see if
there are any experienced computer programmers who would like to provide
some assistance with an effort to develop a Perl language computer program.

Interested parties can try contacting me by e-mail or by posting a
response note to the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup. They would need to
download a recent (free) MSI copy of Perl from the ActiveState Web site and
get it running on a Windows XP or Vista system.

http://www.activestate.com

I am presently using Perl 5.8.8 but plan to upgrade to the latest
version as soon as possible. People can use Windows 98 if that is the only
operating system available. Perl also runs on other operating systems. But
at this time I specifically need help with the Windows version.

The goal is to have a single Perl program (or modules) perform functions
that have been done by a sizeable collection of other language programs in
the past.

Help is presently needed with learning how to get Perl to generate
charts and also produce standalone .exe copies of itself. The plan is to
then make those .exe copies available to other scientific researchers around
the world for free use along with free use updates when they become
available. If other researchers wish to get Perl running on their own
computers then they will probably also be given the source code for the
original program for free use so that they can do their own development
work.

Perl was originally chosen because it is quite versatile, is a free
download, and is supported both by ActiveState and quite a few independent
programmers. So other researchers could get their own versions running
without having to worry about viruses or cost.

So far the work is fairly advanced. The effort has been underway for at
least a decade. The core data generation program was formally copyrighted
several years ago. My present version of Perl will send data to Windows as
if it were being manually typed into the keyboard (important for controlling
other programs). And it can directed to respond to most keystrokes even
when another program is the active one. Unfortunately, Windows also
presently responds to those keystrokes. And that complicates things a bit.

Not being a professional computer programmer I have been finding it
difficult to get new features such as a chart generating ability merged with
and running with Perl. And the entire research project is now being slowed
as a result. One of my colleagues has done an extensive amount of work with
Basic. And I even offered to pay him to help with the Perl development
effort. But after he downloaded a copy of Perl and examined it he decided
that this would involve too much effort. I have to agree with him.

Once it is possible to create charts and .exe versions the plan is for
researchers around the world to develop Perl modules for generating a
variety of data related to sun, moon, planet, ocean tide crest and trough,
and Solid Earth Tide locations. Most of those data can already be generated
with other programs. Some of the data are not yet available anywhere as far
as I am aware. If the effort is unusually successful the Perl program (or
modules) might eventually be converted to CGI programs that will run at one
or more Internet Web sites.

 

[CBFalconer]

This report is being posted to a number of Internet Newsgroups to
see if there are any experienced computer programmers who would
like to provide some assistance with an effort to develop a Perl
language computer program.

Where is Perl described in the C standard? This seems rather OT.

 

[Paul McGuire]

Important Research Project (Related to computer programming)

Posted by E.D.G. on August 30, 2007 (e-mail address removed)

This report is being posted to a number of Internet Newsgroups

Always the hallmark of a considerate poster.

to see if
there are any experienced computer programmers who would like to provide
some assistance with an effort to develop a Perl language computer program.

Interested parties can try contacting me by e-mail or by posting a
response note to the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup. They would need to
download a recent (free) MSI copy of Perl from the ActiveState Web site and
get it running on a Windows XP or Vista system.

http://www.activestate.com

This is a little backwards, one usually presents their research topic
*first* and their contact info *last*. The reason? SO PEOPLE KNOW
WHAT THE @#$(&#!@ YOU ARE WORKING ON! Ok, I'll bite, keep reading...

I am presently using Perl 5.8.8

Whoop-de-doo for you.

but plan to upgrade to the latest
version as soon as possible. People can use Windows 98 if that is the only
operating system available. Perl also runs on other operating systems. But
at this time I specifically need help with the Windows version.

I suspect Perl is largely the same Perl on all those platforms. Win
98? Is this a zombie spam from the turn of the century?

The goal is to have a single Perl program (or modules) perform functions
that have been done by a sizeable collection of other language programs in
the past.

Doing what!? Grrr..., keep reading, there's gotta be a punch line...

Help is presently needed with learning how to get Perl to generate
charts and also produce standalone .exe copies of itself. The plan is to
then make those .exe copies available to other scientific researchers around
the world for free use along with free use updates when they become
available. If other researchers wish to get Perl running on their own
computers then they will probably also be given the source code for the
original program for free use so that they can do their own development
work.

Ohmigod, is Google broken? Or has Perl gone this long and this far
without support for creating charts and graphs? Sounds like about 10
minutes of research.

Perl was originally chosen because it is quite versatile, is a free
download, and is supported both by ActiveState and quite a few independent
programmers. So other researchers could get their own versions running
without having to worry about viruses or cost.

(Why is this posted on all these non-Perl newsgroups, then? I've
*seen* Perl already, and never want to again!)

So far the work is fairly advanced. The effort has been underway for at
least a decade.

.... and we are just getting around to plotting some data.

The core data generation program was formally copyrighted
several years ago.

Red flag #37 - "formally copyrighted", wooo-ooooh

My present version of Perl will send data to Windows as
if it were being manually typed into the keyboard (important for controlling
other programs). And it can directed to respond to most keystrokes even
when another program is the active one. Unfortunately, Windows also
presently responds to those keystrokes. And that complicates things a bit.

.... and has for the past decade, and I still haven't figured it out.

Not being a professional computer programmer I have been finding it
difficult to get new features such as a chart generating ability merged with
and running with Perl. And the entire research project is now being slowed
as a result. One of my colleagues has done an extensive amount of work with
Basic. And I even offered to pay him to help with the Perl development
effort. But after he downloaded a copy of Perl and examined it he decided
that this would involve too much effort. I have to agree with him.

Maybe that up-front language choice could stand a review...

Once it is possible to create charts and .exe versions the plan is for
researchers around the world to develop Perl modules for generating a
variety of data related to sun, moon, planet, ocean tide crest and trough,
and Solid Earth Tide locations. Most of those data can already be generated
with other programs. Some of the data are not yet available anywhere as far
as I am aware. If the effort is unusually successful the Perl program (or
modules) might eventually be converted to CGI programs that will run at one
or more Internet Web sites.

AHHH! The "research", I almost forgot! Why is it left to the end of
the message? And do we still know what the @#(*&$ this "variety of
data" is for? I'm going to take a wild guess here - earthquake
prediction? perpetual motion? picking guaranteed-to-win lottery
numbers?

After a pitch like that, who could not be tempted at the prospect of
"generating a variety of data related to sun, moon, etc. etc."? Sign
me up - NOT!

GTFA,
-- Paul

 

[Tim Couper]

Paul

Excellent post .. brightens up the otherwise hum-drum life!

Tim

Dr Tim Couper
CTO, SciVisum Ltd

www.scivisum.com

 

[dave_w]

Always the hallmark of a considerate poster.




This is a little backwards, one usually presents their research topic
*first* and their contact info *last*. The reason? SO PEOPLE KNOW
WHAT THE @#$(&#!@ YOU ARE WORKING ON! Ok, I'll bite, keep reading...


Whoop-de-doo for you.


I suspect Perl is largely the same Perl on all those platforms. Win
98? Is this a zombie spam from the turn of the century?


Doing what!? Grrr..., keep reading, there's gotta be a punch line...


Ohmigod, is Google broken? Or has Perl gone this long and this far
without support for creating charts and graphs? Sounds like about 10
minutes of research.


(Why is this posted on all these non-Perl newsgroups, then? I've
*seen* Perl already, and never want to again!)


... and we are just getting around to plotting some data.


Red flag #37 - "formally copyrighted", wooo-ooooh


... and has for the past decade, and I still haven't figured it out.


Maybe that up-front language choice could stand a review...


AHHH! The "research", I almost forgot! Why is it left to the end of
the message? And do we still know what the @#(*&$ this "variety of
data" is for? I'm going to take a wild guess here - earthquake
prediction? perpetual motion? picking guaranteed-to-win lottery
numbers?

After a pitch like that, who could not be tempted at the prospect of
"generating a variety of data related to sun, moon, etc. etc."? Sign
me up - NOT!

GTFA,
-- Paul

Thanks for the amusing reply Paul, i think you summed up a few
people's feelings quite fairly, but maybe a little more tact next
time?

I'm going to begin my answer with the age old taboo of 'use a
different language', but since you cross-posted to comp.lang.python, i
feel justified.

so... use python.

you didnt exactly state what you wanted out of the project, so i'm
going to take a few guesses.

if you want astrophysical data, there is a python module which is
based on NASA JPL's ephemerides system, you can find it here:

http://www.cv.nrao.edu/~rfisher/Python/py_solar_system.html

and yes, i know there is Astro::SLA on CPAN.

if you want (basic) ocean/tidal modelling, you can use this (again...
python)

http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~cdieterich/swom/

or take a look at this PDF entitled 'python for assembling climate
modelling toolkits':

www.esmf.ucar.edu/presentations/pres_0305_jacobs.pdf

if you want to connect to online databases etc., using urllib2 (a
standard python module), you can fetch the data you need in only a few
lines of code (and i mean 2 or 3 lines for basic requests)

for plotting... use matplotlib, in most python programmers minds it
has reached legendary status.

if you're still thinking about plotting in Perl, look here

http://biptest.weizmann.ac.il/course/prog/graphics/success.html

it is the graphing page from the Weizmann institute in Israel which
does a course entitled 'Perl programming course for bioinformatics and
internet'; perhaps you could use some of your research money to send
someone on the course?

and if you want to put graphs online, you can use matplotlib server
side to generate a jpg for example, and then show that using html
(again, not very many lines of code).

without knowing exactly what needs accomplished, i ts difficult to
help, but it seems like most of your programming has already been
done, and just needs some code to glue different modules together
(trust me on this one - use python).

with python, matplotlib etc, everything is cross platform, if it is
web-based access you're after, it doesnt matter what platform you
develop on
you also talk about generating standalone .exe files - use py2exe w/
NSIS, or pyInstaller, both of which have tutorials online.

most importantly of all... re-read Paul's post above.
if you don't find it as amusing as the rest of us, here's the gist...

"Ohmigod, is Google broken?"

cheers
Dave

 

[James Stroud]

GTFA,

Very funny. I'm sure it would have been funnier if I had the patience to
read the original posting. I'm guessing you paraphrased the content
sufficiently well in your reply.

--
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/

 

[Guest]

Where is Perl described in the C standard? This seems rather OT.

A little OT for basic groups, too. Followups set.

Fortran group dropped, too.

 

[E.D.G.]

My main Perl program is presently about 3500 lines of code long and 160 KB
in size. So I am not too anxious to translate it into another language.

The problem I am having is largely with the mechanics of linking modules to
the Perl compiler etc. So I am looking for experts who can help with
cookbook instructions, start with step 1, step 2, step 3 etc.

With trying to find a chart program to use for example, there appear to be a
number of them. But from examining their instructions it looks like most of
them must also be linked to a third program called Gnuplot. And that
increases the complexity of getting something running.

 

[Keith Thompson]

It has been my experience that a person who is an expert with one computer
language can usually do reasonably well when working with other languages.
I am trying to find some people who can assist with getting a Perl program
running. It would probably be easier for expert programmers in any language
to help with this type of work compared with people such as myself who are
not experts in any programming language.

CBFalconer's point is that this newsgroup (comp.lang.c, where he and I
are both reading this) is for discussion of the C programming
language. If you want to discuss something other than C, please find
another forum. Massive cross-posts like this are rarely appropriate.

 

[E.D.G.]

:

Where is Perl described in the C standard? This seems rather OT.

It has been my experience that a person who is an expert with one computer
language can usually do reasonably well when working with other languages.
I am trying to find some people who can assist with getting a Perl program
running. It would probably be easier for expert programmers in any language
to help with this type of work compared with people such as myself who are
not experts in any programming language.

 

[mecej4]

My main Perl program is presently about 3500 lines of code long and 160 KB
in size. So I am not too anxious to translate it into another language.

Apparently, having painted himself into a corner, our warrior wants a
few expert roofers to slither up and extricate him.

One of the best experiences that a programmer can have is that of
admitting that the lovingly nurtured brainchild is now terminally ill,
and showing enough fortitude to make a fresh start.

The problem I am having is largely with the mechanics of linking modules to
the Perl compiler etc. So I am looking for experts who can help with
cookbook instructions, start with step 1, step 2, step 3 etc.

Experts saintly enough to salvage the possibly hopeless would some idea
of whether they are being asked to donate their time to work on a
fundamentally flawed design.

With trying to find a chart program to use for example, there appear to be a
number of them. But from examining their instructions it looks like most of
them must also be linked to a third program called Gnuplot. And that
increases the complexity of getting something running.

Since Perl, as also most other general purpose languages, has no
plotting primitives or intrinsics,
you will have to use _some_ graphics protocol -- there is no escaping that.

Gnuplot is by no means the only choice, but it is simple and provides
a wide selection of output devices. Your Perl program can write the plot
script to a
file, and call Gnuplot to run that script.

-- mecej4

 

[E.D.G.]

Important Research Project (Related to computer programming)

Posted by E.D.G. on August 30, 2007 (e-mail address removed)

This effort was not successful. And I am returning to trying to slowly
make progress with the computer program I have been developing.

I was hoping that there might be some people who had Perl chart and .exe
generation programs running on their own computer who could say, "Here is
how to merge them with Perl; here is how to use them; this is what they will
do, etc." Or, I was hoping that someone would respond and say that although
they are using Fortran or Basic etc. instead of Perl, they would be
interested in getting a copy of Perl running, determine how to get those
routines running, and then pass along the information. That would have
saved some time.

I work on these projects all the time. And it has been my experience
that the world of science does not have the type of organized structure at
this time to enable people to easily obtain that type of assistance. I have
established an organization which will hopefully help with that problem. It
might be going public at a Web site some time in the next year.

There were some questions regarding the computer program I discussed. This
is what it does:

It provides researchers with the a certain amount of ability to
determine if different events are somehow linked with one another. For
example, it can be used to compare two or more earthquakes, earthquakes and
electromagnetic pulses, tornados and electromagnetic pulses, and even
earthquakes and tornados etc.

It makes it possible for people to study events taking place deep in the
Earth by evaluating electromagnetic pulse data associated with those events.
Under the right conditions it can be used to forecast earthquakes. That is
the reason it was developed in the first place. You can see the type of
data it generates at the following Web page:

http://www.freewebz.com/eq-forecasting/Data.html

The plan is that when it has chart and standalone .exe program file
generation capabilities, program copies will be circulated within the
earthquake forecasting community in the People's Republic of China. It was
discussed in detail there at a scientific conference in December of 2003.
At that time it was too complex for widespread use.

After the chart feature becomes operational etc. I am also planning to
contact U.S. government officials to see if one or more lectures can be
organized regarding the basic technology and theories, and the program's
capabilities.

These are personal opinions.

 

[Tim Couper]

a. If you had no response from a mailing, it probably means you have no
takers.

b. The fact that you send a request about a perl development to a python
mailing list raises concerns about your understanding of the nature of
this interest group

c. The technology you are trying to develop seems to be well developed
in, for example, python.

d. If you are in academia, you should be able to readily find comp sci
undergrads or graduates who might be able to help you for a
comparatively small remuneration.

Tim

Dr Tim Couper
CTO, SciVisum Ltd

www.scivisum.com

 

[George Sakkis]

This effort was not successful.

Shocking, isn't it ?

And I am returning to trying to slowly
make progress with the computer program I have been developing.

You might have more luck if you read http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#forum
before asking for help again.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

CBFalconer's point is that this newsgroup (comp.lang.c, where he and I
are both reading this) is for discussion of the C programming
language. If you want to discuss something other than C, please find
another forum. Massive cross-posts like this are rarely appropriate.

IOW (for the OP and for the various readers in all these groups):

The rod up Keith's butt has a rod up its butt.

Note, incidentally, that this thread is yet the latest occurrence of a
phenomenon that I've observed many times in the past, and have
described here in clc on more than a few occasions. That is, somebody
starts a thread, posted to several different groups, in the hope of
getting help from at least one of them. The thread is pretty much
on-topic for most of the groups, primarily because the keepers of most
of the groups do not have rods up their butts.

However, and this is the big however, one of the groups listed just
happens to be clc, where rod-filled butts are the norm. The result is
that all of the responses come from clc (including, of course, this one)
and, as we see, it's all topicality BS, and nobody ever ends up
discussing the original subject. Really a pity, that.

 

[Steve Holden]

IOW (for the OP and for the various readers in all these groups):

The rod up Keith's butt has a rod up its butt.

Note, incidentally, that this thread is yet the latest occurrence of a
phenomenon that I've observed many times in the past, and have
described here in clc on more than a few occasions. That is, somebody
starts a thread, posted to several different groups, in the hope of
getting help from at least one of them. The thread is pretty much
on-topic for most of the groups, primarily because the keepers of most
of the groups do not have rods up their butts.

However, and this is the big however, one of the groups listed just
happens to be clc, where rod-filled butts are the norm. The result is
that all of the responses come from clc (including, of course, this one)
and, as we see, it's all topicality BS, and nobody ever ends up
discussing the original subject. Really a pity, that.

Well I am reading your response "here" on c.l.py, where there are no
keepers because the lunatics have taken over the asylum. If clc has to
deal with attitudes like yours then it seems there are two sides to the
problem. Your own behavior would also be considered marginally
acceptable, containing as it does an unsubstantiated ad hominem attack.

Quite what you think you were doing to encourage the thread back
on-topic I have no idea. While the OP may have been uninformed about the
nature of usenet, at least he made his request in a polite and
unobjectionable fashion. He received some good advice together with a
certain amount of predictable but probably not fully-deserved hostility.

Everybody makes mistakes. Just let them go by and give your fingers a
rest. You can't police everyone, and you would be foolish to try. Save
your efforts for the real trolls like Xah Lee, or are you fortunate
enough to miss his folk wisdom on clc?

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
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----------- Thank You for Reading -------------

 

[E.D.G.]

I have the Gnuplot graphics program running now with Windows XP. And it
looks like it will work for my application.
http://www.gnuplot.info