In praise of Eclipse

Discussion in 'Java' started by Roedy Green, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    I made a number of tentative pokes at Eclipse before hanging in there
    long enough to want to switch over.

    It is not nearly as complicated as you might first think.

    The biggest problem is knowing what they mean by a workspace, and
    project, and a perspective. They sound grand and mysterious,but
    simple as could be.

    a workspace is simple the aggregate of all the source and class files
    in a one directory tree.

    It consists of several projects, each with many packages, each with
    many classes.

    The key is understanding that a project is not the same as a package
    as you may be used to thinking

    Eclipse has all kinds of optional windows, called views, you can bring
    up or dismiss. One of my favourites is the package explorer that lets
    you find any method or variable in any class in any package.

    A "perspective" then is just a convenient combination of windows/views
    -- a layout so that you can quickly bring up a convenient set for
    editing, debugging, running or any other task.

    Whomever assigned the keystrokes never used Windows. None of them map
    by default to the usual Windows places, not even F3. However, that
    all can be rectified with patience.

    It is a whole different style of working where you hand over more and
    more editing and fixing to Eclipse. Coming back it feels as if my Text
    editor is lazy or asleep.

    I make great use of the format and method reordering to keep programs
    tidy rather than for example taking effort to insert a new variable or
    method where it logically belongs. Just stick it at the end or right
    next the method you are working on, then let Eclipse clean it up.

    Don't waste keystrokes fiddling with the stars or spacing, or line
    length in comments. Eclipse will clean it all up.

    Use the global rename to get the names of thing absolutely perfect to
    avoid ambiguities. When the code is about done you can use longer
    names that will bake the code clearer for maintenance.

    I have never used a debugger that so seamlessly integrated. It points
    you to the exact place in the code every time. It does not ignore
    some breakpoints, or refuse to divulge the values of some variables
    when you hit a breakpoint. It knows the types of everything.

    The place that give me the biggest hassle is jar building. Eclipse
    can't seem to build a decent jar so I export and do it the old
    fashioned way. However all my pent-up class renaming, splitting, and
    moving around that I do drives that process nuts. My lists of what to
    include in the jars are always badly out of date.

    I have despised ant as a lot of fuss to do what you could more easily
    do with a simple bat file, but I guess I will have to learn it
    properly to use genjar.


    The bottom line, give Eclipse a try, and stick with it for a few days.
    It really is far far simpler than it first looks. This is so much
    faster than the old text editor way of writing code.



    --
    Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm

    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
     
    Roedy Green, Jul 14, 2005
    #1
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  2. Roedy Green

    Wibble Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > I made a number of tentative pokes at Eclipse before hanging in there
    > long enough to want to switch over.
    >
    > It is not nearly as complicated as you might first think.
    >
    > The biggest problem is knowing what they mean by a workspace, and
    > project, and a perspective. They sound grand and mysterious,but
    > simple as could be.
    >
    > a workspace is simple the aggregate of all the source and class files
    > in a one directory tree.
    >
    > It consists of several projects, each with many packages, each with
    > many classes.
    >
    > The key is understanding that a project is not the same as a package
    > as you may be used to thinking
    >
    > Eclipse has all kinds of optional windows, called views, you can bring
    > up or dismiss. One of my favourites is the package explorer that lets
    > you find any method or variable in any class in any package.
    >
    > A "perspective" then is just a convenient combination of windows/views
    > -- a layout so that you can quickly bring up a convenient set for
    > editing, debugging, running or any other task.
    >
    > Whomever assigned the keystrokes never used Windows. None of them map
    > by default to the usual Windows places, not even F3. However, that
    > all can be rectified with patience.
    >
    > It is a whole different style of working where you hand over more and
    > more editing and fixing to Eclipse. Coming back it feels as if my Text
    > editor is lazy or asleep.
    >
    > I make great use of the format and method reordering to keep programs
    > tidy rather than for example taking effort to insert a new variable or
    > method where it logically belongs. Just stick it at the end or right
    > next the method you are working on, then let Eclipse clean it up.
    >
    > Don't waste keystrokes fiddling with the stars or spacing, or line
    > length in comments. Eclipse will clean it all up.
    >
    > Use the global rename to get the names of thing absolutely perfect to
    > avoid ambiguities. When the code is about done you can use longer
    > names that will bake the code clearer for maintenance.
    >
    > I have never used a debugger that so seamlessly integrated. It points
    > you to the exact place in the code every time. It does not ignore
    > some breakpoints, or refuse to divulge the values of some variables
    > when you hit a breakpoint. It knows the types of everything.
    >
    > The place that give me the biggest hassle is jar building. Eclipse
    > can't seem to build a decent jar so I export and do it the old
    > fashioned way. However all my pent-up class renaming, splitting, and
    > moving around that I do drives that process nuts. My lists of what to
    > include in the jars are always badly out of date.
    >
    > I have despised ant as a lot of fuss to do what you could more easily
    > do with a simple bat file, but I guess I will have to learn it
    > properly to use genjar.
    >
    >
    > The bottom line, give Eclipse a try, and stick with it for a few days.
    > It really is far far simpler than it first looks. This is so much
    > faster than the old text editor way of writing code.
    >
    >
    >

    This is the second time you praised eclipse for doing what every IDE
    does and everybody here knows anyway. I'd think they were paying you if
    they weren't open source.
     
    Wibble, Jul 14, 2005
    #2
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  3. Roedy Green

    Steve Sobol Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:

    > Whomever assigned the keystrokes never used Windows. None of them map
    > by default to the usual Windows places, not even F3. However, that
    > all can be rectified with patience.


    I think it can also be rectified by customizing the keyboard layout.
    (Although I'm not 100% sure and I haven't tried doing that yet.)

    > The place that give me the biggest hassle is jar building. Eclipse
    > can't seem to build a decent jar so I export and do it the old
    > fashioned way. However all my pent-up class renaming, splitting, and
    > moving around that I do drives that process nuts. My lists of what to
    > include in the jars are always badly out of date.


    I don't have a problem with the jar builder.

    I do, however, miss NetBeans' virtual filesystems. It would be wonderful if
    I could mount a filesystem over FTP, CVS or DAV instead of having to import,
    synchronize, blah blah blah. FTP/DAV issues I can get around by mapping a
    Windows drive using WebDrive, but CVS isn't as easy. OTOH, I expect to have
    to do checkins and checkouts via CVS. I'd like to save via FTP/DAV by just
    using the Save menu item.

    > I have despised ant as a lot of fuss to do what you could more easily
    > do with a simple bat file, but I guess I will have to learn it
    > properly to use genjar.


    It has some Java-specific features that do prove useful at times.

    **SJS (Eclipse convert!)

    --
    JustThe.net - Steve Sobol / / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Coming to you from Southern California's High Desert, where the
    temperatures are as high as the gas prices! / 888.480.4NET (4638)

    "Life's like an hourglass glued to the table" --Anna Nalick, "Breathe"
     
    Steve Sobol, Jul 14, 2005
    #3
  4. Roedy Green

    Hal Rosser Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I made a number of tentative pokes at Eclipse before hanging in there
    > long enough to want to switch over.
    >
    > It is not nearly as complicated as you might first think.
    >
    > The biggest problem is knowing what they mean by a workspace, and
    > project, and a perspective. They sound grand and mysterious,but
    > simple as could be.
    >
    > a workspace is simple the aggregate of all the source and class files
    > in a one directory tree.
    >
    > It consists of several projects, each with many packages, each with
    > many classes.
    >
    > The key is understanding that a project is not the same as a package
    > as you may be used to thinking
    >
    > Eclipse has all kinds of optional windows, called views, you can bring
    > up or dismiss. One of my favourites is the package explorer that lets
    > you find any method or variable in any class in any package.
    >
    > A "perspective" then is just a convenient combination of windows/views
    > -- a layout so that you can quickly bring up a convenient set for
    > editing, debugging, running or any other task.
    >
    > Whomever assigned the keystrokes never used Windows. None of them map
    > by default to the usual Windows places, not even F3. However, that
    > all can be rectified with patience.
    >
    > It is a whole different style of working where you hand over more and
    > more editing and fixing to Eclipse. Coming back it feels as if my Text
    > editor is lazy or asleep.
    >
    > I make great use of the format and method reordering to keep programs
    > tidy rather than for example taking effort to insert a new variable or
    > method where it logically belongs. Just stick it at the end or right
    > next the method you are working on, then let Eclipse clean it up.
    >
    > Don't waste keystrokes fiddling with the stars or spacing, or line
    > length in comments. Eclipse will clean it all up.
    >
    > Use the global rename to get the names of thing absolutely perfect to
    > avoid ambiguities. When the code is about done you can use longer
    > names that will bake the code clearer for maintenance.
    >
    > I have never used a debugger that so seamlessly integrated. It points
    > you to the exact place in the code every time. It does not ignore
    > some breakpoints, or refuse to divulge the values of some variables
    > when you hit a breakpoint. It knows the types of everything.
    >
    > The place that give me the biggest hassle is jar building. Eclipse
    > can't seem to build a decent jar so I export and do it the old
    > fashioned way. However all my pent-up class renaming, splitting, and
    > moving around that I do drives that process nuts. My lists of what to
    > include in the jars are always badly out of date.
    >
    > I have despised ant as a lot of fuss to do what you could more easily
    > do with a simple bat file, but I guess I will have to learn it
    > properly to use genjar.
    >
    >
    > The bottom line, give Eclipse a try, and stick with it for a few days.
    > It really is far far simpler than it first looks. This is so much
    > faster than the old text editor way of writing code.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    > Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    > http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm
    >
    > Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    > See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes


    You lose all credibility and respect as a person by smearing our President.
    Keep it to Java, please.
     
    Hal Rosser, Jul 14, 2005
    #4
  5. Roedy Green

    Steve Sobol Guest

    Hal Rosser wrote:

    > You lose all credibility and respect as a person by smearing our President.


    Smearing?

    Bush has a lot of issues. Some people take much offense when some of those
    issues are pointed out. But let's move on to the important part of your reply:

    > Keep it to Java, please.


    Well, considering that you were referring to his SIGNATURE, and considering
    that the body of his post WAS not offtopic for the group, I think you're a
    little off-base.

    I think you're off-base in the same way that people complaining about sigs
    like mine being spam are off-base. Signatures are bits of text appended to a
    post. They don't constitute the body of a post.

    Roedy's post about the Eclipse IDE wasn't offtopic. It is primarily a Java
    IDE, and it is used by Java programmers. We're talking about someone who
    posts content to this group. We're not talking about someone who happened to
    post an offtopic political rant in a programming group...

    --
    JustThe.net - Steve Sobol / / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Coming to you from Southern California's High Desert, where the
    temperatures are as high as the gas prices! / 888.480.4NET (4638)

    "Life's like an hourglass glued to the table" --Anna Nalick, "Breathe"
     
    Steve Sobol, Jul 14, 2005
    #5
  6. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 23:18:06 -0400, "Hal Rosser"
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >> Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    >> Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    >> http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm
    >>
    >> Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    >> See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes

    >
    >You lose all credibility and respect as a person by smearing our President.
    >Keep it to Java, please.


    I'm not smearing. Follow the URL. Rumsfeld confesses!

    People are unaware of this.


    --
    Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm

    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
     
    Roedy Green, Jul 14, 2005
    #6
  7. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:08:38 -0400, Wibble <>
    wrote or quoted :

    >This is the second time you praised eclipse for doing what every IDE
    >does and everybody here knows anyway. I'd think they were paying you if
    >they weren't open source.


    The intended audience for that post is people who are still using text
    editors for creating code. They are likely doing that because Jbuilder
    shoved them out the door years ago with the $1K+ prices.

    --
    Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm

    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
     
    Roedy Green, Jul 14, 2005
    #7
  8. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 19:14:43 -0700, Steve Sobol <>
    wrote or quoted :

    >> Whomever assigned the keystrokes never used Windows. None of them map
    >> by default to the usual Windows places, not even F3. However, that
    >> all can be rectified with patience.

    >
    >I think it can also be rectified by customizing the keyboard layout.
    >(Although I'm not 100% sure and I haven't tried doing that yet.)


    I have an unusual keyboard, a DsK Kinesis. Ctrl-shift is done with
    shift with the left pinky simultaneously with ctrl with the left
    thumb, leaving the right hand to cross over and hit the letter. It is
    the sort of keyboard moves Liszt would write for himself and his giant
    hands.

    Obviously Eclipse's many keystrokes chords were not created with this
    keyboard in mind.

    --
    Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm

    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
     
    Roedy Green, Jul 14, 2005
    #8
  9. Roedy Green

    Chris Smith Guest

    Hal Rosser <> wrote:
    > Keep it to Java, please.
    >


    Oddly enough, I saw a lot more helpful Java-related content in Roedy's
    post than in yours. Please don't spam technical newsgroups with your
    complaints about lack of respect for the president of the United States.
    It's not only off-topic, but very inconsiderate and rude.

    (Incidentally, you realize this is an international newsgroup, right?
    It's not limited to Americans, and Roedy is not an American.)

    --
    www.designacourse.com
    The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

    Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
    MindIQ Corporation
     
    Chris Smith, Jul 14, 2005
    #9
  10. Roedy Green

    jan V Guest

    > >This is the second time you praised eclipse for doing what every IDE
    > >does and everybody here knows anyway. I'd think they were paying you if
    > >they weren't open source.

    >
    > The intended audience for that post is people who are still using text
    > editors for creating code. They are likely doing that because Jbuilder
    > shoved them out the door years ago with the $1K+ prices.


    I've recently had the pleasure of working on a project using IntelliJ.. it's
    $500 a seat, but oh boy does it put you in a different coding league
    altogether. I used to be a Netbeans fan... now, back on my free NetBeans
    (can't afford my own license for IntelliJ), I'm cursing Netbeans for being
    so "asleep and lazy" to use your expression.

    I did have a look at Eclipse, and thought it was very clunky compared to
    IntelliJ. Also it forces you to have Internet Explorer x.x on your machine,
    and that's a virus magnet, so no thanks.

    ---

    PS. No I didn't get a dime to write the above, it's just a statement of my
    experience with the product.
     
    jan V, Jul 14, 2005
    #10
  11. Roedy Green

    jan V Guest

    > > Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    > > Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    > > http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm
    > >
    > > Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    > > See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes

    >
    > You lose all credibility and respect as a person by smearing our

    President.

    On the contrary. He deserves praise for showing integrity and guts and using
    his right to freedom of speech in a (rather more) democratic country than
    the US is today. Roedy would never instruct anyone else to go bomb innocent
    children just for economic reasons either.

    "smearing our President"... arsehole.
     
    jan V, Jul 14, 2005
    #11
  12. Roedy Green

    Tim Tyler Guest

    Hal Rosser <> wrote or quoted:
    > "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message


    > > --
    > > Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    > > Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    > > http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm
    > >
    > > Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    > > See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes

    >
    > You lose all credibility and respect as a person by smearing our President.
    > Keep it to Java, please.


    The main problem I see with Roedy's signature is that it takes up
    six lines - which is longer the regulation four lines long.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
     
    Tim Tyler, Jul 14, 2005
    #12
  13. Roedy Green

    Tim Tyler Guest

    jan V <> wrote or quoted:

    > I did have a look at Eclipse, and thought it was very clunky compared to
    > IntelliJ. Also it forces you to have Internet Explorer x.x on your machine,
    > and that's a virus magnet, so no thanks.


    Eclipse doesn't force you to have Internet Explorer on your machine -
    at least not if your are using Linux it doesn't ;-)
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
     
    Tim Tyler, Jul 14, 2005
    #13
  14. Roedy Green

    IchBin Guest

    jan V wrote:
    >>> This is the second time you praised eclipse for doing what every IDE
    >>> does and everybody here knows anyway. I'd think they were paying you if
    >>> they weren't open source.

    >> The intended audience for that post is people who are still using text
    >> editors for creating code. They are likely doing that because Jbuilder
    >> shoved them out the door years ago with the $1K+ prices.

    >
    > I've recently had the pleasure of working on a project using IntelliJ.. it's
    > $500 a seat, but oh boy does it put you in a different coding league
    > altogether. I used to be a Netbeans fan... now, back on my free NetBeans
    > (can't afford my own license for IntelliJ), I'm cursing Netbeans for being
    > so "asleep and lazy" to use your expression.
    >
    > I did have a look at Eclipse, and thought it was very clunky compared to
    > IntelliJ. Also it forces you to have Internet Explorer x.x on your machine,
    > and that's a virus magnet, so no thanks.
    >
    > ---
    >
    > PS. No I didn't get a dime to write the above, it's just a statement of my
    > experience with the product.
    >
    >

    I run Eclipse 3.1 on Windows XP SP 2. It doesn't force you to have
    Internet Explorer on your machine.

    look under menu item 'Window'

    'Preferences \ General \ Web Browser'

    or for displaying the Help information

    'Under Preferences \ Help'

    --


    Thanks in Advance...
    IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com
    __________________________________________________________________________

    ' If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"'
    -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-)
     
    IchBin, Jul 14, 2005
    #14
  15. On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:32:45 GMT, Tim Tyler wrote:

    > ..signature is that it takes up
    > six lines - which is longer the regulation


    ...'regulation'? [1]

    >..four lines long.


    [1] The closest I have seen to 'regulation' of these
    unmoderated groups is RFC 1855, a copy of which can be
    seen here.. <http://www.physci.org/rfc/rfc1855.jsp>.

    The only mention it contains as to sig. length is a
    single point under ..
    <http://www.physci.org/rfc/rfc1855.jsp#2_1_1>
    ...to whit..

    2.1 User Guidelines
    2.1.1 For mail
    ...
    - "If you include a signature keep it short. Rule of thumb
    is no longer than 4 lines. .."

    Note - 'rule of thumb', not 'regulation'.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info
    Beats A Hard Kick In The Face
     
    Andrew Thompson, Jul 15, 2005
    #15
  16. Roedy Green

    EricF Guest

    In article <>, lid wrote:
    >On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:32:45 GMT, Tim Tyler wrote:
    >
    >> ..signature is that it takes up
    >> six lines - which is longer the regulation

    >
    >...'regulation'? [1]
    >
    >>..four lines long.

    >
    >[1] The closest I have seen to 'regulation' of these
    >unmoderated groups is RFC 1855, a copy of which can be
    >seen here.. <http://www.physci.org/rfc/rfc1855.jsp>.
    >
    >The only mention it contains as to sig. length is a
    >single point under ..
    ><http://www.physci.org/rfc/rfc1855.jsp#2_1_1>
    >...to whit..
    >
    >2.1 User Guidelines
    >2.1.1 For mail
    >...
    >- "If you include a signature keep it short. Rule of thumb
    >is no longer than 4 lines. .."
    >
    >Note - 'rule of thumb', not 'regulation'.


    Jeez peoples. can we get back to Java? Or request a new group -
    alt.whineAboutSignaturesThatIDisgreeWith
     
    EricF, Jul 15, 2005
    #16
  17. Roedy Green

    Dale King Guest

    Steve Sobol wrote:
    > Hal Rosser wrote:
    >
    >> You lose all credibility and respect as a person by smearing our
    >> President.

    >
    >
    > Smearing?


    Yes, smearing. "Bush crime family" is definitely smearing.

    > Bush has a lot of issues. Some people take much offense when some of
    > those issues are pointed out.


    I think its more that some people have issues with Bush.

    But the important thing is that this is not the forum to discuss any of
    that. Roedy posting that nonsense in his signature is inviting
    discussion of it which has already consumed dozens of messages in
    multiple threads, which is harming this group.


    --
    Dale King
     
    Dale King, Jul 16, 2005
    #17
  18. Roedy Green

    Dale King Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 23:18:06 -0400, "Hal Rosser"
    > <> wrote or quoted :
    >
    >
    >>>Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    >>>Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    >>>http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm
    >>>
    >>>Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    >>>See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes

    >>
    >>You lose all credibility and respect as a person by smearing our President.
    >>Keep it to Java, please.

    >
    > I'm not smearing. Follow the URL. Rumsfeld confesses!


    This nonsense is not worthy of a response, but here goes.

    Actually the URL is not valid. There is no infowars.com. But I found the
    transcript on another site and I see no confession of anything by
    Rumsfeld in that transcript. He actually says little of anything of
    substance in that testimony and nothing on the question of missing money
    other than we'll get back to you on that. The only one that addresses
    that issue is the comptroller Tina Jonas. The only mention of Bush is a
    reference to the speech he gave at the U.N.

    Your other link is also not up to date. But it contains so much nonsense
    it is not worth going to. Roedy, if you want people to listen to you on
    Java you really don't want to point people to that site, because they'll
    definitely consider you a kook reading your wacky conspiracy theories.
    That site also contains many, many graphic pictures that are not
    appropriate for younger readers.

    But once again none of this has anything to do with Java, is untrue, and
    is hurting this group. Take it elsewhere!

    --
    Dale King
     
    Dale King, Jul 16, 2005
    #18
  19. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 07:44:03 GMT, Dale King
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >
    >Yes, smearing. "Bush crime family" is definitely smearing.


    Smearing is making an untrue accusation. I am pointing you to a video
    where Rumsfeld explains that he indeed did "lose" that vast amount of
    money.

    People have opinions on the video without even viewing it.

    --
    Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm

    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
     
    Roedy Green, Jul 16, 2005
    #19
  20. Roedy Green

    Dale King Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 07:44:03 GMT, Dale King
    > <> wrote or quoted :
    >
    >
    >>Yes, smearing. "Bush crime family" is definitely smearing.

    >
    >
    > Smearing is making an untrue accusation. I am pointing you to a video
    > where Rumsfeld explains that he indeed did "lose" that vast amount of
    > money.


    As I said, you are actually not pointing to anything because the site
    doesn't exist, Rumsfeld explained nothing, and last I checked even if he
    had he is not a member of the Bush family.

    The figures sited in the transcript are:

    Fiscal year 1999 2.3 Trillion missing
    Fiscal year 2000 1.1 Trillion missing

    In 1999 and 2000 the only members of the Bush family in government
    office were governors of Texas and Florida and had nothing to do with
    the Pentagon. George Bush was not president until January 2001.

    According to the Pentagon the reason they can't account for the money is
    their antiquated computer systems that can't talk to each other. It
    appears like poor accounting rather than actual theft. Hanlon's razor
    applies here: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately
    explained by stupidity. And as we all know there is plenty of stupidity
    in the military.

    However those figures make little sense to me. The DoD budget is around
    400 billion, so how can you be missing 5 times your budget? I'm guessing
    that those figures are cummulative.

    Therefore to claim that a member of the Bush family lost/embezzeled this
    money when no member of the Bush family was in national office is
    definitely smearing. But of course you can't be bothered with facts.
    You've got a political agenda to promote and facts just get in the way.

    > People have opinions on the video without even viewing it.


    I've read the transcript here:
    http://www.internetcheese.com/content/view/94/2/

    The only words of Rumsfeld even addressing the issue (which was question
    number 2) is:

    "We, We will get back on both of the first two questions..."

    And once again none of this has anything to do with Java and should not
    be discussed here. Take it elsewhere!


    --
    Dale King
     
    Dale King, Jul 16, 2005
    #20
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