In the beginning, let there be HTML

Discussion in 'HTML' started by j, May 1, 2013.

  1. j

    j Guest

    j, May 1, 2013
    #1
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  2. 2013-05-01 6:23, j wrote:

    > A flash from the past for those who have forgotten:
    >
    > http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
    >
    > The first website, brought back for the 20th birthday.


    Last-Modified: Thu, 03 Dec 1992 08:37:20 GMT
    they say; but the content at the URL has varied a lot, as once can see
    at http://www.archive.org (where the oldest version is from 1998, saying
    that the page has gone).

    I can't remember whether they have actually reconstructed the historical
    content or just something that looks like that. In the page source code,
    '<NEXTID N="55">' looks genuine, but <HEADER> suggests some interference
    from HTML5, doesn't it?

    At http://info.cern.ch they celebrate the 20th birthday of something,
    saying: 'On 30 April 1993 CERN published a statement that made World
    Wide Web ("W3", or simply "the web") technology available on a
    royalty-free basis.'

    But at
    http://web.archive.org/web/20121028121830/http://info.cern.ch/www20/
    they say: 'March 2009: 20 years of the web'.

    It's good to have several birthdays. Preferably, more than non-birth days.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, May 1, 2013
    #2
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  3. On 2013-05-01, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    > 2013-05-01 6:23, j wrote:
    >
    >> A flash from the past for those who have forgotten:
    >>
    >> http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
    >>
    >> The first website, brought back for the 20th birthday.

    >
    > Last-Modified: Thu, 03 Dec 1992 08:37:20 GMT
    > they say; but the content at the URL has varied a lot, as once can see
    > at http://www.archive.org (where the oldest version is from 1998, saying
    > that the page has gone).
    >
    > I can't remember whether they have actually reconstructed the historical
    > content or just something that looks like that. In the page source code,
    > '<NEXTID N="55">' looks genuine, but <HEADER> suggests some interference
    > from HTML5, doesn't it?


    No, it's outside the BODY.


    --
    Chris F.A. Johnson
    <http://torontowebdesign.cfaj.ca/>
    Chris F.A. Johnson, May 1, 2013
    #3
  4. j

    Lewis Guest

    In message <klq7op$t6n$> Jukka K. Korpela
    <> wrote:
    > 2013-05-01 6:23, j wrote:


    >> A flash from the past for those who have forgotten:
    >>
    >> http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
    >>
    >> The first website, brought back for the 20th birthday.


    > Last-Modified: Thu, 03 Dec 1992 08:37:20 GMT
    > they say; but the content at the URL has varied a lot, as once can see
    > at http://www.archive.org (where the oldest version is from 1998, saying
    > that the page has gone).


    > I can't remember whether they have actually reconstructed the historical
    > content or just something that looks like that. In the page source code,
    > '<NEXTID N="55">' looks genuine, but <HEADER> suggests some interference
    > from HTML5, doesn't it?


    Header has nothing to do with html5.

    I believe the current 'original' version was found in Sir Tim's
    archives.

    > At http://info.cern.ch they celebrate the 20th birthday of something,
    > saying: 'On 30 April 1993 CERN published a statement that made World
    > Wide Web ("W3", or simply "the web") technology available on a
    > royalty-free basis.'


    > But at
    > http://web.archive.org/web/20121028121830/http://info.cern.ch/www20/
    > they say: 'March 2009: 20 years of the web'.


    > It's good to have several birthdays. Preferably, more than non-birth days.


    March 1989 is when Sir Tim first proposed the idea of something that
    became http and html. The first website went online in 1991, and the
    oldest version of that page is from 1992. The 1993 'birthday' is the
    real birthday of the web because it is when http and html were made
    available for anyone to use for anything they wanted, free from patents
    or royalties. Within 2 years the web exploded, and within another 2
    years, most people were at least aware that it existed, even if it was a
    "geek thing".

    --
    people didn't seem to be able to remember what it was like with the
    elves around. Life was certainly more interesting then, but usually
    because it was shorter. And it was more colourful, if you liked the
    colour of blood. --Lords and Ladies
    Lewis, May 1, 2013
    #4
  5. j

    Tim Streater Guest

    In article <>,
    Lewis <> wrote:

    > In message <klq7op$t6n$> Jukka K. Korpela
    > <> wrote:
    > > 2013-05-01 6:23, j wrote:

    >
    > >> A flash from the past for those who have forgotten:
    > >>
    > >> http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
    > >>
    > >> The first website, brought back for the 20th birthday.

    >
    > > Last-Modified: Thu, 03 Dec 1992 08:37:20 GMT
    > > they say; but the content at the URL has varied a lot, as once can see
    > > at http://www.archive.org (where the oldest version is from 1998, saying
    > > that the page has gone).

    >
    > > I can't remember whether they have actually reconstructed the historical
    > > content or just something that looks like that. In the page source code,
    > > '<NEXTID N="55">' looks genuine, but <HEADER> suggests some interference
    > > from HTML5, doesn't it?

    >
    > Header has nothing to do with html5.
    >
    > I believe the current 'original' version was found in Sir Tim's
    > archives.
    >
    > > At http://info.cern.ch they celebrate the 20th birthday of something,
    > > saying: 'On 30 April 1993 CERN published a statement that made World
    > > Wide Web ("W3", or simply "the web") technology available on a
    > > royalty-free basis.'

    >
    > > But at
    > > http://web.archive.org/web/20121028121830/http://info.cern.ch/www20/
    > > they say: 'March 2009: 20 years of the web'.

    >
    > > It's good to have several birthdays. Preferably, more than non-birth days.

    >
    > March 1989 is when Sir Tim first proposed the idea of something that
    > became http and html. The first website went online in 1991, and the
    > oldest version of that page is from 1992. The 1993 'birthday' is the
    > real birthday of the web because it is when http and html were made
    > available for anyone to use for anything they wanted, free from patents
    > or royalties. Within 2 years the web exploded, and within another 2
    > years, most people were at least aware that it existed, even if it was a
    > "geek thing".


    I remember some of my SLAC colleagues rushing round in early 1992 in
    excited discussions about the "World Wide Web". I didn't have a clue
    what they were talking about.

    --
    Tim

    "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
    Tim Streater, May 1, 2013
    #5
  6. 2013-05-01 9:20, Lewis wrote:

    >> I can't remember whether they have actually reconstructed the historical
    >> content or just something that looks like that. In the page source code,
    >> '<NEXTID N="55">' looks genuine, but <HEADER> suggests some interference
    >> from HTML5, doesn't it?

    >
    > Header has nothing to do with html5.


    My message was not entirely serious, but I really find it interesting
    that the ancient page, or a replica of an ancient page, uses <HE­ADER>,
    which *is* an HTML5 thing too. It is true that here <HEADER> is really
    what later became <HEAD>, as Chris F.A. Johnson alluded to, if I
    understood correctly. Heads, headers, headings – it’s really messy

    >> It's good to have several birthdays. Preferably, more than non-birth days.

    >
    > March 1989 is when Sir Tim first proposed the idea of something that
    > became http and html.


    Well, maybe. The early history of the web is poorly documented, and what
    “Sir Tim†(who wasn’t Sir at that time) wrote that time can be construed
    as the birth of the web in retrospect only.

    > The first website went online in 1991, and the
    > oldest version of that page is from 1992.


    Around that time, the World Wide Web was demonstrated to me, and I was
    underwhelmed. It was clearly inferior to the well-structured Gopher
    system that serious people were working on. It had a line mode
    interface, and it lacked structure and flexibility. The World Wide Web
    that conquered the world later was really something rather different.

    > The 1993 'birthday' is the
    > real birthday of the web because it is when http and html were made
    > available for anyone to use for anything they wanted, free from patents
    > or royalties.


    As I wrote, it’s good to have several birthdays. But the announcement in
    1993 was rather irrelevant both from the perspective of that time and
    from our view. The real change was the advent of Mosaic, the first
    widely available graphic browser. The patent issue was just theory (even
    in our time, computer programs as such are not patentable in the
    European Union, and protocols and markup languages aren’t patentable
    either, so this was all for US lawyers only).

    > Within 2 years the web exploded, and within another 2
    > years, most people were at least aware that it existed, even if it was a
    > "geek thing".


    Well, even Mosaic wasn’t for the general audience really. The most
    important explosion was related to the development of Internet
    connections, more than anything else. I remember how I commented in 1995
    that maybe some day people will be able to use the World Wide Web even
    at home! Right, it was possible at that time too, in principle... but
    with 1,200 bits per second it wasn’t too sexy. So we could find many
    other birthdays, too, more relevant than those that have been
    celebrated. Isn’t it nice when you can celebrate your 20th birthday over
    and over again?

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, May 1, 2013
    #6
  7. j

    j Guest

    On 5/1/2013 2:20 AM, Lewis wrote:> In message
    <klq7op$t6n$> Jukka K. Korpela
    > <> wrote:
    >> 2013-05-01 6:23, j wrote:

    >
    >>> A flash from the past for those who have forgotten:
    >>>
    >>> http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
    >>>
    >>> The first website, brought back for the 20th birthday.

    >
    >> Last-Modified: Thu, 03 Dec 1992 08:37:20 GMT
    >> they say; but the content at the URL has varied a lot, as once can see
    >> at http://www.archive.org (where the oldest version is from 1998, saying
    >> that the page has gone).

    >
    >> I can't remember whether they have actually reconstructed the historical
    >> content or just something that looks like that. In the page source code,
    >> '<NEXTID N="55">' looks genuine, but <HEADER> suggests some interference
    >> from HTML5, doesn't it?

    >
    > Header has nothing to do with html5.


    And no html wrapper. Is html still not a required tag?
    >
    > I believe the current 'original' version was found in Sir Tim's
    > archives.


    Well, if it was the very first web page,there would be no hyperlinks to
    other sites.

    Still, I find it interesting that every one of us looked at the source.
    It's what we do. And the html still works.
    >
    >> At http://info.cern.ch they celebrate the 20th birthday of something,
    >> saying: 'On 30 April 1993 CERN published a statement that made World
    >> Wide Web ("W3", or simply "the web") technology available on a
    >> royalty-free basis.'

    >
    >> But at
    >> http://web.archive.org/web/20121028121830/http://info.cern.ch/www20/
    >> they say: 'March 2009: 20 years of the web'.

    >
    >> It's good to have several birthdays. Preferably, more than non-birth

    days.
    >
    > March 1989 is when Sir Tim first proposed the idea of something that
    > became http and html. The first website went online in 1991, and the
    > oldest version of that page is from 1992. The 1993 'birthday' is the
    > real birthday of the web because it is when http and html were made
    > available for anyone to use for anything they wanted, free from patents
    > or royalties. Within 2 years the web exploded, and within another 2
    > years, most people were at least aware that it existed, even if it was a
    > "geek thing".


    I thought I was a late comer at the time in '95.

    Jeff
    >
    j, May 2, 2013
    #7
  8. j

    Lewis Guest

    In message <klrm8t$da4$>
    Jukka K. Korpela <> wrote:
    > 2013-05-01 9:20, Lewis wrote:


    >>> I can't remember whether they have actually reconstructed the historical
    >>> content or just something that looks like that. In the page source code,
    >>> '<NEXTID N="55">' looks genuine, but <HEADER> suggests some interference
    >>> from HTML5, doesn't it?

    >>
    >> Header has nothing to do with html5.


    > My message was not entirely serious, but I really find it interesting
    > that the ancient page, or a replica of an ancient page, uses <HE­ADER>,
    > which *is* an HTML5 thing too. It is true that here <HEADER> is really
    > what later became <HEAD>, as Chris F.A. Johnson alluded to, if I
    > understood correctly. Heads, headers, headings – it’s really messy


    >>> It's good to have several birthdays. Preferably, more than non-birth days.

    >>
    >> March 1989 is when Sir Tim first proposed the idea of something that
    >> became http and html.


    > Well, maybe. The early history of the web is poorly documented, and what
    > “Sir Tim†(who wasn’t Sir at that time) wrote that time can be construed
    > as the birth of the web in retrospect only.


    >> The first website went online in 1991, and the
    >> oldest version of that page is from 1992.


    > Around that time, the World Wide Web was demonstrated to me, and I was
    > underwhelmed. It was clearly inferior to the well-structured Gopher
    > system that serious people were working on. It had a line mode
    > interface, and it lacked structure and flexibility. The World Wide Web
    > that conquered the world later was really something rather different.


    >> The 1993 'birthday' is the
    >> real birthday of the web because it is when http and html were made
    >> available for anyone to use for anything they wanted, free from patents
    >> or royalties.


    > As I wrote, it’s good to have several birthdays. But the announcement in
    > 1993 was rather irrelevant both from the perspective of that time and
    > from our view. The real change was the advent of Mosaic, the first
    > widely available graphic browser. The patent issue was just theory (even
    > in our time, computer programs as such are not patentable in the
    > European Union, and protocols and markup languages aren’t patentable
    > either, so this was all for US lawyers only).


    >> Within 2 years the web exploded, and within another 2
    >> years, most people were at least aware that it existed, even if it was a
    >> "geek thing".


    > Well, even Mosaic wasn’t for the general audience really. The most
    > important explosion was related to the development of Internet
    > connections, more than anything else. I remember how I commented in 1995
    > that maybe some day people will be able to use the World Wide Web even
    > at home! Right, it was possible at that time too, in principle... but
    > with 1,200 bits per second it wasn’t too sexy. So we could find many
    > other birthdays, too, more relevant than those that have been
    > celebrated. Isn’t it nice when you can celebrate your 20th birthday over
    > and over again?


    In 1995 I had a lot more than a 1200baud modem. I was connecting to a
    UNIX machine (netcom first, then nyx.net), I'm pretty sure in 1995 I was
    already using SLIP to get a GUI connection for Netscape 1.x. Probably
    using a 14.4K dual standard modem.

    Hmm. Actually, I think in 1995 the 56K modems were already out, though I
    think we were not getting 56K connections to the modem pools that early.

    --
    The days of our innocence and grace flow by
    The smiles we wear upon our face blow by
    Lewis, May 3, 2013
    #8
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