Internal linking

[dorayme]

Safari does not happily negotiate

http://tinyurl.com/24y5hp

iCab is quite simply brilliant, FF is fine. I don't know about
IE6 and 7, Mac IE is fine too.

I was surprised by Safari, make the window not too big and see
how it fails to show some of the links. At least on my machine it
does not with some of the links.

What is brilliant about iCab is that it gently flashes
translucent pale blue on the row wanted. Its very own built in
highlighter! Fancy the creators of iCab thinking of this (If all
browsers did this, I would not be seeking help in another thread
about this matter).

Is there something wrong with my code here that Safari is picking
up on? I can remove the underscores, I already changed from "-"
to "_" in case. How robust is it it in other browsers please.

And finally, it does not appear to me very reliable if you just
type or copy and paste a url#... into some browsers address
fields hoping to get to the item concerned. Mac IE refuses to
budge at all on this one. Safari is no good either. Opera was
good, FF good... Other browsers perform variably. I am a bit
curious about all this stuff. I thought all this was rock solid.

 

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Safari does not happily negotiate

http://tinyurl.com/24y5hp

iCab is quite simply brilliant, FF is fine. I don't know about
IE6 and 7, Mac IE is fine too.

I was surprised by Safari, make the window not too big and see
how it fails to show some of the links. At least on my machine it
does not with some of the links.

What is brilliant about iCab is that it gently flashes
translucent pale blue on the row wanted. Its very own built in
highlighter! Fancy the creators of iCab thinking of this...

Creator. The fact that there is just one of him and he does what he
wants, without having to worry about what some executive superiors
think, explains a lot of the brilliance.

 

[dorayme]

Creator. The fact that there is just one of him and he does what he
wants, without having to worry about what some executive superiors
think, explains a lot of the brilliance.

I did have the singular originally and that sounded too knowing
so I put the plural to keep my modest image here. <g>

Seriously, I have written on a couple of issues to Alexander
Klauss and he is always very sharp. I suspected he was the only
one but not completely sure there were not others involved in the
particular matter I referred to.

OK, now, this out of the way, you likely have a Mac. So how about
confirming or giving me your observations about Safari please n
respect of above.

 

[Nikita the Spider]

Safari does not happily negotiate

http://tinyurl.com/24y5hp

iCab is quite simply brilliant, FF is fine. I don't know about
IE6 and 7, Mac IE is fine too.

I was surprised by Safari, make the window not too big and see
how it fails to show some of the links. At least on my machine it
does not with some of the links.

Is there something wrong with my code here that Safari is picking
up on? I can remove the underscores, I already changed from "-"
to "_" in case. How robust is it it in other browsers please.

Some notes...
- I see nothing wrong with your code so Safari is misbehaving here
AFAICT.
- If I move the id from a TR to a TD, Safari is suddenly able to
navigate to the correct row.
- I'm using Safari 1.3.2 under OS 10.3.9
- FF 1.5 seems to have trouble navigating to the exact row; the trouble
goes away if I add this:
table, td,th,tr { border-collapse: collapse; }
- Adding this to the bottom of the page made debugging easier because I
could see whether or not the browser scrolled to the correct row without
being limited by the end of the page
<p style='padding: 30em 1em 30em 1em;'>lksdfjg</p>


HTH

 

[dorayme]

Some notes...
- I see nothing wrong with your code so Safari is misbehaving here
AFAICT.
- If I move the id from a TR to a TD, Safari is suddenly able to
navigate to the correct row.
- I'm using Safari 1.3.2 under OS 10.3.9
- FF 1.5 seems to have trouble navigating to the exact row; the trouble
goes away if I add this:
table, td,th,tr { border-collapse: collapse; }
- Adding this to the bottom of the page made debugging easier because I
could see whether or not the browser scrolled to the correct row without
being limited by the end of the page
<p style='padding: 30em 1em 30em 1em;'>lksdfjg</p>

Thanks so much for this info. I have FF 2 and it seemed fine in
that, I did not suspect about earlier builds.

When you moved the id to td, I assume it was fine for all the
other browsers too.

I _was_ going to fiddle about and try the id in different places.
I already messed about a bit on other things and thought I better
stop!

There seems to be a bit of an instability in all of this, no?
Souns like it is a complicated business for a browser to find a
unique id. Wonder if all this works better without a table at
all to confuse with rows and borders? Also if the older fashioned
name="" instead of or in addition to the id="" might help? Need
to get this business reasonably right.

There is another little issue, an important one for me, don't
know if you know stuff about this, when you open a browser,
fresh, and you type or paste or insert a bookmark with the base
address with #alpha_numeric, some browsers are happy and go to
the right place immediately while others do not (I know Mac IE
does not, it just ignores the appended bit but still gets the
page. And behaves itself in negotiating the internal links!) not
that this is important).

[btw. A very simple rock steady alternative for the job this is
destined for would have been, instead of a table of 100 rows, 100
simple html pages, each with the info that was in each row (and
perhaps a php included index to all the pages on each page! In
fact, the job would have been finished by me already. The things
we do for a bit of elegance! Perhaps I will persist a while
longer though. At least it is instructive and somewhat
interesting.]

 

[Nikita the Spider]

Thanks so much for this info. I have FF 2 and it seemed fine in
that, I did not suspect about earlier builds.

Ooops, I retract my statement. I see I was just getting confused by the
fact that the page isn't very tall, so except for the top 2 or 3 ids, FF
can't scroll the page far enough to reach the other ids. (On my laptop,
anyway.) Making my font size huge makes the page taller and shows me
that FF 1.5 does indeed scroll to the correct point in the page. My
mistake.

When you moved the id to td, I assume it was fine for all the
other browsers too.

I only tested it in Safari. Testing it in the other browsers is your
job. =)

There seems to be a bit of an instability in all of this, no?
Souns like it is a complicated business for a browser to find a
unique id. Wonder if all this works better without a table at
all to confuse with rows and borders? Also if the older fashioned
name="" instead of or in addition to the id="" might help? Need
to get this business reasonably right.

Try it! I don't see any reason why Safari should fail to respect an id
on a TR. Perhaps there's a good reason backed up by a spec, perhaps it's
a bug.

There is another little issue, an important one for me, don't
know if you know stuff about this, when you open a browser,
fresh, and you type or paste or insert a bookmark with the base
address with #alpha_numeric, some browsers are happy and go to
the right place immediately while others do not (I know Mac IE
does not, it just ignores the appended bit but still gets the
page. And behaves itself in negotiating the internal links!) not
that this is important).

You say, "some browsers are happy..." Care to narrow down the
definition of "some browsers"? That seems important. And I don't think
anyone will complain about you not supporting IE/Mac, unless you have an
unusual client base.

[btw. A very simple rock steady alternative for the job this is
destined for would have been, instead of a table of 100 rows, 100
simple html pages, each with the info that was in each row (and
perhaps a php included index to all the pages on each page! In
fact, the job would have been finished by me already. The things
we do for a bit of elegance! Perhaps I will persist a while
longer though. At least it is instructive and somewhat
interesting.]

Elegance is its own reward.

 

[dorayme]

I only tested it in Safari. Testing it in the other browsers is your
job. =)

Damn, you saw through me!

Try it! I don't see any reason why Safari should fail to respect an id
on a TR. Perhaps there's a good reason backed up by a spec, perhaps it's
a bug.

I will. But I can confirm that Safari is happy to find the td
with the id and so my other browsers are as happy. Win IE 6 seems
happy too. Thanks for this Spider.

You say, "some browsers are happy..." Care to narrow down the
definition of "some browsers"? That seems important. And I don't think
anyone will complain about you not supporting IE/Mac, unless you have an
unusual client base.

Well, Safari was not happy but that was perhaps because of the
row issue. Opera was happy, iCab was, FF was. I better wait till
I say anything further.

 

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:15:59
GMT dorayme scribed:

Safari does not happily negotiate

http://tinyurl.com/24y5hp

iCab is quite simply brilliant, FF is fine. I don't know about
IE6 and 7, Mac IE is fine too.

I was surprised by Safari, make the window not too big and see
how it fails to show some of the links. At least on my machine it
does not with some of the links.

What is brilliant about iCab is that it gently flashes
translucent pale blue on the row wanted. Its very own built in
highlighter! Fancy the creators of iCab thinking of this (If all
browsers did this, I would not be seeking help in another thread
about this matter).

Is there something wrong with my code here that Safari is picking
up on? I can remove the underscores, I already changed from "-"
to "_" in case. How robust is it it in other browsers please.

And finally, it does not appear to me very reliable if you just
type or copy and paste a url#... into some browsers address
fields hoping to get to the item concerned. Mac IE refuses to
budge at all on this one. Safari is no good either. Opera was
good, FF good... Other browsers perform variably. I am a bit
curious about all this stuff. I thought all this was rock solid.

I'm confused. Are you just trying to get the row to scroll to the top
when you click on the correct upper internal link? If so, it worked for
me in ie6/ie7/ff2.0.0.6/op9.23. I didn't get no highlighting, though.
And why is your source code completely unformatted? It looks like sh**.

Btw, the real links are all dead. The least you could do is give the
testers some artwork packages for all their troubles.

 

[dorayme]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:15:59
GMT dorayme scribed:

I'm confused. Are you just trying to get the row to scroll to the top
when you click on the correct upper internal link?

Now that would be nice, sure. But it does not happen in all
browsers under all conditions.

And why is your source code completely unformatted? It looks like sh**.

You are right Boji. But it looks nice on my own machine. In fact
I get to cry at its sheer beauty all the time. I have to take
salt tablets to make up.

I have asked about this before, only now and then I get this
problem and have few clues as to why?

I use BBEdit. What should I do to make it look like it is in my
editor? I have tried various things and I do not know well the
actual levers to pull. I have followed instructions about other
things to good effect on BBEdit but this matter, which you have
identified, rears its ugly head every now and then.

Btw, the real links are all dead. The least you could do is give the
testers some artwork packages for all their troubles.

You can send me an email and I will give you the address of the
actual site and you can see some of the stuff if you are
interested. It is not that exciting. But one must earn a
living... It is not anything you would work up a sweat about. I
know you. You have a filthy mind. My work is clean and wholesome.
You would fall asleep. <g>

 

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

[ ... ]

OK, now, this out of the way, you likely have a Mac. So how about
confirming or giving me your observations about Safari please n
respect of above.

I'd be glad to do so, but your URL gives a 404 error today (both on
Safari and on iCab) though it worked yesterday. Have you moved the test
page?

 

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:07:01 GMT
dorayme scribed:

Now that would be nice, sure. But it does not happen in all
browsers under all conditions.

No, but I think it's the browsers' faults and not the markupers'. I don't
know all the particulars, but (for instance) you may find it works in Opera
initially but if you click a callback link, it will then ignore the hash on
return. Like most things related to html, this is buggy.

You are right Boji. But it looks nice on my own machine. In fact
I get to cry at its sheer beauty all the time. I have to take
salt tablets to make up.

I have asked about this before, only now and then I get this
problem and have few clues as to why?

I use BBEdit. What should I do to make it look like it is in my
editor? I have tried various things and I do not know well the
actual levers to pull. I have followed instructions about other
things to good effect on BBEdit but this matter, which you have
identified, rears its ugly head every now and then.

Generally speaking, the format of text in text editors, -specifically the
line formatting-, is done with \r and \n instead of <br>. BBEdit may read
the "html" instead of the "text" in a special manner, therefore not needing
the normal LFCRs. It might have some kind of option regarding this,
although I don't know because I'm not psychic. One would think so, though.
But \r\n for feeding each line is what is missing. (Or...it is using \r
without \n perhaps in typically weird-mac fashion.)

You can send me an email and I will give you the address of the
actual site and you can see some of the stuff if you are
interested. It is not that exciting. But one must earn a
living... It is not anything you would work up a sweat about. I
know you. You have a filthy mind. My work is clean and wholesome.
You would fall asleep. <g>

Thanks, but <yawn /> unless it's a gong-and-donkey show or something like
that, you're probably right. When you've seen it all, you've seen it all.

Hasta

 

[Nikita the Spider]

Now that would be nice, sure. But it does not happen in all
browsers under all conditions.


You are right Boji. But it looks nice on my own machine. In fact
I get to cry at its sheer beauty all the time. I have to take
salt tablets to make up.

I have asked about this before, only now and then I get this
problem and have few clues as to why?

I use BBEdit. What should I do to make it look like it is in my
editor? I have tried various things and I do not know well the
actual levers to pull. I have followed instructions about other
things to good effect on BBEdit but this matter, which you have
identified, rears its ugly head every now and then.

FYI, I pasted your source code into BBEdit and there were no line
endings present that I could see. If you put the file online again I
could inspect it to see if there are line endings that are not
translated or if (as I suspect) there are no line endings in the file.
Something is probably stripping them as they get uploaded.

 

[dorayme]

[ ... ]

OK, now, this out of the way, you likely have a Mac. So how about
confirming or giving me your observations about Safari please n
respect of above.

I'd be glad to do so, but your URL gives a 404 error today (both on
Safari and on iCab) though it worked yesterday. Have you moved the test
page?

After it was pointed out to me in quite unparliamentary language
that the source code formatting was not the best, I took it down,
stormed off and got blind drunk. I am out on bail now and will
see if I can see what the problem is. (It has been confirmed by a
spider and me already that Safari likes ids in tds rather than
trs if you read the thread. But thanks Athel.

Talk to me about formatting instead, I am desperately at sea
about how to set my text editor and/or my Cyberduck ftp program
and/or how much blame to apportion my server host. What are the
general causes of something looking mighty fine on the screen in
a text editor only to see later in the source code of some (I
emphasise some) of my website pages, no gaps between lines that
were there before, various bits bunched together and so on and so
forth. Perhaps my editor is too good and complicated and I am
lost in the variables of the enormous list of preferences.

I will put up a few versions and state on the pages what the
crucial settings are that I would assume at least mildly relevant
and together we will knock this thing over.

 

[dorayme]

... I think it's the browsers' faults and not the markupers'. I

don't ...Like most things related to html, this is buggy.I have come to accept these things. I believe in Fate. But I like
to play God and try to steer it a bit...

Generally speaking, the format of text in text editors, -specifically the
line formatting-, is done with \r and \n instead of <br>. BBEdit may read
the "html" instead of the "text" in a special manner, therefore not needing
the normal LFCRs. It might have some kind of option regarding this,
although I don't know because I'm not psychic. One would think so, though.
But \r\n for feeding each line is what is missing. (Or...it is using \r
without \n perhaps in typically weird-mac fashion.)

The question is how to use this to practical effect. I do fiddle
with my text editor prefs for various purposes and only half know
what I am doing. I got peace of mind when I settled on some prefs
to do with Saving from TI a while back. But I really should now
knock this formatting on the head.

Why am I talking to you instead of reading the manual? Because it
is less boring.

 

[dorayme]

FYI, I pasted your source code into BBEdit and there were no line
endings present that I could see. If you put the file online again I
could inspect it to see if there are line endings that are not
translated or if (as I suspect) there are no line endings in the file.
Something is probably stripping them as they get uploaded.

Thanks. I would have done it already this morning if I had not
opened up my newsreader and messed about. I have been fiddling
with it. I will stick it up again soon.

 

[Ed Mullen]

Talk to me about formatting instead, I am desperately at sea
about how to set my text editor and/or my Cyberduck ftp program
and/or how much blame to apportion my server host. What are the
general causes of something looking mighty fine on the screen in
a text editor only to see later in the source code of some (I
emphasise some) of my website pages, no gaps between lines that
were there before, various bits bunched together and so on and so
forth. Perhaps my editor is too good and complicated and I am
lost in the variables of the enormous list of preferences.

Does your text editor strip out extra lines? Does your FTP client
compress files on upload by stripping double-spacing?

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net
A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good.

 

[dorayme]

FYI, I pasted your source code into BBEdit and there were no line
endings present that I could see. If you put the file online again I
could inspect it to see if there are line endings that are not
translated or if (as I suspect) there are no line endings in the file.
Something is probably stripping them as they get uploaded.

I fiddled about and I _think_ this is better... I changed a
setting in my editor, probably to do with line endings from Mac
to Unix.

The first four rows will be slightly different in source to the
rest because of a bit of hand attention, the rest were set auto
to 72 characters. What a distraction.

http://tinyurl.com/24y5hp

 

[Neredbojias]

Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:18:39
GMT dorayme scribed:

don't ...Like most things related to html, this is buggy.
I have come to accept these things. I believe in Fate. But I like
to play God and try to steer it a bit...

Back when the original "Charlie's Angels" were on TV, I believed in Kate.
Alas, she failed me, too.

The question is how to use this to practical effect. I do fiddle
with my text editor prefs for various purposes and only half know
what I am doing. I got peace of mind when I settled on some prefs
to do with Saving from TI a while back. But I really should now
knock this formatting on the head.

Why am I talking to you instead of reading the manual? Because it
is less boring.

As Nikita (-er, the spider, not Krushchev) said, it could be the server
stripping the LFs, too. If that's the case, it's a simple fix. Just
complain to them, wait 6 or 8 months, and by then you won't care,
anyways.

Like my new x-face?

 

[dorayme]

Does your text editor strip out extra lines? Does your FTP client
compress files on upload by stripping double-spacing?

I think so yes and I want to put a bloody stop to it. I tell you,
Ed, the combination of these two programs is a team made in hell,
a law unto itself. I stay loyal to all the devils I know in case
you ask. If I kicked them out, who would take them in?

I cannot think of any setting I can improve on in BBEdit just
this mo. As for the FTP, it is Cyberduck and there are not that
many settings, must take a closer look.

 

[Ed Mullen]

I think so yes and I want to put a bloody stop to it. I tell you,
Ed, the combination of these two programs is a team made in hell,
a law unto itself. I stay loyal to all the devils I know in case
you ask. If I kicked them out, who would take them in?

I cannot think of any setting I can improve on in BBEdit just
this mo. As for the FTP, it is Cyberduck and there are not that
many settings, must take a closer look.

Look in Cyberduck for something concerning Transfer Mode. If you
transfer HTML (or text) files in binary mode that /may/ be the problem.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net
Just for today, I will not sit in my living room all day in my
underwear. Instead, I will move my computer into the bedroom.