internationalisation

[WindAndWaves]

Hi Folks

I recently got a couple of pages translated in a number of languages (I am
still working on the Russian and the Korean).

The location is www.corstorphinehouse.com ; I was wondering if anyone can
have a look at this to see if the internationalisation is carried out
correctly (e.g. charactersets, language settings). BTW, the Chinese is
traditional Chinese.

Look forward to your comments.


- Nicolaas

PS I know that the page is not valid html, this is to centre it on the page.

 

[Sybren Stuvel]

WindAndWaves enlightened us with:

PS I know that the page is not valid html, this is to centre it on
the page.

That's not an excuse. As if it's impossible to center a page with CSS.
Tsssk...

Sybren

 

[WindAndWaves]

WindAndWaves enlightened us with:

That's not an excuse. As if it's impossible to center a page with CSS.
Tsssk...

Sybren

I looked into this in minute detail. It is impossible in the way I do
it.... However, if you know the answer then let me know and I will implement
it straight away. I am talking about centering the content (of which we do
not know how large it is) both vertically and horizontally. I look forward
to your reply.

Thank you

-Nicolaas

 

[Kris]

The location is www.corstorphinehouse.com ; I was wondering if anyone can
have a look at this to see if the internationalisation is carried out
correctly (e.g. charactersets, language settings). BTW, the Chinese is
traditional Chinese.

The korean version displays english for me but the markup says it is
korean (ko).

 

[WindAndWaves]

[...]

The korean version displays english for me but the markup says it is
korean (ko).

Hoi Kristiaan

Yes, I am aware of this, sorry the Korean will be supplied later today.

Thank you.

 

[Sybren Stuvel]

WindAndWaves enlightened us with:

I looked into this in minute detail. It is impossible in the way I
do it....

Well, that much was clear.

However, if you know the answer then let me know and I will
implement it straight away. I am talking about centering the
content (of which we do not know how large it is) both vertically
and horizontally.

I do know of a way to center it horizontally. You can probably use the
same technique for vertically, but I'm not sure.

Check out http://student.science.uva.nl/~sstuvel/centered.html

Sybren

 

[WindAndWaves]

[...]

I do know of a way to center it horizontally. You can probably use the
same technique for vertically, but I'm not sure.

[...]

Ja lieve Sybren....

And that is where the problem lies. Almost all of us know how to center a
page horizontally (e.g. <DIV ALIGN=CENTER>), but vertically is a little
trickier. I have actually seen it done with stylesheets, but you end up
making it so complicated that it does not warrant all the extra hassle while
a simple table with HEIGHT="100%" WIDTH="100%" does the trick, nevermind the
tick from W3.

 

[rf]

www.corstorphinehouse.com

BTW, the Chinese is
traditional Chinese.

Just how do I get to the chinese version? You give me no textual clues at
all, just a row of flags which are too small to actually see, for instance
is the first one Australia or New Zealand?

And what about an American person. Do you think they would click on a New
Zealand flag to view their version of English?

Question: Does Thailand use the same flag as Hong Kong? The also use
traditional chinese. Mainland China, by the way, uses simplified chinese.

Navigation by flags is a very poor thing to do.

Also, your title attribute is missing for those pictures on the front page.
The later pages have them.

 

[WindAndWaves]

Just how do I get to the chinese version? You give me no textual clues at
all, just a row of flags which are too small to actually see, for instance
is the first one Australia or New Zealand?

And what about an American person. Do you think they would click on a New
Zealand flag to view their version of English?

Question: Does Thailand use the same flag as Hong Kong? The also use
traditional chinese. Mainland China, by the way, uses simplified chinese.

Navigation by flags is a very poor thing to do.

Also, your title attribute is missing for those pictures on the front page.
The later pages have them.

Hi Richard

Thank you for your comments, the flags seemed a good idea at the time,
because they are universally understood and they fit with a hotel (i.e.
hotels often have flags from different countries outside to welcome their
guests).

 

[rf]

Hi Richard

Thank you for your comments, the flags seemed a good idea at the time,
because they are universally understood and they fit with a hotel (i.e.
hotels often have flags from different countries outside to welcome their
guests).

Check the google archive for discussions on flags and navigation. Invariably
using flags alone is frowned upon.

 

[Mark Parnell]

Thank you for your comments, the flags seemed a good idea at the time,
because they are universally understood and they fit with a hotel (i.e.

As Richard's post demonstrated, they are easily misunderstood, or just
plain confusing.

hotels often have flags from different countries outside to welcome their
guests).

But not to indicate which language their guests can speak! If you want
an image of various flags to link to the hotel thing, then go ahead, but
don't try and use it to link to different translations of the site.

 

[WindAndWaves]

As Richard's post demonstrated, they are easily misunderstood, or just
plain confusing.


But not to indicate which language their guests can speak! If you want
an image of various flags to link to the hotel thing, then go ahead, but
don't try and use it to link to different translations of the site.

All of that flag business is interesting, but that is not actually what I am
interested in. I thought about it again and even though you are correct in
saying that flags are not correct (and I will probably change them to text
at some stage) and what have you, I think they are fun (does that count) and
friendly. I mean, we are not talking about a government page on euthanasia
here. Furthermore, it is not a complete translation of the site, just the
front page in a couple of languages. What I am interested though, however,
if the pages are setup correctly for the different languages.

TIA

- Nicolaas

 

[Philip Ronan]

All of that flag business is interesting, but that is not actually what I am
interested in. I thought about it again and even though you are correct in
saying that flags are not correct (and I will probably change them to text
at some stage) and what have you, I think they are fun (does that count) and
friendly. I mean, we are not talking about a government page on euthanasia
here. Furthermore, it is not a complete translation of the site, just the
front page in a couple of languages. What I am interested though, however,
if the pages are setup correctly for the different languages.

TIA

- Nicolaas

I agree with everyone else that flags are not a good way of indicating
languages.

The Japanese page looks ok, but you forgot to translate the status bar test
that appears when the mouse is over the images at the bottom. (Actually this
is another bad idea -- "title" attributes do a much better job and don't
rely on Javascript)

You said earlier that the flags seemed like a good idea at the time. Since
you're using an Apache server, it would be a *much* better idea to use
content negotiation. That way you can provide your visitors with their
preferred language automatically without resorting to any of this
flag-vs.-language malarkey.

More info here: <http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html>

Phil

 

[Peter]

WindAndWaves schreef:

Hi Folks

I recently got a couple of pages translated in a number of languages (I am
still working on the Russian and the Korean).

The location is www.corstorphinehouse.com ; I was wondering if anyone can
have a look at this to see if the internationalisation is carried out
correctly (e.g. charactersets, language settings). BTW, the Chinese is
traditional Chinese.

Look forward to your comments.


- Nicolaas

PS I know that the page is not valid html, this is to centre it on the page.

This dutch translation tells people nothing: Het landgoed
<http://www.corstorphinehouse.com/garden0.html> is in de overgangsfase
naar de Demeter status in biologische landbouw.
Peter

 

[WindAndWaves]

WindAndWaves schreef:

This dutch translation tells people nothing: Het landgoed
<http://www.corstorphinehouse.com/garden0.html> is in de overgangsfase
naar de Demeter status in biologische landbouw.
Peter

What do you mean peter? I know the text in very short, it is just a start.
100 words max.

 

[WindAndWaves]

I agree with everyone else that flags are not a good way of indicating
languages.

The Japanese page looks ok, but you forgot to translate the status bar test
that appears when the mouse is over the images at the bottom. (Actually this
is another bad idea -- "title" attributes do a much better job and don't
rely on Javascript)

You said earlier that the flags seemed like a good idea at the time. Since
you're using an Apache server, it would be a *much* better idea to use
content negotiation. That way you can provide your visitors with their
preferred language automatically without resorting to any of this
flag-vs.-language malarkey.

More info here: <http://httpd.apache.org/docs/content-negotiation.html>

Phil

Hi Phil

Thank for your comment. Does this mean that if I have my browser set to
Italian that I then automatically get the Italian?

That would be a good idea, but I am sure that most of the folk who visit the
website have such strange setups that it may not work
(e.g. the Dutch travel agent may prefer English - A chinese Kiwi may like to
have a look at the Chinese). Just to reiterate, it is not about translating
the whole site for people who do not speak English, it is about impressing
and welcoming guests in their own language. Hmmmm, maybe it is a good idea,
it is difficult to setup?

Thank you

Nicolaas

 

[jake]

Hi Richard

Thank you for your comments, the flags seemed a good idea at the time,
because they are universally understood and they fit with a hotel (i.e.
hotels often have flags from different countries outside to welcome their
guests).

Actually, I think the use of the flags ought to work quite well --
although you might want to add a title="xxx" to each of the image tags
as well as a alt=xxx" in order to let browsers other than IE show a
tool-tip in the appropriate language. Looks attractive, too ;-)

regards.

 

[WindAndWaves]

Actually, I think the use of the flags ought to work quite well --
although you might want to add a title="xxx" to each of the image tags
as well as a alt=xxx" in order to let browsers other than IE show a
tool-tip in the appropriate language. Looks attractive, too ;-)

regards.

Thank you Jake - unfortunately, we got a bit of topic, as I was actually
interested in internationalisation (charactersets, encoding, language specs,
etc...) nevermind, you are absolutely right about the alt and titles.

 

[Pascal Bouchard]

Look forward to your comments.

The French translation is not right!

 

[neredbojias]

Without quill or qualm, Pascal Bouchard quothed:

The French translation is not right!

Vous etes un largesse fussbudgeter.