ironpython (.net python) and dynamic langs on CLR

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Daniel Cremer, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. This might interest some of you :)
    A (fast) python implementation targeting .net and Mono has been released
    as open source today. Apparently this was announced at OSCON today. If
    anyone attended the talk I would be interested in hearing about it. I've
    been waiting for this for a while, not because I program in python but
    because it's supposed to have some good solutions for implementing
    dynamic languages on the CLR.
    Interestingly the author, Jim Hugunin, is going to join the CLR team at
    Microsoft and he (quote from website:) "will also reach out to other
    languages to help overcome any hurdles that are preventing them from
    targeting the CLR effectively."
    I haven't had the chance to play with this yet but it looks pretty cool.
    http://www.ironpython.com

    -Daniel
    Daniel Cremer, Jul 29, 2004
    #1
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  2. In article <>, Daniel Cremer wrote:
    >This might interest some of you :)
    >A (fast) python implementation targeting .net and Mono has been released
    >as open source today. Apparently this was announced at OSCON today. If
    >anyone attended the talk I would be interested in hearing about it. I've
    >been waiting for this for a while, not because I program in python but
    >because it's supposed to have some good solutions for implementing
    >dynamic languages on the CLR.
    >Interestingly the author, Jim Hugunin, is going to join the CLR team at
    >Microsoft and he (quote from website:) "will also reach out to other
    >languages to help overcome any hurdles that are preventing them from
    >targeting the CLR effectively."
    >I haven't had the chance to play with this yet but it looks pretty cool.
    >http://www.ironpython.com


    Yes, this is very interesting.

    I've just started a 12-week undergraduate project on the topic of integrating
    Ruby and .NET.

    The following three projects bridge Ruby and .NET by using "proxy objects"
    (both the Ruby and .NET runtimes are used in the same application, and they
    are integrated "on the borders").

    http://rubydotnetproxy.rubyforge.org/
    http://www.saltypickle.com/rubydotnet/
    http://rubydotnet.sf.net/

    (I wrote rubydotnetproxy before starting my undergrad project.)

    Jan-AAke Hedstro:m (a student of Robert Feldt's) has developed RubySharp,
    while compiles a subset of Ruby into CIL. (CIL = .NET's "Common Intermediate
    Language".) See http://www.pronovomundo.com/htu/theses2004/

    There is a mailing list for discussing Ruby/.NET integration:
    http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=34312

    In my project, I am intending to do the following:

    - Aim is to allow people to use .NET and Ruby code in the same application,
    use .NET libraries in Ruby and vice versa.

    My aim is not to make Ruby work faster than it does currently.

    - Prototype, test, compare ideas and approaches. The main output will be a
    paper rather than code.

    - I suspect that my approach will use the existing Ruby interpreter and
    bridge with the .NET system (as in the first three projects I listed) -
    but doing some runtime compilation for performance.

    (All existing Ruby programs will work since we can fall back on the Ruby
    interpreter.)

    Thomas Sondergaard (author of http://rubydotnet.sf.net/) points out two
    drawbacks to this method:

    (http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=8843283)

    " - bridging anything to the current ruby runtime will remain mostly a
    hack, because I don't think you will be able to satisfactorily solve at
    least the following fundamental problems

    1) The dual-gc problem,
    2) The ruby pseudo-threading versus .net native threading problem
    "
    Hopefully I can mitigate these. #2 looks to be the harder.

    - Since people have already done work in this area, a (big?) part of my
    project will be to compare approaches. e.g. compare performance. The
    three "bridging" projects were (I believe) all concerned about first
    getting something that worked. Not much attention has been paid to
    performance.


    Any suggestions people have would be very welcome.

    [If you think I'm going down the wrong path then now is a good time to tell
    me, before I do any work :) ]

    --
    Tim Sutherland <>
    2004 SDKACM President
    Software Developers' Klub - the University of Auckland ACM Student Chapter
    http://www.sdkacm.com/
    Tim Sutherland, Jul 29, 2004
    #2
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  3. Hi !

    (just for info)

    Jim Hugunin is too the developer of Jython (Python on Java instead of C).
    Michel Claveau - abstraction méta-galactique non t, Aug 7, 2004
    #3
  4. Daniel Cremer

    Chad Fowler Guest

    On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:38:01 +0900, Daniel Cremer
    <> wrote:
    > This might interest some of you :)
    > A (fast) python implementation targeting .net and Mono has been released
    > as open source today. Apparently this was announced at OSCON today. If
    > anyone attended the talk I would be interested in hearing about it. I've
    > been waiting for this for a while, not because I program in python but
    > because it's supposed to have some good solutions for implementing
    > dynamic languages on the CLR.
    > Interestingly the author, Jim Hugunin, is going to join the CLR team at
    > Microsoft and he (quote from website:) "will also reach out to other
    > languages to help overcome any hurdles that are preventing them from
    > targeting the CLR effectively."
    > I haven't had the chance to play with this yet but it looks pretty cool.
    > http://www.ironpython.com
    >


    I was in the talk at OSCON. It was very interesting. The talk mostly
    focused on the basics of his design (nothing at all revolutionary
    there) and then went through a bunch of benchmarks, comparing Iron
    Python to CPython. Ultimately Iron Python was 4% slower (pretty
    impressive!).

    Jim's role in the CLR team specifically includes helping *dynamic*
    languages get ported to the CLR. Rich and I chatted with him
    afterward, and I believe Rich sent him Robert Feldt's information
    because of the RubySharp stuff Robert had been doing.

    Chad
    Chad Fowler, Aug 7, 2004
    #4
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