is asp.net suks or i just missing some secrets ?

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by SharpSmith@gmail.com, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. Guest

    hi all
    the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
    appreciate any opinion
    i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
    meet performance issues
    maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
    things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
    performance bad
    also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
    site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
    one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
    database performance
    we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
    every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
    simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
    them everywhere

    also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
    on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
    it just lot faster

    i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
    fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome

    if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
    that

    Thanks much
    EV
    , Sep 14, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Overuse of viewstate will always cause performance issues so its not
    suprising that not using it gives an increase in performance. A good place
    to start on working out how to improve things would be to first read up on
    how to scale IIS, as it will highlight many of the pitfalls that any
    developer or architect, even very experienced ones can fall into.

    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pr...2a0-80d2-48da-9699-9b06bf79440d.mspx?mfr=true

    You'll struggle to find a framework for web development that competes with
    ..net 2.0. I suggest you stick with it for a while until you learn a bit
    more about where problems are occuring and see if you can correct them
    rather than abandoning the technology entirely.
    --
    Regards

    John Timney (MVP)
    VISIT MY WEBSITE:
    http://www.johntimney.com

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > hi all
    > the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
    > appreciate any opinion
    > i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
    > meet performance issues
    > maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
    > things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
    > performance bad
    > also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
    > site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
    > one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
    > database performance
    > we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
    > every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
    > simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
    > them everywhere
    >
    > also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
    > on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
    > it just lot faster
    >
    > i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
    > fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome
    >
    > if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
    > that
    >
    > Thanks much
    > EV
    >
    John Timney \(MVP\), Sep 14, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. There is no simple answer for your concern.

    However, you can download and study this guide :
    "Improving .NET Application Performance and Scalability"
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnpag/html/scalenet.asp

    All the answers you are seeking are in that very complete guide.
    Take the time you need to understand the principles explained in it well.



    Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
    aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/
    asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
    foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
    ===================================

    "" wrote:

    > hi all
    > the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
    > appreciate any opinion
    > i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
    > meet performance issues
    > maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
    > things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
    > performance bad
    > also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
    > site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
    > one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
    > database performance
    > we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
    > every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
    > simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
    > them everywhere
    >
    > also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
    > on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
    > it just lot faster
    >
    > i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
    > fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome
    >
    > if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
    > that
    >
    > Thanks much
    > EV
    >
    >
    =?Utf-8?B?SnVhblRMbGlicmU=?=, Sep 14, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    Re: is asp.net sucks or i just missing some secrets ?

    Thanks John
    the title of my topic is little bit provocative and it mean to be cause
    i hoped to start some discussion here
    i for sure agree with you that asp.net and asp.net2 is very powerful ,
    but as with any strong technology is easy to get messy
    i would welcome any good web resources/ books about strategies of
    building scalable and fast applications with asp.net

    Thanks
    EV


    John Timney (MVP) wrote:
    > Overuse of viewstate will always cause performance issues so its not
    > suprising that not using it gives an increase in performance. A good place
    > to start on working out how to improve things would be to first read up on
    > how to scale IIS, as it will highlight many of the pitfalls that any
    > developer or architect, even very experienced ones can fall into.
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pr...2a0-80d2-48da-9699-9b06bf79440d.mspx?mfr=true
    >
    > You'll struggle to find a framework for web development that competes with
    > .net 2.0. I suggest you stick with it for a while until you learn a bit
    > more about where problems are occuring and see if you can correct them
    > rather than abandoning the technology entirely.
    > --
    > Regards
    >
    > John Timney (MVP)
    > VISIT MY WEBSITE:
    > http://www.johntimney.com
    >
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > hi all
    > > the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
    > > appreciate any opinion
    > > i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
    > > meet performance issues
    > > maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
    > > things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
    > > performance bad
    > > also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
    > > site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
    > > one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
    > > database performance
    > > we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
    > > every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
    > > simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
    > > them everywhere
    > >
    > > also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
    > > on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
    > > it just lot faster
    > >
    > > i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
    > > fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome
    > >
    > > if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
    > > that
    > >
    > > Thanks much
    > > EV
    > >
    , Sep 15, 2006
    #4
  5. Guest

    Re: is asp.net sucks or i just missing some secrets ?

    Thanks Juan
    grate book, i not finished yet all of 1150 pages :) but after overview
    i can see that it for sure will answer some of my questions

    if you have more good resources dedicated to ASP.Net strategies of
    building applications with orientation on scalability and performance i
    will thankfully welcome them

    may tip lists exists like
    * disable viewstate where you don't needed
    * prevent round trips to database etc.

    but what difficult to find for me is some good architecture and
    strategy oriented articles

    Thanks much,
    Yevgeniy

    JuanTLlibre wrote:
    > There is no simple answer for your concern.
    >
    > However, you can download and study this guide :
    > "Improving .NET Application Performance and Scalability"
    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnpag/html/scalenet.asp
    >
    > All the answers you are seeking are in that very complete guide.
    > Take the time you need to understand the principles explained in it well.
    >
    >
    >
    > Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
    > aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/
    > asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
    > foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
    > ===================================
    >
    > "" wrote:
    >
    > > hi all
    > > the question is more related to architecture and practices and I'll
    > > appreciate any opinion
    > > i work with asp net 1/2 few years and with any project we developing we
    > > meet performance issues
    > > maybe the problems is our methods or maybe we do not do the right
    > > things but it seems that view state and heavy page model really make
    > > performance bad
    > > also, when you work with asp.net it very easy to start building your
    > > site component-oriented with many levels of nested controls that every
    > > one is data-driven and make a db call that altogether cause bad
    > > database performance
    > > we recently did code review for other companies products and i see that
    > > every-one do that mistake with component-oriented design cause it so
    > > simple and fun to make smart controls with public properties and reuse
    > > them everywhere
    > >
    > > also, i did a production application with MonoRail (MVS framework based
    > > on asp.net but using different light page-model and no viewstate) and
    > > it just lot faster
    > >
    > > i will welcome any examples of how you guys build ASP.Net site that
    > > fast and easy to scale, also, any links to good resources are welcome
    > >
    > > if you suggest to switch to PHP or Ruby on Rails i promise to consider
    > > that
    > >
    > > Thanks much
    > > EV
    > >
    > >
    , Sep 15, 2006
    #5
  6. Damien Guest

    Re: is asp.net sucks or i just missing some secrets ?

    wrote:
    > Thanks Juan
    > grate book, i not finished yet all of 1150 pages :) but after overview
    > i can see that it for sure will answer some of my questions
    >
    > if you have more good resources dedicated to ASP.Net strategies of
    > building applications with orientation on scalability and performance i
    > will thankfully welcome them
    >
    > may tip lists exists like
    > * disable viewstate where you don't needed
    > * prevent round trips to database etc.
    >
    > but what difficult to find for me is some good architecture and
    > strategy oriented articles
    >
    > Thanks much,
    > Yevgeniy
    >

    I don't know about others, but I've found having a profiler invaluable.
    We're a 1.1 shop here, so we're using ANTS, but I believe VS2005 has a
    built in profiler.

    Being able to find hot spots and be able to measure whether the code
    changes are improving or having a detrimental effect is a godsend, if
    you're writing complex code. And being able to see just what clutter
    you've built up (using a memory profiling run) can make you feel sorry
    for the GC.

    As others have said, yes, viewstate can have a considerable overhead.
    But we've managed to get "acceptable" performance on some pages even
    though (to my mind) they're quite complex beasts. For example, most of
    our pages consist of datagrids. When the page loads, it queries the
    database to determine what controls to render in which position (using
    databinding). We've got some pages which load a grid consisting of
    about 30 rows, about 5 controls per row (mix of dropdown lists, radio
    buttons, text boxes, etc). We also bind validation code, make decisions
    on which rows to display (or make read only), and we have viewstate
    turned on. It's not the fastest page in the world, but as I said, the
    performance is deemed "acceptable" by the powers that be.

    Course, when we get an opportunity, we're going to switch to repeaters,
    since we're not actually using any of the datagrids functionality.

    Damien
    Damien, Sep 15, 2006
    #6
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