Is Eric S Raymond still a "Pythoneer"

Discussion in 'Python' started by Paddy McCarthy, Mar 2, 2004.

  1. I just re-read "Why Python?" at
    http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3882
    The article is from 2000 and shows how a programmer who programmed in
    many programming languages, and who wrote compilers and interpreters,
    was introduced to Python and came to like it.

    I wondered if there are any more recent interviews/articles from ESR
    on his scripting language tools. I would be interested to know if he
    still usesPython? Did he try any other "scripting" languages such as
    Ruby or Lua?

    I'm going to add the article to my bookmarks for ammo in trying to
    change my strictly Perl workplace to at least consider Python.

    (I should add that I do know of most of the good advocacy resources
    available, I've collected them from answers to other peoples posts,
    thanks).

    Thanks again, Paddy.
     
    Paddy McCarthy, Mar 2, 2004
    #1
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  2. Paddy McCarthy

    Ville Vainio Guest

    >>>>> "Paddy" == Paddy McCarthy <> writes:

    Paddy> from ESR on his scripting language tools. I would be
    Paddy> interested to know if he still usesPython? Did he try any
    Paddy> other "scripting" languages such as Ruby or Lua?

    Yes - for example he wrote a prototype of his SCO source code
    comparison tool in Python. I think he still mostly uses Python for the
    stuff he writes himself.

    --
    Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb
     
    Ville Vainio, Mar 2, 2004
    #2
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  3. In article <>,
    Ville Vainio <> wrote:
    >>>>>> "Paddy" == Paddy McCarthy <> writes:

    >
    > Paddy> from ESR on his scripting language tools. I would be
    > Paddy> interested to know if he still usesPython? Did he try any
    > Paddy> other "scripting" languages such as Ruby or Lua?
    >
    >Yes - for example he wrote a prototype of his SCO source code
    >comparison tool in Python. I think he still mostly uses Python for the
    >stuff he writes himself.

    .
    .
    .
    You can write Eric yourself. Did he try other languages?
    Check out <URL: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/ >.
    Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua? Look at
    <URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.
    --

    Cameron Laird <>
    Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
     
    Cameron Laird, Mar 2, 2004
    #3
  4. Re: Lua Book

    Cameron Laird wrote:
    > Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua? Look at
    > <URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.


    I have no experience with Lua, but some of the code examples from the book
    may frighten me away for good.

    http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/code/allwords.lua.html



    I suppose Python's recent introduction of generators makes this rather trivial.

    def allwords():
    for line in sys.stdin:
    for word in line.split():
    yield word

    for word in allwords():
    print word
     
    Pete Shinners, Mar 2, 2004
    #4
  5. Re: Lua Book

    In article <>,
    Pete Shinners <> wrote:
    >Cameron Laird wrote:
    >> Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua? Look at
    >> <URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.

    >
    >I have no experience with Lua, but some of the code examples from the book
    >may frighten me away for good.
    >
    >http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/code/allwords.lua.html
    >
    >
    >
    >I suppose Python's recent introduction of generators makes this rather trivial.
    >
    >def allwords():
    > for line in sys.stdin:
    > for word in line.split():
    > yield word
    >
    >for word in allwords():
    > print word
    >
    >
    >


    Provocative comparison; perhaps Roberto will even join in
    and comment here. In any case, there's still a place for
    Lua, and I think there's value in the discussion of Lua
    that comp.lang.python has already hosted.
    --

    Cameron Laird <>
    Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
     
    Cameron Laird, Mar 2, 2004
    #5
  6. (Paddy McCarthy) wrote in message news:<>...
    > I just re-read "Why Python?" at
    > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3882
    > The article is from 2000 and shows how a programmer who programmed in
    > many programming languages, and who wrote compilers and interpreters,
    > was introduced to Python and came to like it.
    >
    > I wondered if there are any more recent interviews/articles from ESR
    > on his scripting language tools. I would be interested to know if he
    > still usesPython? Did he try any other "scripting" languages such as
    > Ruby or Lua?
    >
    > I'm going to add the article to my bookmarks for ammo in trying to
    > change my strictly Perl workplace to at least consider Python.
    >
    > (I should add that I do know of most of the good advocacy resources
    > available, I've collected them from answers to other peoples posts,
    > thanks).
    >
    > Thanks again, Paddy.


    Oh, no! I sent the above, then found the right thing to search for in
    Google and came up with this interview from January:
    http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3306511

    It seems ESR is still a Pythoneer, and I have another important
    article to add to my trove.

    Thanks for the other replies, Ill follow them up to.
     
    Paddy McCarthy, Mar 2, 2004
    #6
  7. Paddy McCarthy

    rzed Guest

    Re: Lua Book

    Pete Shinners <> wrote in
    news::

    > Cameron Laird wrote:
    >> Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua? Look at
    >> <URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.

    >
    > I have no experience with Lua, but some of the code examples
    > from the book may frighten me away for good.
    >
    > http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/code/allwords.lua.html
    >
    >
    >
    > I suppose Python's recent introduction of generators makes this
    > rather trivial.
    >
    > def allwords():
    > for line in sys.stdin:
    > for word in line.split():
    > yield word
    >
    > for word in allwords():
    > print word
    >
    >
    >


    NameError: global name 'sys' is not defined

    The Python version includes trailing punctuation, while the Lua
    version filters it out. It becomes a little less trivial to make
    the two functionally identical.

    It seems that the syntax of Lua can be a little more verbose. On
    the other hand, here are two versions of (more or less) the
    functional equivalent of the referenced Lua code:

    # in Python:

    import sys, string
    tt = string.maketrans( '`~!@#$%^&*()_-+=:;"\'{[}]|\\?/>.<,',
    ' ' )
    for line in sys.stdin:
    line = string.translate( line, tt )
    for word in line.split():
    print word

    -- in Lua:

    line = io.read()
    while line do
    for word in string.gfind(line, "%w+") do
    print(word)
    end
    line = io.read()
    end

    There are probably better ways to write the code in either
    language. I've only been looking at Lua for a couple of hours, so I
    can't really comment much about that. But overall, for a comparable
    task, it doesn't look too scary.

    --
    rzed
     
    rzed, Mar 2, 2004
    #7
  8. Paddy McCarthy

    ciw42 Guest

    Re: Lua Book

    (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<>...
    > In article <>,
    > Pete Shinners <> wrote:
    > >Cameron Laird wrote:
    > >> Incidentally, have you heard the news about Lua? Look at
    > >> <URL: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/ >.

    > >
    > >I have no experience with Lua, but some of the code examples from the book
    > >may frighten me away for good.
    > >
    > >http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/book/code/allwords.lua.html
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >I suppose Python's recent introduction of generators makes this rather trivial.
    > >
    > >def allwords():
    > > for line in sys.stdin:
    > > for word in line.split():
    > > yield word
    > >
    > >for word in allwords():
    > > print word
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Provocative comparison; perhaps Roberto will even join in
    > and comment here. In any case, there's still a place for
    > Lua, and I think there's value in the discussion of Lua
    > that comp.lang.python has already hosted.


    Ordered a copy of the Lua book as the language seemed quite
    interesting and potentially useful. The full text was available on the
    'net, but I like to read this sort of material whilst travelling.

    Although it starts out describing quite a nicely structured language
    (occasionally similar in concept to, but never as readable as Python)
    as the book proceeds, the more in-depth examples become harder to read
    (a lot more like Perl) and having finished the book I was left feeling
    that the core language offered nothing useful over Python, in fact it
    was rather lacking in many areas.

    Don't get me wrong, I know if I had a good enough reason I could quite
    quicky and reasonably happily start developing in Lua, but it's
    unlikely to ever come close to Python for general purpose coding. That
    said, it may well fit the bill for a new embedded low-spec PC-based
    device we'll be starting development on in a few months time. The
    Python runtime is just too big and this is one area where Lua wins
    out, so we'll just have to wait and see.
     
    ciw42, Mar 3, 2004
    #8
  9. Re: Lua Book

    (ciw42) wrote in message news:<>...
    ....
    > Don't get me wrong, I know if I had a good enough reason I could quite
    > quicky and reasonably happily start developing in Lua, but it's
    > unlikely to ever come close to Python for general purpose coding.


    Did you skip the foreword? They wrote just that. Lua is meant as an extension
    language, not as an replacement for standalone scripting languages. It can
    be used standalone, of course, which makes sense if you need speed or size of
    the interpreter matters.

    I just read the book during a long train-ride and liked it a lot. Terse and
    to the point, and I could even learn something new from it. E.g. I hadn't heard
    of coroutines before. I also liked the meta-classes stuff.

    -klaus
     
    Klaus Momberger, Mar 3, 2004
    #9
  10. Paddy McCarthy

    Peter Hansen Guest

    Ville Vainio wrote:
    >>>>>>"Paddy" == Paddy McCarthy <> writes:

    >
    >
    > Paddy> from ESR on his scripting language tools. I would be
    > Paddy> interested to know if he still usesPython? Did he try any
    > Paddy> other "scripting" languages such as Ruby or Lua?
    >
    > Yes - for example he wrote a prototype of his SCO source code
    > comparison tool in Python. I think he still mostly uses Python for the
    > stuff he writes himself.


    Another small data point: some work on the open source Python DNS server
    "oak" was done recently by ESR, as noted in the change logs or the credits.

    -Peter
     
    Peter Hansen, Mar 4, 2004
    #10
  11. Paddy McCarthy

    John J. Lee Guest

    (Paddy McCarthy) writes:

    > (Paddy McCarthy) wrote in message news:<>...

    [...]
    > > I wondered if there are any more recent interviews/articles from ESR
    > > on his scripting language tools. I would be interested to know if he
    > > still usesPython? Did he try any other "scripting" languages such as
    > > Ruby or Lua?

    [...]
    > Oh, no! I sent the above, then found the right thing to search for in
    > Google and came up with this interview from January:
    > http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3306511
    >
    > It seems ESR is still a Pythoneer, and I have another important
    > article to add to my trove.

    [...]

    If you come to the Python UK conference (part of the ACCU Spring
    conference), you may even meet him in person. He's a keynote speaker
    in the Open Source event that's also taking place at the ACCU
    conference, but I imagine he'll be mingling with Pythonistas too.

    https://www.accu.org/conference/

    (the site is due for a significant revamp next week, so check back for
    more details on the Python conference and Open Source forum)


    John
     
    John J. Lee, Mar 6, 2004
    #11
  12. Paddy McCarthy

    Michael Guest

    Just don't do anything you need to think about with him around. He's a
    nice guy but he likes to stand behind you and ask about what you are
    doing. Really drove me bananas when setting stuff up for our Linux expo
    he was a speaker for. ( General rule: ask questions after the busy geeks
    are setup - not during. )

    >If you come to the Python UK conference (part of the ACCU Spring
    >conference), you may even meet him in person. He's a keynote speaker
    >in the Open Source event that's also taking place at the ACCU
    >conference, but I imagine he'll be mingling with Pythonistas too.
    >
    >https://www.accu.org/conference/
    >
    >(the site is due for a significant revamp next week, so check back for
    >more details on the Python conference and Open Source forum)
    >
    >
     
    Michael, Mar 7, 2004
    #12
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