Is Java good for writing simple, yet sleek GUI apps?

Discussion in 'Java' started by Love Rhino, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. Love Rhino

    Love Rhino Guest

    Hello there.

    I have 10+ years doing C/C++/Unix development writing
    databases, compilers, and network software. I have
    a few years of Java experience.

    I need to write a GUI application for the fairly recent
    versions of Windows (NT, XP, 2000...). Since I'm all about
    interoperability, I'm thinking about using Java to do it.
    I don't have *any* GUI experience, nor Windows experience.

    My worry is that Java Swing isn't ideal for me. Many
    developers I've talked to, and website reviews I've read,
    say it's slow and overly complex for very simple things.

    I'm wondering if that's just old news, and the latest
    version of Swing addresses those problems? If not, can
    you recommend other alternatives to Swing, that are
    reasonably fast and portable?

    My project is straight forward. Provide some buttons
    for users to query a database, and display the data.
    Some of the queries may require the user for specific
    dates, amounts, etc. Provide some forms for users to
    add data to a database. Later versions, I would like
    the data to be displayed on a spreadsheet like table
    and to be able to left/right click the cell for futher
    drill downs, but that's later versions. My boss wants
    a proof of concept, right now that doesn't look
    ugly.

    I'm thinking about going the VB route, but my Unix
    intuition says to stay away. The better solution is to
    give the project to a GUI guy. :)

    Anyways, any suggestions would be great. Thanks for
    your time!
    Love Rhino, Sep 7, 2004
    #1
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  2. Love Rhino

    steve Guest

    On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 04:31:38 +0800, Love Rhino wrote
    (in article <>):

    > Hello there.
    >
    > I have 10+ years doing C/C++/Unix development writing
    > databases, compilers, and network software. I have
    > a few years of Java experience.
    >
    > I need to write a GUI application for the fairly recent
    > versions of Windows (NT, XP, 2000...). Since I'm all about
    > interoperability, I'm thinking about using Java to do it.
    > I don't have *any* GUI experience, nor Windows experience.
    >
    > My worry is that Java Swing isn't ideal for me. Many
    > developers I've talked to, and website reviews I've read,
    > say it's slow and overly complex for very simple things.
    >
    > I'm wondering if that's just old news, and the latest
    > version of Swing addresses those problems? If not, can
    > you recommend other alternatives to Swing, that are
    > reasonably fast and portable?
    >
    > My project is straight forward. Provide some buttons
    > for users to query a database, and display the data.
    > Some of the queries may require the user for specific
    > dates, amounts, etc. Provide some forms for users to
    > add data to a database. Later versions, I would like
    > the data to be displayed on a spreadsheet like table
    > and to be able to left/right click the cell for futher
    > drill downs, but that's later versions. My boss wants
    > a proof of concept, right now that doesn't look
    > ugly.
    >
    > I'm thinking about going the VB route, but my Unix
    > intuition says to stay away. The better solution is to
    > give the project to a GUI guy. :)
    >
    > Anyways, any suggestions would be great. Thanks for
    > your time!


    I would say you are talking to idiots, who are so far out of date on their
    technical skill , it is sad.

    the trick with java is all in the threads, most bad developers try to do
    everything in 1 thread, ( usually the graphics thread), so they end up with
    shitty ,slow programs. which they then blame on the java.
    The idea is to launch multiple threads , so that operations do not block each
    other & bog your application down.



    check out the following: (iReport-Designer)
    http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=64348


    this will give you an idea as to speed, cross platform issues etc, of using
    java. (I.E with a good programmer there are virtually none)

    it will also allow you to "Build" graphical reports tied to most major
    databases.
    it had a drag & drop interface, for fields/text etc.
    ( you can compile 90% of the report, then the other 10% can be queried from
    the user), or you can write a java plugin, that can query the user during the
    running of the report.


    this ties into Jasperreports (java)
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/jasperreports

    which can produce and output reports in a number of different formats.

    PDF/HTML/EXCEL/XML/ Whatever



    or go to
    www.oracle.com
    find "JDeveloper", this is a complete IDE written in java.

    I would guess , completing your task could be done in a morning , in
    JDeveloper.

    if you are using ORACLE database, I can get you started, with any help you
    need, on any of the above. if you are using another database i cannot help
    too much.



    steve
    steve, Sep 7, 2004
    #2
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  3. Love Rhino

    kjc Guest

    I can't speak for everyone, but, I don't find Swing complex at all.
    If you've been using C++ as long as you say. It should be a cake walk
    for you. Swing is VERY OO centric. It is VERY flexible for building
    complex GUI's. However issues can and WILL arise when/if doing I/O of
    one form or another. You will have to make use of the java
    multithreading capabilities in order to keep your users happy whilst the
    I/O takes place. One of the down sides IMHO is the performance. Since
    Swing does not use the components found in the native windowing system,
    there will always be a performance hit. For simple apps. No problem,
    a few nested panels, some buttons, some event listeners. Piece of cake.

    Love Rhino wrote:
    > Hello there.
    >
    > I have 10+ years doing C/C++/Unix development writing
    > databases, compilers, and network software. I have
    > a few years of Java experience.
    >
    > I need to write a GUI application for the fairly recent
    > versions of Windows (NT, XP, 2000...). Since I'm all about
    > interoperability, I'm thinking about using Java to do it.
    > I don't have *any* GUI experience, nor Windows experience.
    >
    > My worry is that Java Swing isn't ideal for me. Many
    > developers I've talked to, and website reviews I've read,
    > say it's slow and overly complex for very simple things.
    >
    > I'm wondering if that's just old news, and the latest
    > version of Swing addresses those problems? If not, can
    > you recommend other alternatives to Swing, that are
    > reasonably fast and portable?
    >
    > My project is straight forward. Provide some buttons
    > for users to query a database, and display the data.
    > Some of the queries may require the user for specific
    > dates, amounts, etc. Provide some forms for users to
    > add data to a database. Later versions, I would like
    > the data to be displayed on a spreadsheet like table
    > and to be able to left/right click the cell for futher
    > drill downs, but that's later versions. My boss wants
    > a proof of concept, right now that doesn't look
    > ugly.
    >
    > I'm thinking about going the VB route, but my Unix
    > intuition says to stay away. The better solution is to
    > give the project to a GUI guy. :)
    >
    > Anyways, any suggestions would be great. Thanks for
    > your time!
    kjc, Sep 8, 2004
    #3
  4. Love Rhino

    Joe Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Hello there.
    >
    > I have 10+ years doing C/C++/Unix development writing
    > databases, compilers, and network software. I have
    > a few years of Java experience.
    >
    > I need to write a GUI application for the fairly recent
    > versions of Windows (NT, XP, 2000...). Since I'm all about
    > interoperability, I'm thinking about using Java to do it.
    > I don't have *any* GUI experience, nor Windows experience.
    >
    > My worry is that Java Swing isn't ideal for me. Many
    > developers I've talked to, and website reviews I've read,
    > say it's slow and overly complex for very simple things.
    >
    > I'm wondering if that's just old news, and the latest
    > version of Swing addresses those problems? If not, can
    > you recommend other alternatives to Swing, that are
    > reasonably fast and portable?
    >
    > My project is straight forward. Provide some buttons
    > for users to query a database, and display the data.
    > Some of the queries may require the user for specific
    > dates, amounts, etc. Provide some forms for users to
    > add data to a database. Later versions, I would like
    > the data to be displayed on a spreadsheet like table
    > and to be able to left/right click the cell for futher
    > drill downs, but that's later versions. My boss wants
    > a proof of concept, right now that doesn't look
    > ugly.
    >
    > I'm thinking about going the VB route, but my Unix
    > intuition says to stay away. The better solution is to
    > give the project to a GUI guy. :)
    >
    > Anyways, any suggestions would be great. Thanks for
    > your time!
    >



    I'm all for using the right tool for the right job. The terms you've
    heard describing Swing, "slow" and "overly-complex" are too vague to be
    of any use. The real question is: What is the right language for this
    application? From the requirements you've listed, I would say go with
    VB. The only reason not to would be if you think interoperability is
    going to be an issue at some future (near-future, actually) date.
    Joe, Sep 8, 2004
    #4
  5. steve coughed up:
    > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 04:31:38 +0800, Love Rhino wrote
    > (in article <>):
    >
    >> Hello there.
    >>
    >> I have 10+ years doing C/C++/Unix development writing
    >> databases, compilers, and network software. I have
    >> a few years of Java experience.
    >>
    >> I need to write a GUI application for the fairly recent
    >> versions of Windows (NT, XP, 2000...). Since I'm all about
    >> interoperability, I'm thinking about using Java to do it.
    >> I don't have *any* GUI experience, nor Windows experience.
    >>
    >> My worry is that Java Swing isn't ideal for me. Many
    >> developers I've talked to, and website reviews I've read,
    >> say it's slow and overly complex for very simple things.
    >>
    >> I'm wondering if that's just old news, and the latest
    >> version of Swing addresses those problems? If not, can
    >> you recommend other alternatives to Swing, that are
    >> reasonably fast and portable?
    >>
    >> My project is straight forward. Provide some buttons
    >> for users to query a database, and display the data.
    >> Some of the queries may require the user for specific
    >> dates, amounts, etc. Provide some forms for users to
    >> add data to a database. Later versions, I would like
    >> the data to be displayed on a spreadsheet like table
    >> and to be able to left/right click the cell for futher
    >> drill downs, but that's later versions. My boss wants
    >> a proof of concept, right now that doesn't look
    >> ugly.
    >>
    >> I'm thinking about going the VB route, but my Unix
    >> intuition says to stay away. The better solution is to
    >> give the project to a GUI guy. :)
    >>
    >> Anyways, any suggestions would be great. Thanks for
    >> your time!

    >
    > I would say you are talking to idiots, who are so far out of date on
    > their technical skill , it is sad.
    >
    > the trick with java is all in the threads, most bad developers try to
    > do everything in 1 thread, ( usually the graphics thread), so they
    > end up with shitty ,slow programs. which they then blame on the java.
    > The idea is to launch multiple threads , so that operations do not
    > block each other & bog your application down.


    ......While being exceedingly careful to remain thread-safe. Swing is not
    thread safe. Nor are the collection classes (by default). And even with
    totally thread safe classes, you can /still/ get yourself into hot water if
    you don't synchronize properly.

    Java is mighty powerful. But don't go thinking that you can just launch
    multiple threads without worry.


    >
    >
    >
    > check out the following: (iReport-Designer)
    > http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=64348
    >
    >
    > this will give you an idea as to speed, cross platform issues etc, of
    > using java. (I.E with a good programmer there are virtually none)
    >
    > it will also allow you to "Build" graphical reports tied to most
    > major databases.
    > it had a drag & drop interface, for fields/text etc.
    > ( you can compile 90% of the report, then the other 10% can be
    > queried from the user), or you can write a java plugin, that can
    > query the user during the running of the report.
    >
    >
    > this ties into Jasperreports (java)
    > http://sourceforge.net/projects/jasperreports
    >
    > which can produce and output reports in a number of different
    > formats.
    >
    > PDF/HTML/EXCEL/XML/ Whatever
    >
    >
    >
    > or go to
    > www.oracle.com
    > find "JDeveloper", this is a complete IDE written in java.
    >
    > I would guess , completing your task could be done in a morning , in
    > JDeveloper.
    >
    > if you are using ORACLE database, I can get you started, with any
    > help you need, on any of the above. if you are using another database
    > i cannot help too much.
    >
    >
    >
    > steve


    --
    Everythinginlifeisrealative.Apingpongballseemssmalluntilsomeoneramsitupyourn
    ose.
    Thomas G. Marshall, Sep 8, 2004
    #5
  6. Love Rhino

    Mark Wright Guest

    One joyful day (Wed, 08 Sep 2004 06:08:12 GMT to be precise), "Thomas G.
    Marshall" <> decided
    that the Usenet community would benefit from this remarkable comment:

    >.....While being exceedingly careful to remain thread-safe. Swing is not
    >thread safe.


    True, but provided all threaded Swing access is done via
    EventQueue.invokeLater() you shouldn't have any problems updating a GUI
    from threads.

    Mark Wright
    -

    ================Today's Thought====================
    "In places where books are burned, one day,
    people will be burned" - Heinrich Heine, Germany -
    100 years later, Hitler proved him right
    ===================================================
    Mark Wright, Sep 8, 2004
    #6
  7. Love Rhino

    Alex Hunsley Guest

    Mark Wright wrote:

    > One joyful day (Wed, 08 Sep 2004 06:08:12 GMT to be precise), "Thomas G.
    > Marshall" <> decided
    > that the Usenet community would benefit from this remarkable comment:
    >
    >
    >>.....While being exceedingly careful to remain thread-safe. Swing is not
    >>thread safe.

    >
    >
    > True, but provided all threaded Swing access is done via
    > EventQueue.invokeLater() you shouldn't have any problems updating a GUI
    > from threads.


    And conversely, any time consuming activity should be done *off* the GUI
    thread.....
    Alex Hunsley, Sep 8, 2004
    #7
  8. Mark Wright coughed up:
    > One joyful day (Wed, 08 Sep 2004 06:08:12 GMT to be precise), "Thomas
    > G. Marshall" <>
    > decided that the Usenet community would benefit from this remarkable
    > comment:
    >
    >> .....While being exceedingly careful to remain thread-safe. Swing
    >> is not thread safe.

    >
    > True, but provided all threaded Swing access is done via
    > EventQueue.invokeLater() you shouldn't have any problems updating a
    > GUI from threads.



    Ah, sure, and very good point for the OP. But that's not what I was
    responding do. Steve's post:

    Steve:
    the trick with java is all in the threads, most bad
    developers try to do everything in 1 thread, ( usually
    the graphics thread), so they end up with shitty ,slow
    programs. which they then blame on the java. The
    idea is to launch multiple threads , so that operations
    do not block each other & bog your application down.

    You, he, and I are correct. But his statement of (Para-Ph) "not doing
    everything in the graphics thread" and "launch[ing] multiple threads" needs
    a strong thread safety caveat, particularly for the OP who claims to have no
    GUI experience.

    ....[snip]...


    --
    Forgetthesong,I'dratherhavethefrontallobotomy...
    Thomas G. Marshall, Sep 8, 2004
    #8
  9. Alex Hunsley coughed up:
    > Mark Wright wrote:
    >
    >> One joyful day (Wed, 08 Sep 2004 06:08:12 GMT to be precise),
    >> "Thomas G. Marshall"
    >> <> decided that
    >> the Usenet community would benefit from this remarkable comment:
    >>
    >>
    >>> .....While being exceedingly careful to remain thread-safe. Swing
    >>> is not thread safe.

    >>
    >>
    >> True, but provided all threaded Swing access is done via
    >> EventQueue.invokeLater() you shouldn't have any problems updating a
    >> GUI from threads.

    >
    > And conversely, any time consuming activity should be done *off* the
    > GUI thread.....


    You bet! Just for the record, I don't Mark wasn't saying otherwise---he was
    responding to my caveat.

    --
    Forgetthesong,I'dratherhavethefrontallobotomy...
    Thomas G. Marshall, Sep 8, 2004
    #9
  10. Love Rhino

    Laurens Guest

    Love Rhino wrote:

    > I need to write a GUI application for the fairly recent
    > versions of Windows (NT, XP, 2000...). Since I'm all about
    > interoperability, I'm thinking about using Java to do it.
    > I don't have *any* GUI experience, nor Windows experience.
    >
    > My worry is that Java Swing isn't ideal for me. Many
    > developers I've talked to, and website reviews I've read,
    > say it's slow and overly complex for very simple things.


    I've worked with Swing for years, but have given up on it eventually.
    The performance in Java 1.4+ is acceptable and the JGoodies L&Fs improve
    the appearance immensely, but Swing apps still feel out-of-place. I
    don't agree with the notion that blocking the event thread is what makes
    Swing apps unresponsive. Blocking the event thread (or queue) will
    freeze any UI, no matter whether your use C++, Delphi or Java. Swing is
    simply more sluggish because it's layered on top of the native UI. It
    does not hook into the OS event queue the way a native UI does.

    If cross-platform compatibility isn't much of a concern (Windows-only,
    as in your case) then SWT is a good choice. It offers a truly native UI,
    while at the same time using *much* less memory. (Even if you leave
    performance out of the equation, Swing still uses far too much memory.)

    SWT's API is less powerful in the sense that it doesn't offer an MVC
    framework like Swing, but at the same it is easier and more
    straighforward to work with. Putting this in perspective: in the past,
    I've used Delphi and VC++ and neither offered an MVC framework like
    Swing, yet I was still able to be productive and deliver applications.

    I've released a freeware Windows-only app that uses SWT. You can find
    screenshots here: http://home.planet.nl/~fridael/sunrise/tour/

    This is a Swing app I made earlier: http://jpluck.sourceforge.net/

    Both do roughly the same: convert websites and newsfeeds to Plucker
    documents for offline reading on Palm OS handhelds.

    Anyway, that's my take on it. There have been so many SWT vs. Swing
    flamewars before. No need to start another one.


    Regards
    -Laurens
    Laurens, Sep 8, 2004
    #10
  11. Love Rhino

    Superdude Guest

    Well, whoever you are I just downloaded Sunrise. :)
    Superdude, Sep 8, 2004
    #11
  12. Love Rhino

    hempx Guest

    hempx, Sep 8, 2004
    #12
  13. On 8 Sep 2004 12:40:13 -0700, hempx wrote:

    > it wanted to help more, but I not speak English.


    You speak English well enough, your
    message was easy to understand.

    I would hate to read this group if every
    person who had to 'translate to English'
    stopped posting. The group would become
    very boring, and much less useful.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 8, 2004
    #13
  14. Andrew Thompson coughed up:
    > On 8 Sep 2004 12:40:13 -0700, hempx wrote:
    >
    >> it wanted to help more, but I not speak English.

    >
    > You speak English well enough, your
    > message was easy to understand.
    >
    > I would hate to read this group if every
    > person who had to 'translate to English'
    > stopped posting. The group would become
    > very boring, and much less useful.


    TBPH I can't say that one way or another. I suspect that America alone is
    big enough for useful dialogs. Same for the UK, or any sizable country.

    But I /do/ want to assure hempx that he did a fine job with his post, and
    encourage him and others without English as a native language to post more
    often.

    Heck, I was born into the English language, and I'm about as bad as they get
    :)...

    --
    Onedoctortoanother:"Ifthisismyrectalthermometer,wherethehell'smypen???"
    Thomas G. Marshall, Sep 8, 2004
    #14
  15. Laurens coughed up:
    > Love Rhino wrote:
    >
    >> I need to write a GUI application for the fairly recent
    >> versions of Windows (NT, XP, 2000...). Since I'm all about
    >> interoperability, I'm thinking about using Java to do it.
    >> I don't have *any* GUI experience, nor Windows experience.
    >>
    >> My worry is that Java Swing isn't ideal for me. Many
    >> developers I've talked to, and website reviews I've read,
    >> say it's slow and overly complex for very simple things.

    >
    > I've worked with Swing for years, but have given up on it eventually.
    > The performance in Java 1.4+ is acceptable and the JGoodies L&Fs
    > improve the appearance immensely, but Swing apps still feel
    > out-of-place. I don't agree with the notion that blocking the event
    > thread is what makes Swing apps unresponsive. Blocking the event
    > thread (or queue) will freeze any UI, no matter whether your use C++,
    > Delphi or Java. Swing is simply more sluggish because it's layered on
    > top of the native UI. It does not hook into the OS event queue the
    > way a native UI does.
    >
    > If cross-platform compatibility isn't much of a concern (Windows-only,
    > as in your case) then SWT is a good choice. It offers a truly native
    > UI, while at the same time using *much* less memory. (Even if you
    > leave performance out of the equation, Swing still uses far too much
    > memory.)


    My [wrong?] understanding is that it sets up a peer relationship and uses
    native windowing components much like the AWT does.

    This means that it oughta work just fine on all platforms, no? Isn't
    eclipse running on linux, for example?

    Furthermore, I have a question concerning SWT z-order. Z-order was one of
    the great undoings of the AWT, since, for example, the mac and the PC layer
    their components in opposite order. IIRC, the mac uses last on top, and the
    PC uses last underneath, or I may have that backwards.

    How does the SWT handle that issue?

    ....[rip]...

    --
    Onedoctortoanother:"Ifthisismyrectalthermometer,wherethehell'smypen???"
    Thomas G. Marshall, Sep 8, 2004
    #15
  16. On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:25:20 GMT, Thomas G. Marshall wrote:

    > Heck, I was born into the English language, and I'm about as bad as they get
    > :)...


    ;-) I was almost going to mention earlier,
    that I get help from a lot of people with
    'foreign sounding' names, and assume they
    grew up in America or Britain because
    they can correct my grammar, ..only to
    discover later that they had never as
    much as visited either country.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
    http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
    http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
    Andrew Thompson, Sep 8, 2004
    #16
  17. Love Rhino

    Laurens Guest

    Thomas G. Marshall wrote:

    > My [wrong?] understanding is that it sets up a peer relationship and uses
    > native windowing components much like the AWT does.


    You are correct. SWT creates native peers and in that respect it
    resembles AWT more than Swing. Discussions always revolve around Swing
    vs. SWT, while in fact SWT is really an alternative to AWT.

    > This means that it oughta work just fine on all platforms, no? Isn't
    > eclipse running on linux, for example?


    Well, I badly worded this in my previous post. What I meant to say is
    that SWT works best on Windows. The Linux/GTK implementation, for
    instance, has no printing support(or at least not last time I checked).
    The Windows implementation obviously gets the highest priority from the
    Eclipse team. Arguably, Swing behaves more consistently across platforms
    than SWT.

    > Furthermore, I have a question concerning SWT z-order. Z-order was one of
    > the great undoings of the AWT, since, for example, the mac and the PC layer
    > their components in opposite order. IIRC, the mac uses last on top, and the
    > PC uses last underneath, or I may have that backwards.
    >
    > How does the SWT handle that issue?


    Well, if you mean 3D layers then I don't know the answer. SWT does have
    a "z-order" concept but that refers to the order in which controls are
    laid out in a GridLayout.


    Regards
    -Laurens
    Laurens, Sep 9, 2004
    #17
  18. Laurens <> writes:

    > Swing is simply more sluggish because it's layered on top of the
    > native UI. It does not hook into the OS event queue the way a native
    > UI does.


    Swing components are _painted_ on top of native components. But the
    system event model is the same in Swing as in AWT. What Swing has
    extra are model events.

    And since 98% of Java code is compiled into native code at runtime
    anyway, it's not the "written in Java" aspect of Swing that slows it
    down, but rather the amount of events created and sent back and forth.
    Experienced Swing programmers reduce this by e.g. unregistering
    components with the ToolTipManager.

    > Windows-only


    That's the reason I avoid SWT: It only runs on whatever platform SWT
    has been ported to, while the AWT underlying Swing will simply be
    there in J2SE.
    Tor Iver Wilhelmsen, Sep 9, 2004
    #18
  19. Love Rhino

    michael Guest

    Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Laurens <> writes:
    >
    > > Swing is simply more sluggish because it's layered on top of the
    > > native UI. It does not hook into the OS event queue the way a native
    > > UI does.

    >
    > Swing components are _painted_ on top of native components. But the
    > system event model is the same in Swing as in AWT. What Swing has
    > extra are model events.
    >
    > And since 98% of Java code is compiled into native code at runtime
    > anyway, it's not the "written in Java" aspect of Swing that slows it
    > down, but rather the amount of events created and sent back and forth.
    > Experienced Swing programmers reduce this by e.g. unregistering
    > components with the ToolTipManager.
    >
    > > Windows-only

    >
    > That's the reason I avoid SWT: It only runs on whatever platform SWT
    > has been ported to, while the AWT underlying Swing will simply be
    > there in J2SE.


    how about an HTML GUI interface ? its fast , easy and reliable.

    thanks
    Michael
    michael, Sep 9, 2004
    #19
  20. Laurens coughed up:
    > Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
    >
    >> My [wrong?] understanding is that it sets up a peer relationship and
    >> uses native windowing components much like the AWT does.

    >
    > You are correct. SWT creates native peers and in that respect it
    > resembles AWT more than Swing. Discussions always revolve around Swing
    > vs. SWT, while in fact SWT is really an alternative to AWT.
    >
    >> This means that it oughta work just fine on all platforms, no? Isn't
    >> eclipse running on linux, for example?

    >
    > Well, I badly worded this in my previous post. What I meant to say is
    > that SWT works best on Windows. The Linux/GTK implementation, for
    > instance, has no printing support(or at least not last time I
    > checked). The Windows implementation obviously gets the highest
    > priority from the Eclipse team. Arguably, Swing behaves more
    > consistently across platforms than SWT.
    >
    >> Furthermore, I have a question concerning SWT z-order. Z-order was
    >> one of the great undoings of the AWT, since, for example, the mac
    >> and the PC layer their components in opposite order. IIRC, the mac
    >> uses last on top, and the PC uses last underneath, or I may have
    >> that backwards.
    >>
    >> How does the SWT handle that issue?

    >
    > Well, if you mean 3D layers then I don't know the answer.


    (go fixed width font)

    No, if you have widget1 and then "place" widget2 (in that order), are you
    guaranteed the following on all platforms?

    +----------------+
    | |
    | 1 |
    | |
    | +-------+------+
    | | |
    | | |
    | | |
    +--------+ |
    | 2 |
    | |
    | |
    +--------------+

    Or do you get the following on some, like the mac:

    +----------------+
    | |
    | 1 |
    | |
    | +------+
    | | |
    | | |
    | | |
    +--------+-------+ |
    | 2 |
    | |
    | |
    +--------------+


    > SWT does
    > have a "z-order" concept but that refers to the order in which
    > controls are laid out in a GridLayout.
    >
    >
    > Regards
    > -Laurens


    --
    http://www.allexperts.com is a nifty way to get an answer to just about
    /anything/.
    Thomas G. Marshall, Sep 9, 2004
    #20
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