is python more popular than coldfusion?

Discussion in 'Python' started by worzel, Jan 5, 2005.

  1. worzel

    worzel Guest

    is python more popular than coldfusion?

    I realsie that is a very general question as one thing does not directly relate to the other. My issue is that I am ditching coldfusion due to there being next to no work for it, and I am thinking of taking on python as a second language to java in the hope of improving my resume.
    worzel, Jan 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. worzel

    Fuzzyman Guest

    Fuzzyman, Jan 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:59:21 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > is python more popular than coldfusion?


    I don't know if Coldfusion _was_ ever more "popular" than Python, but
    Python is definitely more "popular" _now_.

    This might be of some help: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm

    >
    > I realsie that is a very general question as one thing does not directly
    > relate to the other. My issue is that I am ditching coldfusion due to there
    > being next to no work for it, and I am thinking of taking on python as a
    > second language to java in the hope of improving my resume.
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >
    >



    --
    Premshree Pillai
    http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree
    Premshree Pillai, Jan 5, 2005
    #3
  4. worzel

    worzel Guest

    How seriuosly do folk take the TIOBE index? Is it a good way to ague what
    you should be keeping up to speed with or just a 'vague' guide?



    "Premshree Pillai" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:59:21 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> is python more popular than coldfusion?

    >
    > I don't know if Coldfusion _was_ ever more "popular" than Python, but
    > Python is definitely more "popular" _now_.
    >
    > This might be of some help: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
    >
    >>
    >> I realsie that is a very general question as one thing does not directly
    >> relate to the other. My issue is that I am ditching coldfusion due to
    >> there
    >> being next to no work for it, and I am thinking of taking on python as a
    >> second language to java in the hope of improving my resume.
    >> --
    >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > --
    > Premshree Pillai
    > http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree
    worzel, Jan 5, 2005
    #4
  5. On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:09:54 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    > How seriuosly do folk take the TIOBE index? Is it a good way to ague what
    > you should be keeping up to speed with or just a 'vague' guide?


    I use the TIOBE index -- sometimes -- when I give presentations on
    Python (and Ruby) to people who haven't heard of the languages.

    The index is not something to be relied upon (take a look at the
    calculation mechanism). However, more often than not, the indices
    seems to reflect what *I* perceive the indices are in reality. So I
    kinda use them.

    The thing about introducing a "new" language to a bunch of folks used
    to their "favorite" language is that they wouldn't care much for a
    language it isn't popular, or if it isn't "growing in popularity".

    Beyond these things, I don't think anybody uses the index. I mean I
    wouldn't tell people to learn languages that hold the top position on
    TIOBE ;).

    >
    > "Premshree Pillai" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:59:21 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> is python more popular than coldfusion?

    > >
    > > I don't know if Coldfusion _was_ ever more "popular" than Python, but
    > > Python is definitely more "popular" _now_.
    > >
    > > This might be of some help: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
    > >
    > >>
    > >> I realsie that is a very general question as one thing does not directly
    > >> relate to the other. My issue is that I am ditching coldfusion due to
    > >> there
    > >> being next to no work for it, and I am thinking of taking on python as a
    > >> second language to java in the hope of improving my resume.
    > >> --
    > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Premshree Pillai
    > > http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree

    >
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >



    --
    Premshree Pillai
    http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree
    Premshree Pillai, Jan 5, 2005
    #5
  6. worzel

    worzel Guest

    Wth respect to coldfusion, is there much doubt about the fact that Python is
    a more prominent and important technology?

    How is colfusion percieved by the Python community? Many people belive
    coldfusion is becomeing irrelavant and is on its death bed - do Python folk
    generally feel this way about it?

    Thanks for your input on this by the way.

    "Premshree Pillai" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:09:54 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    >> How seriuosly do folk take the TIOBE index? Is it a good way to ague what
    >> you should be keeping up to speed with or just a 'vague' guide?

    >
    > I use the TIOBE index -- sometimes -- when I give presentations on
    > Python (and Ruby) to people who haven't heard of the languages.
    >
    > The index is not something to be relied upon (take a look at the
    > calculation mechanism). However, more often than not, the indices
    > seems to reflect what *I* perceive the indices are in reality. So I
    > kinda use them.
    >
    > The thing about introducing a "new" language to a bunch of folks used
    > to their "favorite" language is that they wouldn't care much for a
    > language it isn't popular, or if it isn't "growing in popularity".
    >
    > Beyond these things, I don't think anybody uses the index. I mean I
    > wouldn't tell people to learn languages that hold the top position on
    > TIOBE ;).
    >
    >>
    >> "Premshree Pillai" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:59:21 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> is python more popular than coldfusion?
    >> >
    >> > I don't know if Coldfusion _was_ ever more "popular" than Python, but
    >> > Python is definitely more "popular" _now_.
    >> >
    >> > This might be of some help: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
    >> >
    >> >>
    >> >> I realsie that is a very general question as one thing does not
    >> >> directly
    >> >> relate to the other. My issue is that I am ditching coldfusion due to
    >> >> there
    >> >> being next to no work for it, and I am thinking of taking on python as
    >> >> a
    >> >> second language to java in the hope of improving my resume.
    >> >> --
    >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> > Premshree Pillai
    >> > http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree

    >>
    >> --
    >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >>

    >
    >
    > --
    > Premshree Pillai
    > http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree
    worzel, Jan 5, 2005
    #6
  7. On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:30:40 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    > Wth respect to coldfusion, is there much doubt about the fact that Python is
    > a more prominent and important technology?


    No doubt in my mind at least.

    >
    > How is colfusion percieved by the Python community? Many people belive
    > coldfusion is becomeing irrelavant and is on its death bed - do Python folk
    > generally feel this way about it?


    I have no much idea about Coldfusion, but as far as its *use* is
    concerned, it definitely isn't much.

    >
    > Thanks for your input on this by the way.
    >
    > "Premshree Pillai" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:09:54 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    > >> How seriuosly do folk take the TIOBE index? Is it a good way to ague what
    > >> you should be keeping up to speed with or just a 'vague' guide?

    > >
    > > I use the TIOBE index -- sometimes -- when I give presentations on
    > > Python (and Ruby) to people who haven't heard of the languages.
    > >
    > > The index is not something to be relied upon (take a look at the
    > > calculation mechanism). However, more often than not, the indices
    > > seems to reflect what *I* perceive the indices are in reality. So I
    > > kinda use them.
    > >
    > > The thing about introducing a "new" language to a bunch of folks used
    > > to their "favorite" language is that they wouldn't care much for a
    > > language it isn't popular, or if it isn't "growing in popularity".
    > >
    > > Beyond these things, I don't think anybody uses the index. I mean I
    > > wouldn't tell people to learn languages that hold the top position on
    > > TIOBE ;).
    > >
    > >>
    > >> "Premshree Pillai" <> wrote in message
    > >> news:...
    > >> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:59:21 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >> is python more popular than coldfusion?
    > >> >
    > >> > I don't know if Coldfusion _was_ ever more "popular" than Python, but
    > >> > Python is definitely more "popular" _now_.
    > >> >
    > >> > This might be of some help: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
    > >> >
    > >> >>
    > >> >> I realsie that is a very general question as one thing does not
    > >> >> directly
    > >> >> relate to the other. My issue is that I am ditching coldfusion due to
    > >> >> there
    > >> >> being next to no work for it, and I am thinking of taking on python as
    > >> >> a
    > >> >> second language to java in the hope of improving my resume.
    > >> >> --
    > >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > --
    > >> > Premshree Pillai
    > >> > http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Premshree Pillai
    > > http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree

    >
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >



    --
    Premshree Pillai
    http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree
    Premshree Pillai, Jan 5, 2005
    #7
  8. worzel

    worzel Guest

    thanks, thats pretty much what I expected to hear.

    "Premshree Pillai" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:30:40 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    >> Wth respect to coldfusion, is there much doubt about the fact that Python
    >> is
    >> a more prominent and important technology?

    >
    > No doubt in my mind at least.
    >
    >>
    >> How is colfusion percieved by the Python community? Many people belive
    >> coldfusion is becomeing irrelavant and is on its death bed - do Python
    >> folk
    >> generally feel this way about it?

    >
    > I have no much idea about Coldfusion, but as far as its *use* is
    > concerned, it definitely isn't much.
    >
    >>
    >> Thanks for your input on this by the way.
    >>
    >> "Premshree Pillai" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:09:54 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    >> >> How seriuosly do folk take the TIOBE index? Is it a good way to ague
    >> >> what
    >> >> you should be keeping up to speed with or just a 'vague' guide?
    >> >
    >> > I use the TIOBE index -- sometimes -- when I give presentations on
    >> > Python (and Ruby) to people who haven't heard of the languages.
    >> >
    >> > The index is not something to be relied upon (take a look at the
    >> > calculation mechanism). However, more often than not, the indices
    >> > seems to reflect what *I* perceive the indices are in reality. So I
    >> > kinda use them.
    >> >
    >> > The thing about introducing a "new" language to a bunch of folks used
    >> > to their "favorite" language is that they wouldn't care much for a
    >> > language it isn't popular, or if it isn't "growing in popularity".
    >> >
    >> > Beyond these things, I don't think anybody uses the index. I mean I
    >> > wouldn't tell people to learn languages that hold the top position on
    >> > TIOBE ;).
    >> >
    >> >>
    >> >> "Premshree Pillai" <> wrote in message
    >> >> news:...
    >> >> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:59:21 +0800, worzel <> wrote:
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> is python more popular than coldfusion?
    >> >> >
    >> >> > I don't know if Coldfusion _was_ ever more "popular" than Python,
    >> >> > but
    >> >> > Python is definitely more "popular" _now_.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > This might be of some help: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
    >> >> >
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> I realsie that is a very general question as one thing does not
    >> >> >> directly
    >> >> >> relate to the other. My issue is that I am ditching coldfusion due
    >> >> >> to
    >> >> >> there
    >> >> >> being next to no work for it, and I am thinking of taking on python
    >> >> >> as
    >> >> >> a
    >> >> >> second language to java in the hope of improving my resume.
    >> >> >> --
    >> >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> > --
    >> >> > Premshree Pillai
    >> >> > http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree
    >> >>
    >> >> --
    >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> > Premshree Pillai
    >> > http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree

    >>
    >> --
    >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >>

    >
    >
    > --
    > Premshree Pillai
    > http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree
    worzel, Jan 5, 2005
    #8
  9. worzel

    Guest

    >is python more popular than coldfusion?

    >I realsie that is a very general question as one thing does not

    directly
    >relate to the other. My issue is that I am ditching coldfusion due to
    >there being next to no work for it, and I am thinking of taking on
    >python as a second language to java in the hope of improving my

    resume.

    For your specific purpose of learning a language to get a job, I
    suggest visiting the site http://mshiltonj.com/sm/categories/languages/
    , where it appears that Python is mentioned about as often as Fortran
    or Ada in job listings at dice.com . Apart from Java, two languages in
    demand are C++ and Visual Basic. C++ may be easier to learn along with
    Java since the syntax is similar, but VB is a very easy language to
    learn and use.
    , Jan 5, 2005
    #9
  10. worzel

    Guest

    OTOH,

    Here are the numbers for Average Salary by Languages Used (2 numbers,
    staff and management) in ascending order from the 2004 Salary Survey
    from Software Development Magazine. I am surprised that there is so
    little variation across languages: 13 out of 22 are in the $81-$85K
    range. But Python IS tied for first. This may indicate that the
    relatively small number of jobs listing Python as a requirement is due
    in part to a relatively small supply of Python programmers, not lack of
    demand for such programmers.

    Delphi/Object Pascal $76K $96K
    Cobol $76K $95K
    EDI $78K $98K
    ..NET $79K $98K
    Oracle/SQL Server/Sybase/database $80K $100K
    SAP/PeopleSoft/Oracle/ERP $81K $100K
    C# $81K $100K
    Perl/Javascript/PHP/scripting $81K $100K
    Lotus Notes/groupware $82K $101K
    Java $83K $102K
    Fortran $83K $102K
    C++ $84K $103K
    JavaBeans/ActiveX/component $84K $101K
    C $84K $104K
    Ada $84K $105K
    Biztalk/Crossworlds/bus. integration $84K $99K
    SOAP $85K $103K
    J2EE $85K $105K
    CORBA/COM/middleware $87K $106K
    J2ME $88K $104K
    Python $89K $105K
    Java messaging $89K $106K
    , Jan 5, 2005
    #10
  11. worzel

    Paul Rubin Guest

    writes:
    > But Python IS tied for first. This may indicate that the
    > relatively small number of jobs listing Python as a requirement is due
    > in part to a relatively small supply of Python programmers, not lack of
    > demand for such programmers.


    I think it mostly means Python programmers tend to be further up the
    overall experience and proficiency scale than, say, .NET programmers.
    Paul Rubin, Jan 5, 2005
    #11
  12. worzel wrote:
    > Wth respect to coldfusion, is there much doubt about the fact that

    Python is
    > a more prominent and important technology?
    >
    > How is colfusion percieved by the Python community? Many people

    belive
    > coldfusion is becomeing irrelavant and is on its death bed - do

    Python folk
    > generally feel this way about it?


    I think this is a little bit like comparing oranges to apples...
    I wouldn't say Coldfusion is a programming language. It is a tag based
    scripting language designed for web development and, as such, it is
    very easy to learn and use, but its application domain is limited to
    the web. It comes in handy if you're a designer with no programming
    skills and you want to hook your site to a database or do some easy web
    development, but I think that professional developers (non-designers)
    use other alternatives ranging from php (open source, free) to asp.net
    (propietary -MS).

    On the other hand, python is a general purpose programming language and
    it can be used for almost anything you can think of. It is not just a
    web scripting language.

    My advice: if you want to learn something for getting a job and making
    a living, forget about Coldfusion. It is ok for a web designer or for a
    hobbyist who doesn't know and doesn't want to know about programming,
    but who needs to get the job done with the least delay.

    Now if you're serious about making a living as a programmer, and you
    are willing to study and learn, (and provided you're new to
    programming) I would highly recommend python as your first language.
    It is very easy to learn and with it, you'll learn advanced programming
    concepts quickier and easier than by studying java, for example,
    because its syntax is cleaner and much more concise, easy to read and
    to the point.
    Then, and once you have a good grasp about the basics of programming
    and object oriented concepts, you will be able to learn any other
    language such as java or c# (for making big bucks).

    And if you are not interested in learning another language, python
    alone will make a very good general purpose programming language.
    Why the way, it's also very fun!
    Luis M. Gonzalez, Jan 5, 2005
    #12
  13. worzel

    Mike Meyer Guest

    writes:

    >>is python more popular than coldfusion?

    > For your specific purpose of learning a language to get a job, I
    > suggest visiting the site http://mshiltonj.com/sm/categories/languages/
    > , where it appears that Python is mentioned about as often as Fortran
    > or Ada in job listings at dice.com . Apart from Java, two languages in
    > demand are C++ and Visual Basic. C++ may be easier to learn along with
    > Java since the syntax is similar, but VB is a very easy language to
    > learn and use.


    SQL is also in pretty high demand in the places I watch. Problem is,
    they usually want *specific* SQL variants, so it's a fragmented
    market.

    <mike
    --
    Mike Meyer <> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
    Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
    Mike Meyer, Jan 5, 2005
    #13
  14. On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 13:54:53 -0600, Mike Meyer <> wrote:
    > writes:
    >
    > >>is python more popular than coldfusion?

    > > For your specific purpose of learning a language to get a job, I
    > > suggest visiting the site http://mshiltonj.com/sm/categories/languages/
    > > , where it appears that Python is mentioned about as often as Fortran
    > > or Ada in job listings at dice.com . Apart from Java, two languages in
    > > demand are C++ and Visual Basic. C++ may be easier to learn along with
    > > Java since the syntax is similar, but VB is a very easy language to
    > > learn and use.

    >
    > SQL is also in pretty high demand in the places I watch. Problem is,


    Umm, but SQL is not a _programming_ language. If you're job requires
    DB stuff, knowledge of SQL would probably be a requisite, but SQL
    alone, of course, won't do much good.

    > they usually want *specific* SQL variants, so it's a fragmented
    > market.
    >
    > <mike
    > --
    > Mike Meyer <> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
    > Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >



    --
    Premshree Pillai
    http://www.livejournal.com/~premshree
    Premshree Pillai, Jan 5, 2005
    #14
  15. worzel

    worzel Guest

    Thanks for all the feedback guys.

    It seems CF is not really a big money earner or even recognised as a serious language to many folk.

    by the way, does anybody want to buy any coldfusion books :)

    (I just bought O'Reileys 'Learning Python' - its extremely readable and very thorough)

    "worzel" <> wrote in message news:41dbd699$0$23092$...
    is python more popular than coldfusion?

    I realsie that is a very general question as one thing does not directly relate to the other. My issue is that I am ditching coldfusion due to there being next to no work for it, and I am thinking of taking on python as a second language to java in the hope of improving my resume.
    worzel, Jan 6, 2005
    #15
  16. > by the way, does anybody want to buy any coldfusion books :)

    I have Sam's Teach Yourself Coldfusion by Charles Mohnike, which I
    bought in 2001.
    By this time I used to think that I was learning rocket science the
    easy way, and thinking about learning php or asp was really scary...
    these codes looked very complex for my uninitiated eyes.
    However, It was good for grasping the logic of interacting with a
    database through sql and making my website dynamic.
    Soon I realized that finding a cheap CF hosting wasn't easy at all, and
    I started to read about php.
    Php is also for web development, but it gave me the basic knowledge to
    understand programming.
    However, I wanted to learn a more general purpose language and I don't
    remember how, I landed in pythonland.

    Let me tell you that I could learn python basics in just a few hours.
    Once I got the interpreter running, I couldn't stop!
    Just get one of the many tutorial available on the web and start
    playing. YOU'LL SEE IT'S ADDICTIVE.

    If you want to start from zero, I suggest Josh Cogliati's beginner
    tutorial.
    Another good introduction is A Byte of Python (google this), or any of
    the ones quoted in Python's web site.

    Learning Python is a good book too (especially the second edition).
    Enjoy!
    Luis M. Gonzalez, Jan 6, 2005
    #16
  17. worzel

    worzel Guest

    re:
    YOU'LL SEE IT'S ADDICTIVE

    Yes, I know! I am hooked already! Its such a breeze after doing so much Java
    programming. I just download Jython - the possibilities with this seem
    incredible.

    Unlike you, I learned Coldfusion after learning Java first (about 1996). For
    the sake of a couple of jobs I got on and then some training work as a
    Macromedia Instructor, it was okay for a while. But, the work dried up, and
    then the training became in very low demand, so I find myself looking for a
    new 'second language' - Python is it! (Its in danger of becoming my 'first
    language' as I am enjoying it so much!)




    "Luis M. Gonzalez" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> by the way, does anybody want to buy any coldfusion books :)

    >
    > I have Sam's Teach Yourself Coldfusion by Charles Mohnike, which I
    > bought in 2001.
    > By this time I used to think that I was learning rocket science the
    > easy way, and thinking about learning php or asp was really scary...
    > these codes looked very complex for my uninitiated eyes.
    > However, It was good for grasping the logic of interacting with a
    > database through sql and making my website dynamic.
    > Soon I realized that finding a cheap CF hosting wasn't easy at all, and
    > I started to read about php.
    > Php is also for web development, but it gave me the basic knowledge to
    > understand programming.
    > However, I wanted to learn a more general purpose language and I don't
    > remember how, I landed in pythonland.
    >
    > Let me tell you that I could learn python basics in just a few hours.
    > Once I got the interpreter running, I couldn't stop!
    > Just get one of the many tutorial available on the web and start
    > playing. YOU'LL SEE IT'S ADDICTIVE.
    >
    > If you want to start from zero, I suggest Josh Cogliati's beginner
    > tutorial.
    > Another good introduction is A Byte of Python (google this), or any of
    > the ones quoted in Python's web site.
    >
    > Learning Python is a good book too (especially the second edition).
    > Enjoy!
    >
    worzel, Jan 6, 2005
    #17
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