Is the average IQ of C programmers less than that of C++ programmers?

M

Michael Press

Kenneth Brody said:
On 3/29/2011 6:24 AM, Chris H wrote:
[...]
Clever code is usually an oxymoron.

BTW That is why English is the most common language on the planet as a
second language. It is easier to teach basic English that can be
understood than any other language. (Even Americans manage basic
English :)

Well, _most_ of us can. I've seen plenty who struggle with even the basics.
:)

Speak for yourself. I recognize, publish, and reject his bigotry.
 
M

Michael Press

William Ahern said:
I ask because over the years I've heard claims such as you repeated, and
have personally investigated notions about English and claims of English
proficiency. About ten or twelve years ago I sent a letter to the Embassy of
India--the cultural attache, I think--inquiring about English proficiency. I
occassionaly poke around in books and articles looking for more solid
analyses, rather than anecdotes from English speakers or enthusiastic ESL
speakers; they're few and far between.

For example, while the Indian gov't will claim 20-25% English proficiency
(generally conversational fluency if not stated explicitly), some
independent reports put conversational fluency at 1-5%. Most books repeat
various numbers without citations to sources. As far as I can gather, there
are various reasons for the gaps, all interesting in themselves (untested
assumptions about the efficacy of compulsory language education; economic
competitiveness pressures).

This topic is interesting because it's a niche area to study and examine
cultural biases, and in general the dynamics of globalization.

I expect English was easiest to teach to WWII pilots
in England because everybody spoke English in the pubs.

A pint of your best bitter, s'il vous plaît.
 
G

Geoff

I expect English was easiest to teach to WWII pilots
in England because everybody spoke English in the pubs.

A pint of your best bitter, s'il vous plaît.

.... and anyone speaking German in the pubs was shot before they could
down their draught.
 
K

Kleuskes & Moos

English idioms are very difficult for non native english speaking
people to master. English idiom dictionaries in Japan are as common
as English Japanese dictionaries

Idiom in any language is hard to master and it's usually best to stay
away from it as much as possible, unless you're quite sure of tge
meaning and the implications of the idiom used.
 
M

Michael Press

Kleuskes & Moos said:
Idiom in any language is hard to master and it's usually best to stay
away from it as much as possible, unless you're quite sure of tge
meaning and the implications of the idiom used.

Well before google search a bunch of us were at dinner
and something I had wondered about came to mind, so I
decided to ask a USA born, native English speaker who
had a certificate attesting to a completion of a course
in French studies from Université Paris-Sorbonne
(before they reorganized it all) . "Scarlet," I asked,
"what does `je ne sais quoi' mean?" Immediately she
said "I don't know what." My jaw dropped, Scarlet
stared at me with an amused expression, and then the
penny dropped.

Later told a friend about the incident. He stared at me
blankly; and did not get the joke. Probably has not to
this day, as I never explained it to him.
 
M

Mark Storkamp

Michael Press said:
Well before google search a bunch of us were at dinner
and something I had wondered about came to mind, so I
decided to ask a USA born, native English speaker who
had a certificate attesting to a completion of a course
in French studies from Université Paris-Sorbonne
(before they reorganized it all) . "Scarlet," I asked,
"what does `je ne sais quoi' mean?" Immediately she
said "I don't know what." My jaw dropped, Scarlet
stared at me with an amused expression, and then the
penny dropped.

Later told a friend about the incident. He stared at me
blankly; and did not get the joke. Probably has not to
this day, as I never explained it to him.

I don't speak French, but I assume it's similar to "What's the
difference between ignorance and apathy?", "I don't know, and I don't
care."
 
C

Chris H

In message said:
I don't speak French, but I assume it's similar to "What's the
difference between ignorance and apathy?", "I don't know, and I don't
care."

No it is something indescribable or undeniable

eg "He has a certain je ne sais quoi" means he has that indefinable
quality that set him apart. Eg James Bond has je ne sais quoi'
 
W

Willem

Chris H wrote:
) In message <[email protected]>,
)>In article <[email protected]>,
)>> Well before google search a bunch of us were at dinner
)>> and something I had wondered about came to mind, so I
)>> decided to ask a USA born, native English speaker who
)>> had a certificate attesting to a completion of a course
)>> in French studies from Universit?? Paris-Sorbonne
)>> (before they reorganized it all) . "Scarlet," I asked,
)>> "what does `je ne sais quoi' mean?" Immediately she
)>> said "I don't know what." My jaw dropped, Scarlet
)>> stared at me with an amused expression, and then the
)>> penny dropped.
)>>
)>> Later told a friend about the incident. He stared at me
)>> blankly; and did not get the joke. Probably has not to
)>> this day, as I never explained it to him.
)>
)>I don't speak French, but I assume it's similar to "What's the
)>difference between ignorance and apathy?", "I don't know, and I don't
)>care."
)
) No it is something indescribable or undeniable
)
) eg "He has a certain je ne sais quoi" means he has that indefinable
) quality that set him apart. Eg James Bond has je ne sais quoi'

I think you missed the point, he wasn't talking about the phrase itself.

Chris was referring to the analogy between the two jokes: Both of them
have an actual answer, but the answer sounds as if the answerer is not
actually answering the question.


SaSW, Willem
--
Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be
drugged or something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you !
#EOT
 
D

Dr Nick

Michael Press said:
Well before google search a bunch of us were at dinner
and something I had wondered about came to mind, so I
decided to ask a USA born, native English speaker who
had a certificate attesting to a completion of a course
in French studies from Université Paris-Sorbonne
(before they reorganized it all) . "Scarlet," I asked,
"what does `je ne sais quoi' mean?" Immediately she
said "I don't know what." My jaw dropped, Scarlet
stared at me with an amused expression, and then the
penny dropped.

A conversation as follows took place last night:
She: "What games do we have on the boat"
Me:" Sorry..."
She: "What games to we have on the boat"
Me:" Sorry..."
She... as we both realised what had happened and kept repeating the
endless conversation. You get what entertainment you can round here.
 
N

Nick Keighley

Le 29/03/11 21:57, William Ahern a écrit :



Forming the past of a verb?

Just add "ed" and learn the few irregulars. No complicated rules.

No distinction between the familiar "you" and the honored person "you"
like Spanish or French.

Concise language. A text in English is 30-40% smaller than the same text
in French or other Latin languages.

The universal "The": you just say "The table" and do not have to worry
if the table is a female/male/no sex/ "thing" like in other languages
like Spanish.

Reading English is easy, and understanding the basics is easier to learn
than other languages.

obviously you know better than me, but isn't english highly
irregular? I've known several people for whom english was a second
language and they all moaned about its illogic. Actually they were
mostly Italian (and I understand Italian is very logical in its
spelling)
 
N

Nick Keighley

English idioms are very difficult for non native english speaking
people to master. English idiom dictionaries in Japan are as common
as English Japanese dictionaries

an Italian complained to me about english idioms, I wished him "un de
Lupo"

I suspect *all* languages have idioms. Une nomme d'une pipe.
 
N

Nick Keighley

Idiom in any language is hard to master and it's usually best to stay
away from it as much as possible, unless you're quite sure of tge
meaning and the implications of the idiom used.

I've seen the look of horror in none-first-language-speakers of
english when cockney rhyming slang is explained to them...

I've also heard an Italian explain it to a French Canadian, which was
kind of odd!
 
C

Chris H

In message <[email protected]
..com> said:
obviously you know better than me, but isn't english highly
irregular? I've known several people for whom english was a second
language and they all moaned about its illogic. Actually they were
mostly Italian (and I understand Italian is very logical in its
spelling)

True but basic English is simple. The original requirement was to teach
pilots to fly. So it was simple sentences and commands not poetry and
prose.
 
T

Tobias Blass

obviously you know better than me, but isn't english highly
irregular? I've known several people for whom english was a second
language and they all moaned about its illogic. Actually they were
mostly Italian (and I understand Italian is very logical in its
spelling)

English is irregular, but the grammar itself is really easy. If you just
want to communicate with english-speaking people they will understand
"I teached". So you can make simple sentences without much learning effort,
but to speak and write good english you have to learn a lot of irregular
verbs and idioms (and the spelling of course).
 
W

Willem

Nick Keighley wrote:
) obviously you know better than me, but isn't english highly
) irregular? I've known several people for whom english was a second
) language and they all moaned about its illogic. Actually they were
) mostly Italian (and I understand Italian is very logical in its
) spelling)

True, but you remove irregular from English, still quite easy understand.


SaSW, Willem
--
Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be
drugged or something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you !
#EOT
 
J

John Gordon

In said:
True but basic English is simple. The original requirement was to teach
pilots to fly. So it was simple sentences and commands not poetry and
prose.

"Go" is a very common English verb.

The past tense of "to go" is "went". wtf?!
 
C

Chris H

Willem said:
Nick Keighley wrote:
) obviously you know better than me, but isn't english highly
) irregular? I've known several people for whom english was a second
) language and they all moaned about its illogic. Actually they were
) mostly Italian (and I understand Italian is very logical in its
) spelling)

True, but you remove irregular from English, still quite easy understand.

#That was the point... you can be understood in basic English (even if
grammatically incorrect) faster than any other language.
 

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