Is there a C certificate?

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Leo, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. Leo

    Leo Guest

    Dear All,

    I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    prove somebody's C skills.

    I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C questions
    which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions in the future job
    interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate. But I don't know
    if there is one.

    Thank you very much.
    Leo, Jan 10, 2006
    #1
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  2. Leo

    Michael Mair Guest

    Leo wrote:
    > Dear All,
    >
    > I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    > prove somebody's C skills.
    >
    > I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C questions
    > which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions in the future job
    > interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate. But I don't know
    > if there is one.


    AFAIK, none that really says much.
    Learn C, write a couple of outstanding programs in C and put
    the source up on your homepage. Refer people asking for your
    C skills to this homepage.

    If you do not want to work for being able to prove your C
    skills, then consider to admit that you have none. This avoids
    the awkwardness of other people trying to elicit traces of C
    knowledge from you.

    -Michael
    --
    E-Mail: Mine is an /at/ gmx /dot/ de address.
    Michael Mair, Jan 10, 2006
    #2
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  3. Leo

    Nelu Guest

    > Dear All,
    >
    > I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    > prove somebody's C skills.

    There is K&R and other books to learn from.

    >
    > I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C questions
    > which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions in the future job
    > interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate. But I don't know
    > if there is one.

    Learning C will help you answer questions about C. A certificate
    may not be the answer. I know people that have different certificates but
    don't know much anyway. You should learn how to answer the questions
    not how to avoid them :). This being said, I have no clue if there are
    specific tests for C certification but, if there are, someone will
    undoubtetly answer. Stick around.


    --
    Ioan - Ciprian Tandau
    tandau _at_ freeshell _dot_ org (hope it's not too late)
    (... and that it still works...)
    Nelu, Jan 10, 2006
    #3
  4. Leo

    Default User Guest

    Leo wrote:

    > Dear All,
    >
    > I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    > prove somebody's C skills.
    >
    > I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C
    > questions which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions in
    > the future job interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate.
    > But I don't know if there is one.



    "We'd like to ask you a few questions to test your C knowledge."

    "No need, I have a C Certificate!"

    "Just the same . . ."


    You're better off becoming proficient in the language. That means
    things like reading and answering the questions textbook, and writing
    programs. And more programs. Was writing programs mentioned? Yeah, do
    that.



    Brian

    --
    Please quote enough of the previous message for context. To do so from
    Google, click "show options" and use the Reply shown in the expanded
    header.
    Default User, Jan 10, 2006
    #4
  5. There is no certificate that can prove your skills better than actual
    experience.

    The Grue
    James T. Sprinkle \(The Grue\), Jan 10, 2006
    #5
  6. Leo

    Mike Wahler Guest

    "Leo" <> wrote in message news:dq1djv$btpo$...
    > Dear All,
    >
    > I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    > prove somebody's C skills.
    >
    > I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C questions
    > which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions in the future job
    > interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate.


    Possession of such a certificate is not going to stop
    anyone from asking questions. Nor should it.

    They're asking these questions in order to determine
    your knowledge. If you want to show them that you
    have the desired knowledge, you first need to acquire
    that knowledge. Any 'certificate' or other document
    that might arise from this is imo just a 'side effect'.

    > But I don't know if there is one.


    If you want a job writing C, you need to learn C.
    So learn it. Do it at a school or on your own
    or with a tutor, etc. Then you'll know it, and
    will be able to answer interview questions.

    -Mike
    Mike Wahler, Jan 11, 2006
    #6
  7. Leo

    Chuck F. Guest

    Leo wrote:
    >
    > I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C
    > which can prove somebody's C skills.
    >
    > I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C
    > questions which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions
    > in the future job interview, I hope to take some kind of C
    > certificate. But I don't know if there is one.


    Buy K&R, read it, do all the exercises, and lurk here. Then you
    will be well prepared.

    --
    "If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
    the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
    "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
    "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
    More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
    Chuck F., Jan 11, 2006
    #7
  8. Leo

    Guest

    Leo wrote:
    > Dear All,
    >
    > I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    > prove somebody's C skills.
    >


    Yes, there is. It is called a degree, either Computer Science or
    Electronic Engineering (Computing). Although these days some CS schools
    are turning to 100% Java so in a few years even a degree won't be able
    to 'prove' that you can do C. And you better hope the interviewer is
    not a regular here at comp.lang.c since neither a degree or 10 years of
    experience coding C impress them much.

    > I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C questions
    > which I was not prepared well.


    In which case you should and must also fail any form of C
    'certification' out there.

    > To avoid such questions in the future job
    > interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate.


    I have an engineering degree and 6+ years of professional, industrial
    experience coding C (10 years if you want to include my academic years)
    and I still get asked such questions. What makes you think a
    'certificate' will help you here? And when you get the job, and your
    boss dumps a 200000 line C program to you asking you to add a new
    client requested feature how do you expect to 'fake' it (this happened
    to me, fresh out of college with 0 years professional experience)?
    , Jan 12, 2006
    #8
  9. said:

    > Leo wrote:
    >> Dear All,
    >>
    >> I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    >> prove somebody's C skills.
    >>

    >
    > Yes, there is. It is called a degree, either Computer Science or
    > Electronic Engineering (Computing).


    Yeah, right. A few years - er, actually it was almost a decade ago, I was
    given the task of getting some CS graduate trainees up to speed on the
    systems I was working on at the time (C with DB2). All of them had honours
    degrees. All of them had only been hired in the first place because their
    courses had had a great deal of C content.

    Yep, you guessed it - the first thing I had to do was teach them C.

    --
    Richard Heathfield
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
    http://www.cpax.org.uk
    email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
    Richard Heathfield, Jan 12, 2006
    #9
  10. Leo wrote:
    > Dear All,
    >
    > I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    > prove somebody's C skills.
    >
    > I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C questions
    > which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions in the future job
    > interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate. But I don't know
    > if there is one.
    >
    > Thank you very much.


    If you can carefully search "Expert C programming" by Peter Van Der
    Linden, you will find one certificate. But then, the author expects the
    reader to crack some puzzels before you can *certify yourself* :)

    --
    Prafulla Harpanhalli
    Prafulla Harpanhalli, Jan 12, 2006
    #10
  11. Leo

    Chris Hills Guest

    In article <>, Nelu
    <> writes
    >> Dear All,
    >>
    >> I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    >> prove somebody's C skills.

    >There is K&R and other books to learn from.


    Though K&R 1 or 2 are both well out of date now and no much use for some
    areas of programming.

    >>
    >> I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C questions
    >> which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions in the future job
    >> interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate. But I don't know
    >> if there is one.

    >Learning C will help you answer questions about C. A certificate
    >may not be the answer. I know people that have different certificates but
    >don't know much anyway. You should learn how to answer the questions
    >not how to avoid them :). This being said, I have no clue if there are
    >specific tests for C certification but, if there are, someone will
    >undoubtetly answer. Stick around.
    >
    >


    --
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
    \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
    /\/\/ www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
    Chris Hills, Jan 12, 2006
    #11
  12. Chris Hills <> writes:
    > In article <>, Nelu
    > <> writes
    >>> Dear All,
    >>>
    >>> I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    >>> prove somebody's C skills.

    >>There is K&R and other books to learn from.

    >
    > Though K&R 1 or 2 are both well out of date now and no much use for some
    > areas of programming.


    K&R1 is out of date, but K&R2 is a good tutorial (and a decent
    reference) on the language as defined by the C90 standard. It doesn't
    cover C99, but then most implementations don't either (though support
    of some features such as long long is very common).

    K&R2 supplemented with some additional material on C99 and/or on
    whatever system-specific extensions you need to know about should give
    you a good understanding of the language.

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
    We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
    Keith Thompson, Jan 12, 2006
    #12
  13. Leo

    Guest

    Richard Heathfield wrote:
    > said:
    >
    > > Leo wrote:
    > >> Dear All,
    > >>
    > >> I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    > >> prove somebody's C skills.
    > >>

    > >
    > > Yes, there is. It is called a degree, either Computer Science or
    > > Electronic Engineering (Computing).

    >
    > Yeah, right. A few years - er, actually it was almost a decade ago, I was
    > given the task of getting some CS graduate trainees up to speed on the
    > systems I was working on at the time (C with DB2). All of them had honours
    > degrees. All of them had only been hired in the first place because their
    > courses had had a great deal of C content.
    >
    > Yep, you guessed it - the first thing I had to do was teach them C.
    >


    Excellent example of my advice: better hope the interviewer is not a
    regular here at comp.lang.c since neither a degree or 10 years of
    experience coding C impress them much.

    If you look around at comp.lang.c you'll find that people with years of
    experience programming C for a living sometimes gets it wrong, an
    honors degree means nothing to these people. A 'certificate' will mean
    even less.

    What people want to see is not what you have, but what you can do. So
    regardless of degrees, certificates or experience interviewers will
    always ask you to demonstrate the ability to code (though sometimes the
    questions themselves illustrates the interviewer's lack of
    understanding of C, sometimes invoking UB and ask you what the output
    will be).

    Some types of skill, such as human resource management, are impractical
    to demonstrate in an interview. So a degree/diploma/certificate is
    often used to judge such a skill. But coding and design
    (hardware/software) can easily be demonstrated on a sheet (or several
    sheets) of A4 paper. This is why interviewers will always ask such
    questions. The degree/diploma/certificate you have is useful only in
    getting you the interview. Once in front of the interviewer such
    qualifications are meaningless.
    , Jan 13, 2006
    #13
  14. Leo

    Nelu Guest

    On 2006-01-12, Chris Hills <> wrote:
    > Though K&R 1 or 2 are both well out of date now and no much use for some
    > areas of programming.
    >

    I still think that K&R is a good start to learn C. For programming,
    in general, there are other books, newer books, of course. But even
    here, Knuth is a good start :).

    --
    Ioan - Ciprian Tandau
    tandau _at_ freeshell _dot_ org (hope it's not too late)
    (... and that it still works...)
    Nelu, Jan 13, 2006
    #14
  15. Leo

    Guest

    Leo wrote:
    > I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    > prove somebody's C skills.


    No.

    > I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C questions
    > which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions in the future job
    > interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate. But I don't know
    > if there is one.


    Methinks you are missing the point. If you are unprepared to answer
    questions about C in a job interview, then you are also unprepared to
    program in it on the job. I don't see how a certificate would change
    this equation.

    --
    Paul Hsieh
    http://www.pobox.com/~qed/
    http://bstring.sf.net/
    , Jan 13, 2006
    #15
  16. Leo

    Chuck F. Guest

    Nelu wrote:
    > On 2006-01-12, Chris Hills <> wrote:
    >
    >> Though K&R 1 or 2 are both well out of date now and no much
    >> use for some areas of programming.
    >>

    > I still think that K&R is a good start to learn C. For
    > programming, in general, there are other books, newer books, of
    > course. But even here, Knuth is a good start :).


    Knuth is good for programming, but has absolutely nothing to do
    with the C language. K&R2 is probably unsurpassed for the OPs purpose.

    --
    "If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
    the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
    "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
    "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
    More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
    Chuck F., Jan 13, 2006
    #16
  17. In article <>, "" <> writes:
    >
    > If you look around at comp.lang.c you'll find that people with years of
    > experience programming C for a living sometimes gets it wrong, an
    > honors degree means nothing to these people. A 'certificate' will mean
    > even less.


    There may be regulars here to whom "an honors degree means nothing",
    and I doubt there are many regulars here who consider such a degree
    any sort of proof (or even evidence) of competence in C, but there is
    a world of difference between "not evidence of competence" and
    "meaningless".

    Some of us believe that formal education is quite valuable, and an
    honors degree from a decent institution something to be proud of,
    even if they are no guarantee of expertise in a particular area.

    --
    Michael Wojcik

    Even though there may be some misguided critics of what we're trying
    to do, I think we're on the wrong path. -- Reagan
    Michael Wojcik, Jan 13, 2006
    #17
  18. Leo

    Nelu Guest

    On 2006-01-13, Chuck F. <> wrote:
    > Nelu wrote:
    >> I still think that K&R is a good start to learn C. For
    >> programming, in general, there are other books, newer books, of
    >> course. But even here, Knuth is a good start :).

    >
    > Knuth is good for programming, but has absolutely nothing to do
    > with the C language. K&R2 is probably unsurpassed for the OPs purpose.

    I was talking about Knuth being good for programming in general not C.
    Is it possible to find K&R2 free on the Internet? I know you cand find
    K&R, but I don't know about K&R2.

    --
    Ioan - Ciprian Tandau
    tandau _at_ freeshell _dot_ org (hope it's not too late)
    (... and that it still works...)
    Nelu, Jan 13, 2006
    #18
  19. Nelu said:

    > Is it possible to find K&R2 free on the Internet?


    Not legally.

    > I know you cand find K&R,


    Not legally.

    > but I don't know about K&R2.


    Not legally.

    --
    Richard Heathfield
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
    http://www.cpax.org.uk
    email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
    Richard Heathfield, Jan 13, 2006
    #19
  20. Leo

    Guest

    Send me $1000 and I'll send you a certificate.

    Seriously now, just tell the interviewer you are a novice but a fast
    learner and ask for a chance. Tell all about the other languages you
    have conquered. The only way to learn a language is to use it.


    Leo wrote:
    > Dear All,
    >
    > I am wondering if there is any programming certificate in C which can
    > prove somebody's C skills.
    >
    > I just had a job phone interview. Somebody asked me a lot of C questions
    > which I was not prepared well. To avoid such questions in the future job
    > interview, I hope to take some kind of C certificate. But I don't know
    > if there is one.
    >
    > Thank you very much.
    , Jan 13, 2006
    #20
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